Graduate School - Class Discussions

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bethmc
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08 Nov 2012, 10:13 pm

I am an HFA female in graduate school who is constantly coming out of left field during class discussions. My fellow grad students will ask questions and make comments and, in my head, I'm definitely contributing to the discussion....but based on the reactions I get, possibly not.

Do I want to be someone different? No. I like me.
Do I want to think like everybody else? No. I like how I think - besides, my papers are different due to how I think differently from others, and I earn A's so I must be doing something right.

But I work better on paper with the written word versus in class with the spoken word.

However, class participation is crucial in grad school - it's up to 40% of my grade in some classes.
I need to be more mainstream in class and I just don't know how.
Have any of you had this problem? How did you handle it? Do you have any suggestions for me? Or should I just soldier on and depend on my written work to see me through?



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08 Nov 2012, 10:20 pm

Has the professor or TA actually told you that your class participation grade is suffering because of the quality of your contributions to the discussion?



bethmc
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08 Nov 2012, 10:27 pm

To my knowledge, no one has received any feedback regarding their participation.

I suppose I'm just concerned because I really want to participate, I just don't know how.
I don't understand where the other students are coming from half the time - I just approach things from a completely different perspective.



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08 Nov 2012, 10:38 pm

Maybe you should ask. Just because you have a different perspective doesn't mean your comments are not ok.



bethmc
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08 Nov 2012, 10:50 pm

Sometimes I think part of it is the speed of the discussion - I don't have time to process the information; it's only later, after class is finished that I begin to understand how certain pieces of the puzzle of discussion fit together.

One evening I left class after having nothing to say during discussion, then I got home and wrote my comments down, then took them to my professor's office hours the next day to basically join in the class discussion from the night before.

So I had pertinent comments to add to the discussion, and my prof was interested in hearing them, but I was taking them in completely different directions than those of my classmates.
So as open as my professor was to hearing my thoughts, I have a feeling I just would've gotten blank stares from my peers - which is often the case.

I suppose it's hopeless - it's not like this is a new problem - I just need to accept that this is the way it's always going to be and move on.



eric76
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08 Nov 2012, 11:41 pm

What is your major? In many programs, class discussions probably wouldn't matter much.

It's a little off topic, but I do know of one undergrad school where class participation determines everything -- St John's College in Santa Fe, New Mexico.



bethmc
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08 Nov 2012, 11:52 pm

I'm in a Master's program in History.

On all of the department's syllabi, Class Discussion/Participation is listed along with Essays, Tests, and Final Papers.
I'm honestly not kidding when I say that 40% of my grade is derived solely from participation in class discussions. It makes me damn nervous! 8O



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08 Nov 2012, 11:56 pm

If you think you are really suffering from it, and you have documentation of your AS, it could be possible to get academic accommodation. That way you can contribute if and when you want to, and your professor will take the diagnosis into consideration when giving you a grade.


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bethmc
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09 Nov 2012, 12:03 am

You have an excellent point.

I've just never asked for an accommodation before - it feels strange and I don't know why. I have documentation of my diagnosis and am registered with the Disability Services on campus, so it's helpful to have all of that already in place.

It's just very difficult for me to ask for anything.


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09 Nov 2012, 12:04 am

I can imagine.

I've had three math classes for which 100% of the grade was based on class participation. There was never any tests or homework.

The classes were undergraduate and graduate topology taught the "Texas Method" based on R L Moore's classes in topology taught at the University of Texas. In those classes, we were given a handout at the start of the semester (undergraduate) or year (graduate) that was our "text" for the year. It consisted solely of definitions and theorems. We would work on proving the theorems without any reference to outside materials and when we got something, we would present our proof to the class.l

From http://legacyrlmoore.org/reference/dancis_davidson.html:

Quote:
We now proceed to describe certain aspects of the Moore method. Under this method each student proves as many theorems and solves as many problems as possible by himself outside of class. For each theorem or problem, one student presents, at the blackboard, a proof or a solution that he devised by himself. Students are not permitted to discuss mathematics outside of class. The Texas method makes use of a competitive atmosphere. There is competition among students to impress the teacher and to solve more of the difficult problems than their classmates. Friendly competition spurs many students to work harder than they would otherwise, and occasionally to work above and beyond reasonable limits (i.e., to the detriment of other courses).

Students sometimes work on a difficult theorem for a week or more until someone finally proves it. In advanced courses some of the problems are open questions, and some of their solutions have become Ph.D. theses. Thus, the Texas method requires and tends to produce student willingness to work on problems for long periods of time. Considerable increases in a student's self confidence will result from his solving difficult problems.

