Working with Asperber's in a co-worker. Please help.

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I am at wit's end dealing with a co-worker of mine that has suddenly out of the blue made the claim he is an aspie. I hope you can all help me understand the situation a bit better. First off, let me tell the whole story. I apologise if it is long, but I want you to know what is going on so you can help me.

It starts a few years ago when this coworker of mine, let me call him Jove, came into my office before we worked together looking for his professor, whom I work for. Instead of sitting down like he was asked he immediately started poking at my things in my office, then asked me what my sexual preferences and orientation were. Without ado, I kicked him out of my office telling him quite bluntly that it was extremely offensive that he would ask questions like that. I saw Jove a few more times over the course of the term, each time he would stalk me across campus on my way to classes, work, or where ever until I threatened to call the police on him. (Never once during this time did the word Asperger's ever come up.)

A few years later, he walks into the professor's office and begs for a job. He explains at length that if he doesn't get a job, he will be deported because his government wanted him to move forward if they are going to continue to pay for him. Everyone thought the professor was a fool for hiring him knowing full well that he would be disruptive, belligerent and crass. (Again, no mention of Asperger's at this time either.)

I worked with Jove in the same room for about two months before the professor lost his temper with Jove. At the time, Jove didn't bother me too much other than he was louder and more obnoxious than a four-year-old throwing a tantrum most days, such that I was forced to leave and seek peace and quiet elsewhere. I didn't raise any serious objections to Jove's presence until he started stalking me again, being very demeaning, and insinuating that I'm a b***h, and lying about me every chance he got. (I got the feeling he was trying to impress the professor, and make up for the fact that he did nothing but search the Internet, watch YouTube, and various other Internet activities. Again, no mention of Asperger's either at this stage.)

We had Jove removed to a different room so he wouldn't be so disturbing to all of the graduate students that worked there. In the last week, things got seriously drama-tastic. Jove got a master key from the office, and started walking in and out of the lab I work in (with a couple other people that I'm in charge of), making a lot of noise. All of us left, but told the professor why we were leaving. The professor told Jove to stop it. Jove then said in an email that we were all selfish, humiliated him every chance we got, and that we should give him an apology. He then declared that he has Asperger's, which makes us all very selfish in his eyes. (I was forwarded the email so I would understand what drama was coming my way since this all falls onto my shoulders.)

In all honesty, I had never heard of Asperger's before, so I was curious what it was and how it would affect a working relationship. Honestly, in the limited amount that I've observed him, I've not seen any of the signs of this disorder that are listed on R. Kaan Ozbayrak, MD site (aspergers[dot]com). While he is in the other room, he talks and chats with all the other students in that room without a problem as long as they are there. He is very animated when talking to others. He is no more clumsy than I am. He can get narrowly focused on some tasks, but then again so can most people with ADHD or ADD that I've known and worked with in my life. Heck, reading down the list I could qualify for at least half the requirements, but I don't think I have Asperger's.


There is one other fact that has been bothering me. In a detailed personal conversation, Jove admitted that he grew up in a well-to-do family in Kuwait and felt stifled, so he came to a university in America to get away from his parents. It has preyed on my mind for some time that he read about Asperger's in Wikipedia and decided like it was a great cop-out for being a jerk to all of us that needed him to be quiet and didn't have the time to talk to us. After all, it isn't like we are the type to be completely insensitive to someone that has different patterns and habits - all humans do.
So, I am asking all of you for your opinion and help. From what I've been able to tell you, does it sound like Jove has Asperger's? And, if he does, how can I better work with him and help others work with him?

Thank you all very, very much. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the insight and help. Also, please don't be offended by the poll. This is so I can readily see if I am being presumptuous about the situation.

Sounds to me like this Jove is just being an ass. The only way that this could be aspergers is if he is somehow locked in a permanant state of sensory overload. but that would not explain the stalking.
I do not mean to sound racist or generalist, but middle eastern men are usually not known for their positive attitude towards women and womens rights. The middle eastern culture has a reputation for repression and abuse towards their women, and if Jove comes from such a background, he may have trouble accepting that such practices are not acceptable elsewhere.
In a way, aspies and NT's have that much in common - the inability to understand the perspective of others.

