Should I leave my class?

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I'm doing a part-time sign language course at college - I LOVE learning sign language.

Since starting I've had problems with other students in class totally blanking me, as most of what we do in class is one-to-one or group work it means I'm being excluded, as well as not getting to practice signing I'm left sitting looking like an idiot, no one sitting anywhere near me and for all the class to see, I have to busy myself looking through a book to avoid looking more idiotic. This is very upsetting.

I let the autism support team know, they offer help but not sure what they could do - they can't force students to include me, the teacher could ensure we work in groups, but instead she leaves me excluded. I'm keeping-up but struggling, and obviously it's no fun.

Today was an exam - I was a little anxious but I'd have passed....if I'd taken the exam.
It's been a tough day, and I was then excluded again...the teacher tried to sign with me but she was disturbing my revision and I didn't want pitty or to be watched by other students. Other students mentioned ASD, along the lines of 'I've sort of known a few of THEM' and one said people with autism can't be trusted - she was joking, as it turns out her partner who is also in the class is autistic (you'd not know it), but not realising this I had taken issue with her comment (saying "excuse me?!") this meant I felt embarrassed and also confused as to why he's not excluded like me - I know, it effects people differently, but when you're distressed you don't consider that fact.

All this along with the fact I had to do this exam means I felt pressured and I had a meltdown.
Shaking like a leaf, stimming like a mental, I barely made it out the room before kicking off and breaking down in tears - I ignored my [deaf] teacher on my way out which was very rude, so I feel bad for doing that too - the meltdown has been some time coming, but today I just couldn't hold it back. Not sure what's going to happen about my exam.

I was DETERMINED to do this class as I've wanted to do sign language for years, I managed to get into a sign language class in another college last year but the job centre forced me to stop (they're making it difficult for me this time round too) so this was another chance, but every week it just gets worse and worse...purely because of this exclusion.
What do you think?

(hugs also appreciated, FYI)

Last edited by Bloodheart on 17 May 2011, 6:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

First off, it's okay to have a meltdown, it means you're human. So-called normal people have their issues and don't like being excluded, and get embarrassed (which one might think would mean they'd be sympathetic, empathetic, use their much-vaulted social skills, etc., etc. well, they don't very often, for whatever reason)

And kind of like the texture in a poker hand and a seeming 'mistake,' the meltdown can actually work in your favor. The part I quoted, that might actually give you an opening. You can let the autism team know what they might suggest to the teacher to include you (and notice you will then be practicing chief executive skills, and so be it!). This is the part to be a little bit strategic, write down some ideas, play with them, and then take something to your team. And it doesn't need to be perfect. A little bit count on them coming through on your behalf. Focus on what can be done positive from this point forward. Kind of give your team that open field.

(and I really think bullying and exclusion, for whatever small reason it starts, takes on a dynamic all its own. Unless responsible adults step in and matter-of-factly take things in another direction)

First off (((((((Hugs)))))))

It's great that you're learning sign language and saddening that the class isn't going so well. I'd love to learn sign language.

I'm guessing that it would be hard not to have a meltdown when things are being so difficult. The teacher should pair people up at least some of the time so that everyone gets some practice in conversation.

About what you should do regarding the class, I suggest you pretend a friend came to you with this situation and think about what you would say to her or him. If you can think about what you would suggest to a friend that may be a good guideline.

If I had your dilemma here, I would print two copies of this thread and then give them to your support team and teacher, respectively (and, of course, respectfully), and then let those people talk a bit and come up with some suggestions. And if that did not eventually accomplish something, I would print a third copy and take it to the administrative office and ask whether anyone there might have any comment/s or questions before you send a copy to a/the local newspaper.

Had this email from the AS/ASD support guy at college;

Breakdown? Not sure I like the use of that term.
Could be a simple misunderstanding, but still...huge difference between breakdown and meltdown.

I agree. Huge difference. And tell the guy that.

And leejosepho brings up a potentially good suggestion. Print out this thread or perhaps just your initial post and show the support guy. Maybe. Perhaps. Please trust your gut instincts regarding whether this feels right (something which I often remind myself).

You are not included in the class, and that would be a big deal to anyone, 'neurotypical' or not, on the spectrum or not, or a person different in different way! (no such thing as 'normal' anyway! )

And then, when the teacher tries to include you, she kind of does so in an ineffectual way that puts you on the spot. Why can't she just set up new groups for a new project and matter-of-factly make sure you get in a group?

