Mech. Engineering student struggling with Calculus

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Turndown375
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09 Feb 2019, 5:03 pm

As the title states, I'm currently using my G.I. Bill to try to earn a Mechanical Engineering degree, however, I seem to struggle to a great degree with math. I know there are postings about this already, so forgive me for creating another, but I guess I'm just looking for some advice from someone who may have been in my shoes at one point. As long as I can remember I've struggled to grasp the concepts associated with math especialy algebra, but now that I'm getting into the college level maths (Calc1, Calc2 etc..) I can't seem to grasp any bit of it. I generally tend study for about 10-12 hours making literally no progress on any of the problems that I attempt. I watch numerous Youtube videos, read the book, consult with classmates, and even stay after with the tutors at my College and it doesn't seem to help me in the least. Now I know Engineering is basically all math related, but It is really the only subject I'm remotely interested in studying. Knowing how our brains work, I wouldn't be able to put forth much if any effort into another degree program, and I don't want to waste my G.I. Bill benefits for a degree I won't use to start a career in that field. I'm not the kind of person to quit and walk away from something before I've finished, but this is causing me a great deal of suffering. For a while I was seeing a therapist for well over a year to deal with depression, amongst other things, as a result so it is really effecting me negatively. For this reason I have been thinking I should just acceot the fact that I'm not smart enough, and walk away, but I know I would regret it forever. I am turning to the forum in hopes someone may have some advice on what I should do next whether I should suck it up and continue on, or if I should give up. Maybe there are other avenues I could take, or a different approach to learning Calculus. I'm kind of at my wits end here, so if anyone can help me out, I would really appreciate it.



jimmy m
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09 Feb 2019, 5:55 pm

Not sure I can help you out. How are you on trigonometry? That may be more important to mechanical engineering than calculus. When I was in college 50 years ago, there was an excellent book that I found useful. It was called "CRC Standard Mathematical Tables and Formulae". Here is a link. CRC Standard Mathematical Tables and Formulae I found this book to be very useful in listing almost all the formulas used in math.

I was going to suggest a tutor to teach you calculus one-on-one. But it seems like you are already doing this.

The thing about engineering is that it is a good career field.

If you have taken any engineering courses, how did they go? Did you do well? I would base my decision on whether to pursue an engineering degree more on the outcome of those classes than the math classes. Math tends to be theoretical. Engineering tends to be practical. It is a lot of hands on work.


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09 Feb 2019, 6:09 pm

There are different approaches to learning math. Some people are heavily visual. They find it easier to learn if everything is translated into pictures. Which can be done with calculus.



Turndown375
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09 Feb 2019, 6:10 pm

jimmy m wrote:
Not sure I can help you out. How are you on trigonometry? That may be more important to mechanical engineering than calculus. When I was in college 50 years ago, there was an excellent book that I found useful. It was called "CRC Standard Mathematical Tables and Formulae". Here is a link. CRC Standard Mathematical Tables and Formulae I found this book to be very useful in listing almost all the formulas used in math.

I was going to suggest a tutor to teach you calculus one-on-one. But it seems like you are already doing this.

The thing about engineering is that it is a good career field.

If you have taken any engineering courses, how did they go? Did you do well? I would base my decision on whether to pursue an engineering degree more on the outcome of those classes than the math classes. Math tends to be theoretical. Engineering tends to be practical. It is a lot of hands on work.


First off, thank you for your reply! Also, thank you for that link, I will check that out right now. The tutor has not helped much, but I suppose it could have been the tutors I have been using just werent good at teaching how I need to be taught? I agree, Engineering is a fantastic field, and I find it incredibly interesting. I have taken an Engineering course already, and got an A and my other Science related courses have all been B or higher. I'm in Physics right now, and I do fine with any of the practical and hands on stuff, but when we get to the calculations I get lost.

I started at Math 094 which was a lower level Algebra class and worked my way up to where I am now. Surprisingly, I understood Trigonometry with ease in comparison to how hard I have had to work with any other type of math. I should've failed Calculus 1 last semester but my professor wouldn't let me retake the course because he thought I was plenty smart enough to move on despite my repeated failure in his course. The problem is, since I didn't grasp the concepts in Calc 1 I'm now in Calc 2 and feel like I'm drowning.