Re your comment about the diagnostic criteria, please be aware that textbooks will only convey the quantifiable symptoms. There is a lot more to an aspergers life than that. Common side effects of AS include severe depression and ptsd. It has a history of being misdiagnosed as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, add/adhd. To get a better idea, read some of the posts relating to coping etc.
I do not mean to sound critical of you or bossy etc, but to many people think of aspergers as being one of those wishy washy syndromes that is simply an excuse for bad behaviour, which is something that I am determined to clear up at any chance.

Hope things settle down for you

I don't know what his problem is, but he's certainly a jerk.
Aspies are usually the victims, not the perpetrators.

The fact that he didn't mention Aspergers doesn't mean anything. Most of the people around here say that it's usually a bad idea to mention it unless absolutely necessary.

It sounds like there's something going on that, to him, is so obvious he doesn't see a need to say it out loud. Maybe some delusion that wouldn't make sense even if he did try to explain.

I do feel sorry for him, but I don't think the current situation is helping him.
Is there any way to get a counselor of some kind involved?

There's going to be a lot of people making false claims about having Asperger's, we're already seeing it in the courts. It's the new gay. I think you are right to be sceptical, it sounds like you've put a lot of effort into looking into the criteria as it pertains to your colleague. Have you looked at the criteria for 'sociopath'? It may suit better.

[quote="Postperson"]There's going to be a lot of people making false claims about having Asperger's, we're already seeing it in the courts. It's the new [i]gay[/i]. I think you are right to be sceptical, it sounds like you've put a lot of effort into looking into the criteria as it pertains to your colleague. Have you looked at the criteria for 'sociopath'? It may suit better.[/quote]

He does not sound like a sociopath to me. While they can be destructive towards themselves and others, they are usually well liked and sometimes even charming.

I still say this Jove guy is an ass plain and simple. I dont think there is anything wrong with him.

Nah, he's not a sociopath. I would think they would be smoother, more subtle, so that you can't easily pin down the problem. This guy was a jerk from day one.
But there's certainly something very wrong with him. How about a border-line personality?

You guys have been very, very helpful. Though, I feel I've just scratched the surface with what I can do to make the working place easier for all the people, really.

I did read through much of the forums and articles before signing up for an account so I could try to understand on my own. I don't want you think that I am mean for saying this, but many of you sound like any other person I've met. A lot of people get depressed, seem like they have ADHD or whatever. It is something I thought everyone would likely have some sort of inclination to have. I called it being human, not having some disorder. I don't want to seem like I'm belittling any of you since I'm thinking about this from my own viewpoint. If someone around me has Asperger's, I should be able to work with them with no problems at all.

I realised that Jove not saying he has Asperger's before would mean anything really, other than it just seemed to be an outburst at a moment when he was cornered in another lie. I don't tend to tolerate that sort of behaviour in anyone when I can help it.

I am disappointed that people could really claim to have this disorder without having it. To me that is low of them.

All of this has left me a bit more confused. I don't know what I should do with this information, as it backs up what the other people in the office (other than the boss) have also stated. It is quite disheartening to realise that there is no way we could probably work around this man. Taking into consideration that we work with another guy from Saudi Arabia who things Jove is a disgusting pig, I don't even begin to approach the issue in my own head from a cultural stand point.

Thank you for your advice, good wishes, positive outlook, and reaffirming what I had already gathered about the folks here - you are all very nice to a stranger needing help.

You're right. Without a co-morbid, Asperger's shouldn't be a disability at all. In a perfect world... Unfortunately, most people just won't leave it alone, and create problems. Being black or gay or female shouldn't be a disability either, but people make it one and create barriers. It's more a civil rights issue than a medical issue.

Still, your co-worker does have a serious problem. I just don't know what it is, and I don't know what you can do to help him.

First off, this is only my opinion.

Aspies tend to miss 90% of social cues and therefore it is impossible for us to be team players. We are generally conscientious and competent as employees but due to extreme inability as team players, are often fired from jobs because of it. We tend to be honest to a fault and fail to register when people are joking or making fun of us, until it is too late. We don't do well with small talk, many of us are totally incapable of it. But most of us have special interests which we can monologue on about for hours without noticing we are boring people to tears.

