Please I need your input/ insight

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I'm a Mom who likes to think outside the box. I want to understand where my son is comming from, and why he may be doing stuff.

I really believe if I can understand where Jake is comming from; then I can use that information to make things easier for him at school.

I just got a call from Jake's teacher about his behavior in class:

1. He stims in class by tearing up things into little pieces/ chews on his pencil /erasures and generally making a mess.
***** We tired to curb the mess by giving him a little kush ring, but he tore that up as well.
******He has seat cushion that would allow him some movement, but that hasn't changed things either...

Do you know of a different type item that can help calm Jake down without the mess?

2. When he's not paying attention in class, his other classmates are trying to get him on task by turning his page or re-directing him to his work.
****In return he's doing things to push them away( pushing their desk; putting stuff on them; even calling them names).
****I think his problems with classmates may subside if he could pay attention in class.
**** I'm not considering asking his other students to stop helping him unless they are doing it in a mean way. I will ask Jake about that

What is a good idea to make him participate & pay attention in class?
What worked for you?

3. In small groups he has become disruptive (evn more than he is in large groups)
******I asked -- he is not right next to someone but has space to spread out

What would be a reason why Jake is disruptive in the small setting ?
Any suggestions on what the teacher can do at this time?



Any other suggestions? Anything else that worked or could have worked for you?

Thanks for your help & input. I REALLY appreciate it

Roe

He needs time when people are being human and not working on him. Also, it is a hostile act to me when someone turns my pages for me or physically touches me or stuff like that. They need to not grab at him or his stuff if he isn't actually assaulting someone. That touchy-pushy stuff is just wrong.

Some more Q's in that case.

If I get to make sure that his space is protected, then his behavior towards other students should improve?

How could I get him to stay focus in the classroom??

Do you think he disrupts in small group because he does not have a defined space?

Sorry for asking so many q's, but I'm planning on using this info when I advocate for any changes... it may help

Roe

If his space is protected and students respect it, I think his behavior will improve. Any normal human has the right to that protection regardless of whether he is daydreaming or staring out the window. This may just be me personally, but I think it's true that you won't be able to do much about him being bored and you shouldn't have to. We still need to not have other students reaching in without permission, grabbing at him, and if they can talk to each other quietly as friends and work it out, that's good.

When I was in a special class I made my own space for a few minutes and did my own thing. I did some puzzles in the newspaper, solved the cryptoquiz, and then I was mentally ready to do whatever activities we did. That was probably the best semester I had in high school. Even five to ten minutes made a huge difference. Why so? Because the first activity in the morning needs to be a quiet time, rev up at your own pace, get ready for the day sort of activity without being yanked around. Some people are just better at this than others but it is a skill that can be taught.

Something has to go on that is not the school trying to forcefit your child into a certain mold. Tend to his skills as much as possible. Make sure he reads and does math at his level and that he has some history and languages. There are ways to progress without being pushed or driven.

I think he disrupts in small groups if they are grabbing at him trying to direct him, or if they are deliberately just pestering him. There aren't any easy ways to solve that. When you and he can get together and decide that you and he are going to accomplish these things, you can make progress, and there does have to be a lot of, in my opinion, keeping the other children's grubbies off of him.

Last edited by Remnant on 29 Nov 2005, 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Since you like to think outside the box, I'll go there:

A simple question: do you honestly think your son is disruptive or disturbed? Is he disrupting the class on purpose, or not participating on purpose? If yes, he needs to see a professional about that.

But it doesn't sound like you think he is. And if he isn't, then why should be participate and pay attention in class? I'm dead serious. Innovative minds ranging from Thomas Edison to Tim Burton and Albert Einstein to Winston Churchill have found the tradition classroom experience torture and went their own ways, and they all thanked the people who allowed them the freedom to go there. It wasn't part of their nature to go with the flow that way.

The idea that we should sit still and pay attention is an uninvestigated assertion that schools foist on us all, and they try to scare parents into believing it through the implication that our children will end up poor and stupid if they can't sit and behave and color inside the lines like sweet little Anna in the corner there. That's baloney. The richest man in the world dropped out of college, and the most successful movie director ever couldn't even get in to film school.

I don't know what's right, but I would encourage you and the school to focus on what your son really is, rather than devising methods to trick him into being what they want him to be. Forcing him to conform will just teach him to be submissive to a system that doesn't serve him well in the first place.

You may want to look at radical alternatives, including home-schooling, schools for alternative learners, etc. That way, your son may calm down and reintegrate into the mainstream or he may not. But at least he'll be living an authentic life, and that is the one sure path to success.

GroovyDruid said it better than I could so I'll just add three minor points...

...why is the mess a problem? Seriously.

...are you sure he isn't paying attention. My son looks out windows to block the sensory input he would get by looking at his classmates moving around. That way he can concentrate on what he is hearing and remember and learn it BETTER than if he were looking at the white board or at the teacher.

...putty is generally the stim matter schools use. At least in my district. Its called therapic putty and it comes in all colors. Even some that changed color when your hands work it (based on heat, no doubt.) Would this work for him?