I've always wanted to be an engineer and since I was a kid I took to the mechanics of things in general and as I got older, optimization came into play so combining the two as an engineer is right up my alley. Or so I thought... I'm great with practical stuff, but when it comes to anything abstract or theoretical I completely all apart. I know that if I were able to survive the math I could likely do very well as an Engineer, but my concern is that I won't be able to get past the required math courses.



Turndown375
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09 Feb 2019, 6:12 pm

BTDT wrote:
There are different approaches to learning math. Some people are heavily visual. They find it easier to learn if everything is translated into pictures. Which can be done with calculus.


That seems to be the case with me as well. If I were able to relate what is happening on the page to something I could see or picture at the very least, I'm sure it would help I just don't seem to be able to do so.



Prometheus18
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09 Feb 2019, 6:38 pm

What is it, specifically, that you struggle with about calculus? The central idea in calculus is the infinitesimal limit; once you've spent a large amount of time meditating on this idea, maybe things will fall into place.



Last edited by Prometheus18 on 09 Feb 2019, 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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09 Feb 2019, 6:38 pm

https://psrc.aapt.org/items/detail.cfm?ID=133
Visual Calculus
written by Lawrence Husch
designer: the Innovative Technology Center, University of Tennessee, Knoxville
This web site provides tutorials, drills, and computer programs in pre-calculus and calculus. It includes animations, interactive pages, step-by-step solution applets, and illustrations.

Resource found with a search on visual calculus. There are books as well.



Turndown375
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09 Feb 2019, 7:09 pm

Prometheus18 wrote:
What is it, specifically, that you struggle with about calculus? The central idea in calculus is the infinitesimal limit; once you've spent a large amount of time meditating on this idea, maybe things will fall into place.


Pretty much everything gives me trouble if I’m being honest. I was able to occasionally do some basic limits and derivatives last semester but that’s about it. I don’t seem to be able to retain anything number related whether it’s complex stuff or basic dates. Any time a fraction is introduced, or letters (especially Greek letters) I get completely lost.



Turndown375
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09 Feb 2019, 7:10 pm

BTDT wrote:
https://psrc.aapt.org/items/detail.cfm?ID=133
Visual Calculus
written by Lawrence Husch
designer: the Innovative Technology Center, University of Tennessee, Knoxville
This web site provides tutorials, drills, and computer programs in pre-calculus and calculus. It includes animations, interactive pages, step-by-step solution applets, and illustrations.

Resource found with a search on visual calculus. There are books as well.


Awesome, thank you very much! I’ll give this a glance.



Prometheus18
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09 Feb 2019, 8:01 pm

Turndown375 wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
What is it, specifically, that you struggle with about calculus? The central idea in calculus is the infinitesimal limit; once you've spent a large amount of time meditating on this idea, maybe things will fall into place.


Pretty much everything gives me trouble if I’m being honest. I was able to occasionally do some basic limits and derivatives last semester but that’s about it. I don’t seem to be able to retain anything number related whether it’s complex stuff or basic dates. Any time a fraction is introduced, or letters (especially Greek letters) I get completely lost.


Do you understand the concept of slope when it comes to linear equations (y = mx + c)? If so, it may be helpful to just view differentiation as a generalisation of this principle. The derivative of a function is basically just its slope at any given point, assuming that it's perfectly linear at that point. Once you've mastered differential calculus, integral calculus comes at once.

I don't understand why you'd be using Greek letters for elementary calculus, with the possible exception of theta (θ), but maybe it would help to learn the Greek alphabet by heart? You don't seem to have impaired linguistic ability, so this shouldn't be a problem. It helps to emphasize the fact that letters simply serve as placeholders in mathematics. Maybe revisiting the elements of algebra would help with this (things like solving 3x + 2 = 17 for x). Fractions, of course, are just division and should be viewed as such.

It might help if you presented one of your calculus problems to us, from a textbook, along with your attempts at an answer; we might then get a better idea as to where you're going wrong.



shortfatbalduglyman
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09 Feb 2019, 9:07 pm

Khan academy



Prometheus18
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09 Feb 2019, 9:11 pm

Yes, Khan Academy is very good for basic undergraduate stuff.



shortfatbalduglyman
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09 Feb 2019, 10:14 pm

You wrote that mechanical engineering is the only subject that you are interested in studying

However you could not have tried all of the subjects

Accounting

Trades:. Carpentry, construction, electrician

Take fewer units (do not know if GI bill allows it)

What branch were you in?