See, this is what I don't understand - why can't she do this?
I'd have thought this was a fairly standard way of dealing with this sort of thing, if a student is being excluded then assign groups. In class we move all the tables back so we're sitting in a large horseshoe - this means a. when I'm excluded I'm all the more exposed, and b. everyone moves themselves into the same seats each lesson so friend groups stick together...so I'd think another possibility is mixing people up a bit.

And she might if asked. Going through autism support is a way of asking her in a more formal way.

In poker terms, she is underplaying the hand. She is doing something small, when she should be doing something medium or big (socially usually medium, poker sometimes big).

She might lack the skills! It took me the longest time to figure this out, that yes, 'neurotypical' people can have social skill deficiencies, too. So, autism support can suggest something (and also let her know that she put you on the spot even though she didn't intend to) and she can build on this positive suggestion.

And again, this is kind of where you are president of the corporation, as well as recepient, it loops back. You can suggest to autism support, 'And I think this will start making it a lot better situation,' they'll rely it to her, and then hopefully she'll just implement something that matter-of-factly works. Hopefully. None of this is guaranteed of course, but this may be your best bet (and this is something else I remind myself of in different ways).

(PS I recommend poker as a source of social skills, but not as an attempt to try and make money, primarily because of the statistically inevitable upswings and downswings and the fact that being 300 up for the week helps less than being 300 down hurts.)

I emailed ASD support guy to say I was okay to sit my exam tomorrow...but that the same issues remain so it needs to be addressed, and I mentioned the idea of the tutor putting people into groups to prevent me being excluded. I've just had the following response;

They feel...I feel differently. I'm prepared, so making me wait a few weeks just keeps things up in the air, but it's too late to argue with them. Not sure why he can't let me know what's happening about whether something is going to be done about class, if I have to wait for my exam I'm going to be attending class not sure whether I'm going to pass my exam, on top of everything else.

Not sure if by putting me in for a re-sit this means I only get one chance to pass, to me this email also sounds like they're putting me off, not being clear about what's going on - I'm half expecting the next email I get to say 'Sorry, we don't feel you should be attending this class any more', I mean is it just me who thinks that's how this email sounds? This email has just made me feel more stressed!

All this feels like a big drama, like I'm somehow being unreasonable...I really don't think I am!
What's the point in having student support if they don't deal with issues like these?

It's bureaucratic.

It's a clunksville answer that they have given you.

It is 'The' answer, rather than ping-ponging back and forth as part of a real dialogue and real conversation.

All the same, please try and think of it as an opportunity to educate your support person. For example, if it was me I might say something like 'I was ostracized. And I want you to understand that it hurts to be ostracized.' Well, this guy has had life experiences and he might think that he fully understands that he knows what it's like to be ostracized, and on a certain level he probably does . . . but, but, it's different when you're a person on the spectrum, I think it is.

So, it makes it tricky to have that back and forth conversation and still be respectfully. I can sometimes pull it off, and sometimes I can't. I tend to be more successful when I keep it short and rather underplay it as it were (not like my relatively long posts here at WP )

Okay, probably, there's no way for you to argue for an earlier test date without seeming like an unreasonable person. So, if you can, maybe think about the tact 'Okay, you think it's better to wait on the test, sure we're wait on the test' That might tend to disarm him. And you might point out that it disadvantages you by bunching it at the end, and Any way you might be able to arrange a tutor?

And this is one reason why I think longterm we need organizations that are staffed and lead by people on the autism spectrum and thus are self-advocacy.

In the meantime, when possible, I guess we can try and educate people.

There should not be a hard authoritarian rule against meltdowns. So, you had a meltdown, so what? No one likes being ostracized. Almost everyone, persons who are 'neurotypical,' persons who are on the spectrum, persons who are different in different ways, would find this stressful. And some people respond to this stress by drinking, other people by raging at family members. All things considered, I think a meltdown is unhealthier! But I guess it's different and it puts people off.

Maybe for your current support guy, you could say, 'I'd like to explain to you how I consider a meltdown different from a breakdown. A meltdown is . . [one sentence]. A breakdown is . . [one sentence]' Yes, I often get in trouble overexplaining, and making it too long and complicated. Or I think people listen to me less. And/Or I don't give them enough of a chance for that ping-ponging back and forth.