Jakesmom, let me add a little: Jake needs to be rewarded for acquiring the skills he needs and passing his classes. I think that you mentioned that he has been relieved of the need to do homework. I'm not a big fan of homework, but I wish there was some way to get him to work on his essential skills in bite-sized steps and that you could see him do it and work with him. If he could take a week's progress at a time to the teachers and you meet goals each week this would be a very good thing. There aren't that many things to learn in a lot of these classes. There is a lot of repetition past the point of pain. There are also teachers who can take children his age who can barely speak English and have them doing calculus in two years without strain. Remind me if I forget, but I will try to have a name for you tonight or tomorrow (he was a guest on Coast to Coast AM). If you can organize something like this and follow through it might be an excellent device for getting them off his back. An organized, consistent, relaxed approach should work wonders especially if you can keep it going for years at a time. Your school sounds like they are way too ready to churn things around every few weeks.

I was torn up by the school system when I was way ahead of my classes on all subjects and frankly, my English classes were just plain dumb. They didn't contribute anything to my learning that was ever to be useful until I got to college, and a person who can't write a 1000 word essay off the top of his head by college (I couldn't) has not been educated in English at all. Every class he had after spelling was wasted, a thousand hours or more of nothing. You might notice that I've already written a thousand words in this discussion thread and most of them were spelled correctly, with fairly good syntax. It is a skill and it takes practice. You can't do it when someone's pestering you or jumping down your throat. The fantastic results come from years of practice when a person can sit down quietly and actually do this stuff.

It also wouldn't hurt to check out www.superlearning.com and look for the book "Superlearning" by Janice Ostrander.

Beebee, you're right. I can hear what people are saying a lot better if I get that vacant stare thing going. That's when I actually am listening. I usually go deaf when I am reading or writing, not to the point that I won't hear a fire alarm, but I won't know what anyone said.

I'm not really sure how to explain this really... so hold in there... But when I was a kid I would not listen to anything in class I was not interested in. When one word was spoken (that I was interested in) I'd harp on that. Bring up other subjects I was interested in. I would not pay attention. Look around. Get up. Leave the classroom to go look for more interesting things etc... I dont really know what to say or what helped. I dont have a good memory. Some things I know about myself now though are that I'm more of a one on one person. Will only learn what I want and am more of a hands on / visual learner where I can actually do the thing instead of read about it.

So, my suggestions are to try to adapt what hes learning in a more hands on enviroment and find a way that it can relate to something hes interested in.

Thanks guys.. I took a lot of notes...

Some suggestions (as in home schooling/ school for alternative leraning) is kinda impractable at this moment. I'm in law school in the evenings/ study while Jake is at school... I actually quit my job to have time w/ Jake right after school (before I go to class). As a result I don't have the funds to place him in an alternative school. I know there's one, but considering it cost more than my law school I really cannot afford it.

So I have to work with the school to help meet Jake's needs. I've been butting heads w/ the system since Jake was 3, so I know I need have to be prepared for the meeting. However, that said, I think I have a great teacher working with Jake this year-- who's open to new suggetsions & outta the box thinking.

Ya'll are right-- there really shouldn't be an issue about him not paying attention & making a mess. I'll also need to look into finding putty, and what we can do about kids touching Jake. Although he said that he liked the help & needed it, I'm not sure because of how he said it. Like it could have been an agreement just to agree. I think I just need to observe him at that time to see how he reacts.

Remnant, Jake does have to do homework-- but to be honest -- I really like our time together working on it. Also have you ever tried any of the learning tapes @ the superlearning site?

I do appreciate all ya'll's input. I'll be checking back if anyone else want to add anything.

Thanks again

Roe

It helps a lot if you both enjoy the time spent doing homework together.

I haven't tried the tapes, no. I was tempted to order them but they didn't have anything I needed.

This might seem a little odd, but try using silly putty or some type of clay for him to fiddle with in his hands. That has always helped me pay attention in various classes and quit clicking my pens, which gets really annoying.

I think the other important thing is that parents should really take a genuine interest in their child's schoolwork and personal life. Not being nosy or anything, but just ask him how his day went, what he learned when he comes home from school.

Other people have said that they don't think the mess is a problem, but I disagree. First, he has to share a classroom with his teacher and other students. It isn't really fair to the other people in the room if he is making a mess. Second, if a student is making a mess on his desk by ripping paper etc. it will distract other students from their work and distract the teacher from presenting the lesson. Third, it's not fair for him to make a mess like that if the teacher or janitor has to clean it up.

If he stims by tearing things, putty might be a good idea. He can pull it apart and then put it back together again. That will probably help with the mess. Also, putty is silent so it won't distract the other students and the teacher.

This ones are a bit more difficult. It is not the responsibility of other students to keep him on task, it is the school's and parents' job. Is there some sort of group he can go to for part of the day for students who need a little more help? For another possible option, maybe you should see if the school could provide some sort of tutor/assistant to help him in class. When I was in public school (I'm in college now), there were special needs students who were integrated with the rest of us for some or all classes depending on their ability in an average classroom setting. When they were in class with us, they amost always had someone helping them understand the directions, keep them on task, work with other students, etc. If that is possible, that might be the best option.

If I were you, I would tell them that it is normal for him to act like that because he has AS.