What was your military occupational specialty?

Maybe major in a subject related to MOS

What part of ASVAB did you score high on?



When I was 19, a career personality test matched my personality to 20 jobs. All of them in physics and engineering

The easiest, civil engineer

UCSD, structural engineering. Had a f**k load of a hard time

Gained 15 pounds in one quarter, stressing out

Academic probation, five quarters

Nightmare


A fifth year electrical engineering undergrad told me that if she were to have spent as much time as me, studying, she would have gotten straight A's

Got to Structural engineering 110b:. Solid Mechanics. "D"

In that school if you fail one class ("d" or " f")

You have to wait till the next year to take it again

In the meantime, all the other courses you were scheduled to take, has the course you flunked, as a prerequisite



Hire a professional tutor


Took the first two calculus classes, each 2x

The fifth one, three times and flunked


Emotional rollercoaster


:mrgreen:


Ritalin


Join American Society of Mechanical Engineers. See if your college has it

Meet upperclassmen

Get their old finals


Some schools have academic probation and impacted majors


Majors outside STEM require less homework (according to the school).


You wrote that you are not interested in any other subject, but social sciences and humanities involve a lot less work than mechanical engineering


And if the school Expelled you for academic probation (my situation) , you have nothing but sunk costs. Time, money and energy wasted.

That was when I was 22. Tried and failed to commit suicide over it (same explanation as you, but I am just civilian)


Now I am 35 years old and obsessive over it


Every single f*****g day



:roll:


Now I have a fear of failure and too lazy to do anything



Every situation is different


In some cases, persistence

In some cases, quit and do something else

It's splitting fine hairs




But seriously


Stress, strain, pressure, tension, compression, force


In summer school,

Statics

Five weeks long

Monday to Friday

Three hours class a day

Week three, midterm one

Week four , midterm two

Week five, final



:|


No TA


Instructor had official office hours, but I went and he barked at me so loud he scared me away


One student purchased the solution manual


The teaching assistant went over a problem with me

I asked if I could keep the paper

He said no and threw it away

And then I dug it out of the garbage




f**k structural engineering :!:



Turndown375
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10 Feb 2019, 7:57 am

Prometheus18 wrote:
Turndown375 wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
What is it, specifically, that you struggle with about calculus? The central idea in calculus is the infinitesimal limit; once you've spent a large amount of time meditating on this idea, maybe things will fall into place.


Pretty much everything gives me trouble if I’m being honest. I was able to occasionally do some basic limits and derivatives last semester but that’s about it. I don’t seem to be able to retain anything number related whether it’s complex stuff or basic dates. Any time a fraction is introduced, or letters (especially Greek letters) I get completely lost.


Do you understand the concept of slope when it comes to linear equations (y = mx + c)? If so, it may be helpful to just view differentiation as a generalisation of this principle. The derivative of a function is basically just its slope at any given point, assuming that it's perfectly linear at that point. Once you've mastered differential calculus, integral calculus comes at once.

I don't understand why you'd be using Greek letters for elementary calculus, with the possible exception of theta (θ), but maybe it would help to learn the Greek alphabet by heart? You don't seem to have impaired linguistic ability, so this shouldn't be a problem. It helps to emphasize the fact that letters simply serve as placeholders in mathematics. Maybe revisiting the elements of algebra would help with this (things like solving 3x + 2 = 17 for x). Fractions, of course, are just division and should be viewed as such.

It might help if you presented one of your calculus problems to us, from a textbook, along with your attempts at an answer; we might then get a better idea as to where you're going wrong.


I understand that slope measures the rise/run on a graph but im not sure what else that means exactly. I know we have used greek letters for summation, theta is obviously used, and in Physics we use quite a bit of greek letters in various equations. For the most part I understand what the summation is asking for, but when there are other letters and numbers placed ontop or below thats when things go haywire because there are so many letters and numbers to keep track of.

Basic linear stuff like solving for x I'm usually okay with, but again when there are frctions or radicals my knowledge of what to donext dissipates. I have a packet I'm currently attempting to work on in preparation for an exam in the morning tomorrow so I'll try to get a photo uploaded here after breakfast.