Now, as the dialogue goes along, the support guy might ask, well, what did you do to bring on the ostracism. This always bothers me, to me this is blaming the victim and it's a poor way for a person to approach something. I guess for some people it's an obvious question but I struggle finding a clear definite, humanistic, also respectful answer.

Okay, one answer, in Paul Graham's excellent essay "Why Nerds Are Unpopular," a girl in high school years later tells him that she liked nerds, wanted to hang out with them and get to know them, but she was afraid of being negatively labelled. And so she didn't. She did nothing about this unfair situation. It wasn't on her radar screen, at that point she hadn't even begun to have the skills. (will try and include a link to this essay)

I read a kind of recent newspaper article about a UFC fighter, I think his name his Georges St. Pierre (nickname GSP I think), at around age 13 he was bullied by bigger and older boys, because he was into marital arts and not hockey (?) (?). Yes, that's what it said, as irrational as it is, that's why it started off. And one lesson, if this guy can be bullied almost anyone can.

So, for whatever small reasons, either ostracism or bullying begins, there is an unhealthy group dynamic where it tends to continue and get worse---unless a mature and responsible individual steps in and redirects. And another group dynamic, it's much easier for someone else to step in and defend than the individual himself or herself.

Good luck. I'm sorry you are in this unfair situation. I hope you can continue to learn sign language. And I'm sorry your autism support guy is currently only giving you lukewarm support.

The part where you're afraid of getting another email saying '(formal) (formal) we've decided the class isn't for you.' Yes, I worry about that kind of stuff, too. If someone has half bailed on me, I don't really understand how far it goes and I feel kind of out at sea not having a feel for the situation and not understanding what's going on. The guy is suppose to advocate for you, not for the institution. Maybe he looks at it as negotiating between you and the institution. I'm not sure I like that either. One thing I've had success with is telling myself, they're unlikely to take it to the top, I can handle it if they do. Hope that helps some. Keep sharing with us here and hopefully we can work it out and make some progress.

Last edited by AardvarkGoodSwimmer on 19 May 2011, 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

from the essay Why Nerds are Unpopular by Paul Graham
http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html

“ . . . As well as gaining points by distancing oneself from unpopular kids, one loses points by being close to them. A woman I know says that in high school she liked nerds, but was afraid to be seen talking to them because the other girls would make fun of her. Unpopularity is a communicable disease; kids too nice to pick on nerds will still ostracize them in self-defense. . . ”

---------------------

And as unfair and as stupid as it is, this lousy group dynamic seems to happen all too often.

Resurrecting this one for follow-up.
AardvarkGoodSwimmer doesn't have to feel obliged to reply - although any input from anyone is appreciated

I had heard nothing back and it was class today so I emailed the ASD support guy to see if I should come in - he was out of office, by the time he had replied it was too late for me to get the email to know what was going on, so I missed my class.

I have a re-sit in two weeks time - still no clarification about whether this is my only chance at this exam - I can go in an hour before the exam to practice with the tutor...I don't want to do this, I'd rather just go in and do the exam to get it over with.

Apparently they're looking at putting extra class room support in place - I assume for me, and I don't know what this is yet...but I've specifically told them I don't need/want support - is it REALLY so hard for them to understand that I just want to be the same as others in the class? All they need to do is make sure I'm in a group like the other students.

It feels like they've just stopped listening to me...and it's just leading to unnecessary drama.

I don't really have anything constructive to say but I hope everything works out for you. I'm a primary (elementary) school teacher and I always specify if pupils are to work in pairs or groups who goes with who, and ask if anyone doesn't have a partner (in case their allocated partner is off sick or something). Obviously further and adult education is different but I think it should be easy enough to specify partners/groups, especially as (I assume) it is of benefit to have experience signing to or trying to understand as wide a variety of people as possible. I also think that any effective teacher should have a quick check to see everyone has someone to work with and is getting on OK with the task and to discreetly step in if not.

What kind of sign language are you learning?

Thank you for your reply

I've got some teaching experience, specifically in adult special education, and I'd say the same - it should be easy enough to specify partners/groups, I don't understand all this drama.

I'm learning British Sign Language

I can do a bit of Makaton signing but I think it would be really interesting to learn BSL. Good luck with your exam and I hope everything works out with your class.