Most of us have overly sensitive sense perceptions. Loud noises and other stimuli can cause sensory overload and incapacitation, as well as intense distress and/or pain. For many of us, social situations are unpleasant and we therefore tend to be loners. We find it difficult to maintain and keep friends. For many of us, getting along with people is a severe challenge.

If Jove's work is competent but he is not a team player, those qualities would lend credibility to his Asperger diagnosis. On the other hand, dishonesty and stalking would tend to disqualify the diagnosis.

Sadly, he is not competent. It took me over 10 times longer to train him that it did the next slowest person in the lab. I thought I was just explaining it wrong, but even after several tries of explaining things differently I still failed at my job. Oddly, the professor would explain it in the same way I had, and Jove would understand perfectly. I don't know if it was because I'm female and he didn't want to listen or if I just suck at explaining simple mechanics of using an Excel file for data entry that much.

I had gathered that many aspies (is it OK if I use that term? It is quicker to type out than the full name.) have problems picking up on social cues from my three day research. Jove doesn't show this sort of behaviour at all and at any time with anyone. He is quite sharp to pick up on it, actually. Quicker than I am, which I'm ashamed to admit. A lab manager should be quicker to pick up these things.

Jove is also very, very good at a two way conversation. He is seen nearly constantly talking with people in the hall. It is one of the reasons why the professor gets angry with him - he isn't working.

Thanks for the tip on the team player bit! If I do ever get a chance to work with anyone that has Asperger's, I'll remember that. Is there a way that I can work around it? Will a gentle guidance work, or is it like most people where it depends on the person?

People with asperger's syndrome are generally shy, and to have this guy just randomly ask your sexual orientation without really knowing you really tells me he's just a dick. I can't see him on the spectrum.

I'm glad I'm not going to be called out as being an insensitive jerk from that comment. It does make me sad to hear that it is a problem though. It shouldn't be. Now that I'm aware of things, I feel more enriched, not like it should be a barrier. People are very pathetic for acting the way they do with things of this nature.

@ 886: Thanks. Also, your signature makes me giggle.

Rhea, one thing I want to say at this point is that I (and no doubt many others) greatly appreciate the fact that you are willing to consider and learn. The majority of humans I have met are either narrow minded or incapable of learning. This fact alone gives you brownie points with me

Re your comments about how the criteria could fit on anyone. The criteria and the simplest way of explaining autism and aspergers is by far to simple to accurately explain. its like someone saying that a colour is red when there are so many shades and varieties of red.

Imagine for a moment that you have been transplanted with no training or assistance in a completely different country like africa or the middle east. you do not speak even a scrap of the language, all you have to get by with is charades, and you have to try to read shakespeare to one of the locals. you make a gesture that to you means something completely harmless but causes great offence to them. add on to that, you have a massive headache and someone keeps banging a loud drum right next to your head. Understandably, this all adds up to make you one very confused grumpy individual, and maybe even a bit depressed when you get thrown in jail for said offence that was not even your fault. Now try holding down a job with all of the above going on.
This is how many aspies and auties experience day to day life. Of course not everyone is this severe, but this was just an example anyway.

Depression and other similar comorbids are a side effect of the general autie/aspie state of being. In my case, extreme depression and a mild form of ptsd has resulted from years of losing job after job because of ingorant inflexible people who decide that I do not fit their idea of what a good worker or a good person should be.

Many aspies and auties that are given the chance and the right environment usually turn out to be very hardworking, flawlessly honest, and severely loyal to those who treat them well. Given that the majority of NT's seem to be lacking these traits as well as common sense sometimes, aspies generally do not fit in very well in a lot of situations.

I personally do not mind others using the nickname 'aspies' etc, it is much quicker to type and flows easier.

As to what you can do if you ever end up working with one of us. All I can offer from a generalistic view is to be clear in what you say and do, dont expect them to read between the lines, dont assume they are stupid just because they dont understand (that is something that I get a lot that drives me nuts). If they are having a bad day, dont assume that you have caused it and get defensive, but consider what else may have happened and what potential environmental factors there are. Dont assume they are being rude because they are not paying what you feel to be 100% attention to you (many are capable of multi tasking and often can focus better if they do not have to be distracted by looking at your eyes). Dont assume that just because you find them doing something other than standard that they are not doing their work the way they are supposed to, judge that by how much work they get done by deadline.