Turndown375
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10 Feb 2019, 7:59 am

shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
Khan academy


I've been using Khan since before I was even enrolled to try to brush up beforehand but that only got me through Algebra. With the tougher more abstract concepts of Calculus it doesn't seem to help as much. I've since turned towards Youtube in search of other potentially better resources.



Turndown375
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10 Feb 2019, 8:10 am

shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
You wrote that mechanical engineering is the only subject that you are interested in studying

However you could not have tried all of the subjects

Accounting

Trades:. Carpentry, construction, electrician

Take fewer units (do not know if GI bill allows it)

What branch were you in?

What was your military occupational specialty?

Maybe major in a subject related to MOS

What part of ASVAB did you score high on?



When I was 19, a career personality test matched my personality to 20 jobs. All of them in physics and engineering

The easiest, civil engineer

UCSD, structural engineering. Had a f**k load of a hard time

Gained 15 pounds in one quarter, stressing out

Academic probation, five quarters

Nightmare


A fifth year electrical engineering undergrad told me that if she were to have spent as much time as me, studying, she would have gotten straight A's

Got to Structural engineering 110b:. Solid Mechanics. "D"

In that school if you fail one class ("d" or " f")

You have to wait till the next year to take it again

In the meantime, all the other courses you were scheduled to take, has the course you flunked, as a prerequisite



Hire a professional tutor


Took the first two calculus classes, each 2x

The fifth one, three times and flunked


Emotional rollercoaster


:mrgreen:


Ritalin


Join American Society of Mechanical Engineers. See if your college has it

Meet upperclassmen

Get their old finals


Some schools have academic probation and impacted majors


Majors outside STEM require less homework (according to the school).


You wrote that you are not interested in any other subject, but social sciences and humanities involve a lot less work than mechanical engineering


And if the school Expelled you for academic probation (my situation) , you have nothing but sunk costs. Time, money and energy wasted.

That was when I was 22. Tried and failed to commit suicide over it (same explanation as you, but I am just civilian)


Now I am 35 years old and obsessive over it


Every single f*****g day



:roll:


Now I have a fear of failure and too lazy to do anything



Every situation is different


In some cases, persistence

In some cases, quit and do something else

It's splitting fine hairs




But seriously


Stress, strain, pressure, tension, compression, force


In summer school,

Statics

Five weeks long

Monday to Friday

Three hours class a day

Week three, midterm one

Week four , midterm two

Week five, final



:|


No TA


Instructor had official office hours, but I went and he barked at me so loud he scared me away


One student purchased the solution manual


The teaching assistant went over a problem with me

I asked if I could keep the paper

He said no and threw it away

And then I dug it out of the garbage




f**k structural engineering :!:


No of course I haven't tried all of the subjects, but it's the only subject i'm interested in studying. I contemplated Criminal Justice, Numerous medical programs, a few trade schools for mechanics, but they all seem to be more of a passing interest than an actual interest. Mechanical Engineering is always what I've been interested in since I was a kid, and for me anyways it feels right.

I was in the Army as an Infantryman in the 75th Ranger Regiment, which is a prestigious unit, but there isn't really anything I can do with Infantry skills as a civilian unless I do contracting work overseas again, or work for some kind of security company. That isn't really in my best interest though due to some of the injuries I sustained while I served. As far as I'm aware I can take as many or as few classes as I want under the G.I. Bill, the onmly limit is that I only have 36 months of benefits regardless of the number of credits I'm taking. So it's always in my best interest to be full time, at least to maximize my benefit. On the Asvab I did well across the board really, but the GT score, or general technical knowledge was definitely where I shined.

Regarding everything else, I feel you there. It's incredibly frustrating and demoralizing to spend literally your entire day studying a subject and not making any progress towards solving a single problem. Of course, on top of dealing with those frustrations I'm also dealing with various anger and depressiomn issues related to PTSD and such so it's a great time LOL. I'm gonna start looking into a more private tutor as opposed to the tutors at the school since they usually have 2-3 people to help at a time. I'm at a Community College for now, with plans to transfer if/when I make it through the program here. I'm on my 3rd year, but starting so far behind in the math courses is ultimately whay has been holding me up. I may look into the Civil Engineering path, as structures are interesting to me as well, but my true interest lies in designing and optimizing vehicles be it cars, aircraft, whatever.