We now present a brief description of blackboard procedures. In selecting someone to present a solution to the class, the teacher picks one of the students who claims to have already solved the problem by himself outside of class. Some teachers prefer to call on the weaker students first. (If a student is hot upon the trail of a theorem and doesn't want to see someone else's proof, he may leave class during the presentation.)

Suppose a student is presenting a proof to the class, and a mistake is found in the proof. If the student can repair the damage immediately - fine; however, the teacher does not permit the student to flounder at the blackboard while attempting to repair his proof. If the mistake in the student's proof can be corrected, the student is permitted to try again, usually the next day. However, if the student shows little understanding of the problem, the teacher might choose to send another student to the board to present a solution.

During a weak student's presentation, the instructor should be supportive. This includes helping the student clarify his [the student's] ideas and statements. Proper use of this system does not include the teacher embarrassing or actively discouraging the weaker student; he does not permit other class members to do so either.


Those were the toughest courses I've ever taken.



bethmc
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09 Nov 2012, 12:10 am

How very odd.

It's an interesting teaching method, but just the idea of math makes me break out in a cold sweat. :wink:
It's never been my strong suit, to say the least.

I suppose this method of instruction can really only work in math- or science-based classes. What do you think?



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09 Nov 2012, 3:20 am

Mainly math. In using the Texas Method, you trade off a breadth of coverage for a more in-depth coverage. You cover far less material, but at a much greater depth.

I think that it also really works only for the very best students. It gives them an opportunity to shine like in no other math course. For the good and average students, I think a more traditional lecture class is better.



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09 Nov 2012, 11:11 am

For some reason I find asking questions in class easy but working when the class splits into many groups hard. From what I had in undergraduate history I think it is the why that matters in your discussions. What I try and do is focus on the material not the reactions of the other members in class. Maybe read ahead so you have some idea where the lecture is going if there are journal articles or sources so you know where the class is going.



bethmc
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09 Nov 2012, 3:49 pm

In the particular class that's giving me so much trouble, there are no lectures - only class discussion. I wish the professor would lecture, but her presence seems to be more as a guide for our discussions, as opposed to lecturing on the subject at hand.

Reading ahead is impossible - just keeping up by the skin of our teeth is more the norm! (I speak for everybody in the class on this point because everyone has voiced these concerns):
We have at least one book per week to read, as well as any papers that may be due (which require outside research, thus more books to be read), or presentations to give (which also require outside research, thus even more books to be read).

And yes, I have positioned myself so as not to pay much attention to the other members of the class, but since there are only 11 of us and we all sit around a big table, this can be difficult.
Meanwhile, my focus on the materials just doesn't seem to "fit" with the main focus - this is great for my papers because I do come from a rather unique point of view, which is rewarded, but in class it continues to alienate me.

Realization: the more I whine about this, the more I'm tired of hearing myself whine about this - I'm not going to fit into group discussion, and I just need to be okay with that, and move on.

PS: Thank everyone for letting me whine about this, but it appears to be a lost cause. :roll:



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09 Nov 2012, 3:59 pm

Can you give some examples of what your saying that you feel people are annoyed by?

In history, as I'm sure you know, there are often two sides to a story, and we don't always learn the full story unless you dig deep.

I want to try to see if your ideas are out there out there, or just challenging people's preconceived ideas.



profofhumanities
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10 Nov 2012, 12:00 pm

bethmc wrote:
You have an excellent point.

I've just never asked for an accommodation before - it feels strange and I don't know why. I have documentation of my diagnosis and am registered with the Disability Services on campus, so it's helpful to have all of that already in place.

It's just very difficult for me to ask for anything.


Oh, this point is right to the heart of my current research. I think I can help you here.

According to the literature, and from what I am reading from the people who have shared with me for my dissertation, it is quite common for people with "hidden" disabilities to avoid asking for accommodations. Some feel they do better without them (and some of those do perform better without them), some just want to expereince college like other college students, and some really do not know why they do not ask for accommodations.

Depending upon your instructor, I propose a "compromise." Instead of following the long and rather complicated process of seeking formal accommodations, could you ask your instructor directly if he or she would be willing to receive your notes on the class discussions? Maybe you could text the instructor your input during class? Basically, go to your instructor with an explanation of how your ASD affects you in class and offer him or her some reasonable, easily implemented alternatives that would help show your true level of participation.

One caveat: Many college professors are NOT trained teachers. They know the material, but they do not always understand learning needs. Such an instructor may be prone to ask for the official accommodation paperwork.


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