I need math to go away and quit ruining my life.

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If it would kindly take participation classes along when it leaves, that would be great.


In every class not involving math or participation, I get A's. Last semester, I got a 76% in my math class, and I withdrew from my public speaking class. Explaining to the school that I'm not any good at this stuff never seems to help. They seem to feel I need to be "well rounded" whatever that means.

I'm now having problems with Math again, only this time I'm finding that I can't even be bothered enough to turn the homework in... I just don't want to do it anymore. But if I quit going, and I quit doing the work, they not only withdraw me from my math class.. but all my other classes as well.. even the ones I'm doing well in. They do this out of spite because I refuse to accept their fiction that this stuff actually matters to me.

No amount of tutoring, no amount of help, hand holding or explanations seem to help. I cannot get it through my head. It is impossible to have less than nothing of something. therefore, negative numbers are lies. You cannot have less than 0 in anything except on paper. If you go to trial, and you have no evidence, the trial is canceled, and the suspect goes free. You cannot go to trial, explain that you have less than no evidence, and then still proceed with the trial.. it doesn't work that way.

History, English, Biology, Geology, Geography, Religion, Philosophy, all these things I do extremely well at.. But Math. Ruins. My. Life. I had more meltdowns last semester than in the entire 8 years since I left high school. I've quit doing the homework because I'm tired of having meltdowns... If I don't get the homework done.. I'm going to wind up failing the class for sure, then I lose my financial aid, and my ability to take my important classes..

I just don't know what to do about this.. I can stare at it for hours and not understand how to do it.

you could try looking at -7 as a aplication rather then a number if we then have the sum 15+(-7) you could read it as fifteen plus the aplication of taking 7 away to form 8 15+(-7X5) could then be seen as taking 7 away from 15 5 times this would then leave you with zero for the third time you take 7 away theres only one left so you take the one away and are left with zero. to bypas this you could see the purpose of the sum not to find the eventual number but to find the eventual aplication. in this perspective 15+(5X-7) logicaly becomes -20 for then you don't see -20 as something that exists but rather something that would happen if you have a amount and would ad 15+(5X-7) not sure if this way of looking at it helps or is mathematicly correct but i'd be happy to try and explain it in as many ways as are necesary i'f youd like more explanation.

no no, those sorts of simple applications I can handle, so long as they are laid out like 15 + (-7)

What I have trouble with is when I'm supposed to Factor (AKA guess) what the -# is that fits the equation. I'm not abstract enough or something. I just don't recall combinations of numbers the way I can recall dates and locations and grammatical rules..

could you maybe type the kind of problem that you have problems with in mathemetical syntax?

It's too many different sorts of problems to give an example of them all.. The same flaw in my thinking keeps me from understanding a wide variety of problems. If I had to give an example it would be say.. 11th grade highschool algebra that I'm working on..

Lots of substitution and factoring.. graphing.. all that sort of thing

Say.. just a really base example

x+y=0
x-y=10

So you knock out the y's first
so you have 2x=10

then you have x= 5

But i'm supposed to get an ordered pair..

so then I have 5+y=0
and 5-y=10

My normal assumption is that you can't subtract anything from 5 and get get 10.. but the answer is of course -5 since 5- (-5) is the same as 5+5... I just can't remember to do that when I see the problem..

that is tricky if you don't see it... but you know its there you can see it maybe you should just try and practice or realize that you knock out the y by saying x=-y so x-y=2x=10 and then then fill 5 in instead of x in the origanl equatiton of x=-y so 5=-y so y=-5

yeah my problem isn't that I don't understand the concept, its just that I try to aspie logic the completely illogical abstract concepts needed to solve it.. and then it keeps me from being able to solve it.

the last section, was the exact same stuff, but without the guessing or abstract concepts.. and I murdered it.. But thats how I go with math.. some things.. I get.. and others.. i don't. the problem being.. becuase I really don't care about it, once I'm not required to do it.. I forget it.. and that leads to me testing really badly.

As someone who has struggle with math and eventually earned a minor degree in it utilizing my special Aspergian powers to compensate, I can tell you, you are probably having difficulty learning math because you are seeking help from people who never struggled with it.

Perhaps I can help you with it.



It sounds to me as if you are struggling with this concept because you view numbers as representing a quantity and you don't see how a quantity can be negative.

The - in front of a number does not indicate a negative quantity. You are correct in that you cannot have -5 apples.

In real world applications, the - represents either direction, or deficit. Using - to represent direction is common in physics when you have a situation in which something can move in one direction or the opposite direction.

For example. The direction to the right is usually called the positive direction. So the direction to the left would then be designated as the negative direction.

Imagine a game of tug o war. Let's say we have team A which pulls the rope in what we have assigned as the positive direction, and we have team B which pulls the rope in what we have assigned as the negative direction. If team A and team B pull in their directions with the same force, no one goes anywhere. We say the net force on the rope is 0.

If we assumed they each pulled with 5 newtons (a unit of force), then mathematically this looks like -5 (for team B pulling with 5 newtons in the negative direction), and +5 (for team A pulling in the positive direction).

We can actually sum the forces. -5+5=0

What if team B pulled in the negative direction with 2 newtons of force and team A pulled in the positive direction with 5 newtons of force. Team A is pulling harder so they win.

Mathematically, this looks like. -2+5=5-2=3 The 3 is positive so that indicates the rope was pulled in the positive direction.

What if team B pulled with 6 newtons of force in the negative direction and team A pulled with 5 newtons of force in the positive direction?

Mathematically this looks like -6+5=5-6 = -1 The 1 is negative so that indicates the rope was pulled in the negative direction.

This isn't as foreign to you as you think. If you have 5 apples and your friend gives you 1, your friend moves the apple closer to you to do that.

If you have 5 apples and your friend removes 1, your friend moves that apple away from the other apples. 5-1=4 apples left. You see, you have been using a negative sign to indicate moving something away from something else for quite a while now. You just never thought of it as an actual direction.

In finances, the negative sign can also indicate direction. For example, when your bank statement says

Deposits: $600, the 600 is positive and it means money was put into your account.
Withdraw: -$700, the 700 is negative and it means you took money out of your account.
Balance: -$100 Uh oh, you withdrew too much and you owe the bank $100

So a negative sign in front of a number doesn't really represent a negative quantity. The closest it comes is representing a deficit like that -$100 your bank account is short by, which some people think of as a negative quantity but isn't really.

In more abstract mathematics the negative sign in front of a number might not represent something that can be easily conceptualized. In that case I usually just think of them as place holders which indicate to me we have jumped out of the world of the real and will be back shortly with the right answer.

In lower math classes you work with negative numbers just to get used to working with them for actual applications later on.



Next time you have difficulty, PM me.

You seem to have trouble imagining what negative numbers might "mean".

Actually, you don't have to accept that negative numbers mean anything! It is possible to formally construct the concept of negative numbers only using the concept of positive numbers.

Here's how it works: a negative number is actually a pair of positive numbers.

Imagine that we have all of the positive numbers, and we call the collection of all the positive numbers P.

Now we define a whatever to be an ordered pair of members of P. We consider two whatevers (a,b) and (c,d) to be the same whenever
a + d = b + c.

We define addition of whatevers to work like this:
(a,b) + (c,d) = (a + c, b + d).

We define multiplication of whatevers to work like this:
(a, b) × (c, d) = (a × c + b × d, a × d + b × c).

It is possible to check that these concepts of addition and multiplication work nicely with the concept of "sameness" we defined before.

If a whatever looks like (a,b) where b > a, then it represents the positive number b - a.

If a whatever looks like (a,a), then it represents the number 0.

If a whatever looks like (a,b) where a > b, then it represents the negative number -(a - b).

Now the collection of whatevers, along with their addition and multiplication, represents the entire real number system: positive, negative, and zero.

Ugh, my Algebra teacher is AWFUL. I failed Algebra 1 last year so I have to take it again. I STILL suck at it. My teacher's INCREDIBALY rude to me like I mean to be this awful on purpose. Out of work with 10 problems I normally get 2 or 3 right.

Also, here's something that might make you feel better:

The fact that you are suspicious of the existence of negative numbers means that you are paying attention. If you really, really care about whether or not negative numbers exist, then you might have a very mathematical way of thinking.

When irrational numbers were first introduced, the best mathematicians in the world were suspicious of them and didn't think of them as "real".

When negative numbers were first introduced, the best mathematicians in the world were suspicious of them and didn't think of them as "real".

When nonreal numbers were first introduced, the best mathematicians in the world were suspicious of them and didn't think of them as "real".

This is in fact the origin of the term "real number" in mathematics.

In all three cases, mathematicians were forced to accept the new concept because it was formally constructed from old concepts. People found a way to formally construct irrational numbers using only the concept of rational numbers. People found a way to formally construct negative numbers using only the concept of positive numbers. People found a way to formally construct nonreal numbers using only the concept of real numbers.

I appreciate all the help Declension, but sadly all you are doing is confusing me more.

I don't think I have a very mathematical view of the world. I have a chaotic view of the world.. my view of the world is a cork board, covered in post it notes and push pins with string going between them..

It's like when we did some Geometry.. I was told to find the measure of the field.. why would I need to know the measure of a hypothetical field.. if it's a field.. get the tape measure lets go find out what its size is.. I mean.. I want to be an Archeologist.. you don't say something is something unless you dig it up.. and if you dig it up and don't understand it.. well.. by golly.. it was for a ritualistic religious practice now stop asking questions.

Well, at the end of the day, it is possible to just memorise the following rules, which will tell you what to do in any simple situation involving negative numbers.

x + (-y) = (x-y). (Use this rule if x and y are positive and x > y.)
x + (-x) = 0.
x + (-y) = -(y-x). (Use this rule if x and y are positive and y > x.)

e.g. 4 + (-3) = (4 - 3) = 1.
e.g. 4 + (-4) = 0.
e.g. 3 + (-4) = -(4 - 3) = -1.

(-x) + (-y) = -(x+y).

e.g. (-4) + (-3) = -(4 + 3) = -7.

x × (-y) = -(x × y).
(-x) × (-y) = (x × y).

e.g. 3 × (-4) = -(3 × 4) = -12.
e.g. (-3) × (-4) = (3 × 4) = 12.

x - (-y) = x + y.
x + (-y) = x - y.

This is true. It is also impossible to have fractional parts of some kinds of things.

It's perfectly reasonable to have 1/2 of a pizza. It doesn't make sense to have 1/2 of a person, because if you chop a person in half, they're dead, and no longer a person.

Fractions make sense, but not always. It depends on how you apply the idea to the real world. It's the same with negative numbers. I can't give you -3 apples. But you can be sent back 3 spaces in Monopoly, which is the same as forward -3 spaces.


Not quite lies. You could think of them as imaginary, though. In many cases, we can use negative numbers to make solving something more convenient, even though there are no negative numbers in the final answer.

For mathematicians, it doesn't matter whether something could exist really. It matters that they can think logically and consistently about it.

I don't do well with imaginary.. I mean if It's in the context of a Fantasy novel or something I can do it.. but this is being presented as a fact yet they can't really illustrate to me how it works using physical objects..

Math isn't about physical objects. Some things can be matched up from physical situations to mathematical ideas, and when that happens, those mathematical ideas will be directly useful. Some mathematical ideas can only be matched up with other mathematical ideas. That doesn't mean they won't be useful, though, just that they have to link up to something useful.

Negative numbers match up with subtraction, and subtraction matches up with taking objects away from a pile. Negative numbers can also be used with position on a line (which is both a physical concept and a mathematical one).

If you match them up with a line, then you still have to pick a starting point (where is zero?) and a direction (which way is negative?), and if I make different choices, I could put -3 at a different spot on the same physical line. But (-3) + (-3) = -6 on both our lines.