Everyone has different habits, triggers, tolerances, solutions, and ideas. Think outside yourself and you will no doubt get on well.

We can be shy in general, but when around people we are comfortable with this all fades away and the real person comes out.

Also, having an aspie for a friend can be an interesting but very rewarding experience. Particularly if you have an interest in common.

Last of all, feel free to pass all this on to others. The more who know the reality of it, the better.

Not that I'm an expert in all things Asperger, but I doubt the person you describe has AS.

First, the whole stalking incident does not sound like AS. Asking about your sexual preferences could have been attributed to AS, but that he followed you until you threatened to call the police tells me that this could be a person with significant psychological problems, and AS is not the cause...even if he has AS.

Second, you describe this person with.... "He explains at length that if he doesn't get a job, he will be deported because his government wanted him to move forward if they are going to continue to pay for him" and "Jove didn't bother me too much other than he was louder and more obnoxious than a four-year-old throwing a tantrum most days, such that I was forced to leave and seek peace and quiet elsewhere. I didn't raise any serious objections to Jove's presence until he started stalking me again, being very demeaning, and insinuating that I'm a b***h, and lying about me every chance he got. (I got the feeling he was trying to impress the professor, and make up for the fact that he did nothing but search the Internet, watch YouTube, and various other Internet activities...."

Third, you discovered "In a detailed personal conversation, Jove admitted that he grew up in a well-to-do family in Kuwait and felt stifled, so he came to a university in America to get away from his parents."

Now, I might be reaching here, but I will make this general assertion against Kuwaitis....

In the late 1990s, when Kuwait was invaded by Iraq, most all the Kuwaitis went into exile...few stayed behind to fight. Kuwait was so wealthy that the Kuwaitis in exile received benefit checks from the deposed government to support them while in exile. It was also established that the propaganda used to sell Americans on the idea of invading to "liberate" Kuwait was fully funded by the deposed Kuwaiti government. While a few Kuwaitis did serve on the battlefield and went in with our troops, the vast majority of Kuwaitis sat back, lived the good life and let others do the fighting and dying for their benefit.

That "Jove" comes from a well-to-do family and has a pathetic work ethic (contrary to your average person with AS) tells me that he is a spoiled little b***h that is used to getting his way and throws a tantrum whenever he doesn't get his way.

More so, I suggest you deal with "Jove" as a department. I would begin accumulating hard documentation to justify his termination from the university. He's thrown down the "disability" card hoping it will insulate him should he be disciplined or terminated, and that means he's a skilled manipulator. That alone is something to be concerned about, but coupled with his inclination to stalk you on more than one occasion is reason enough to get rid of him while you can.

I am sympathetic to the hiring and promotion of people with disabilities, but I'm also disgusted by those who will claim to be disabled (who are not) or those that deliberately will milk a disability so they don't have to work when they clearly can work...they just don't want to.

Good luck dealing with this situation.

From what you've relayed, I doubt this guy has AS. He might be a sociopath, but he's not AS from the situation you are describing.

I find it interesting that a few of you have mentioned "sociopath" in this. I am slightly taken aback by that because I, myself, am diagnosed as a borderline sociopath because I conditioned myself to not feel anything. This was mostly a personal choice to survive an upbringing with my mother. I hope I'm never as threatening as any of you would see a sociopath since I'm trying very hard to get along with the rest of the world now that I'm out of her sphere of influence.

Lessian, thank you for the insight of how to deal with people in general, not just Aspies. In general, unless I'm having a bad day myself, the advice you give is how I try to interact with anyone. Thankfully, my self-conditioning to try to be rational instead of reactions of emotions has led me to this on my own for the sake of a better working condition all around.

Your description of what an Aspie might feel on the extreme end makes me think. How would outside noises - such as other work stations having music that the person doesn't necessarily like? Our professor has a rather delightful habit of playing classical music loudly when he works. It took all of us time to get used to it. But, if someone that had felt like they had "a massive headache and someone keeps banging a loud drum right next to your head," how could we know what they need if they don't tell us?

I automatically assume that someone with Asperger's won't say it outright now thanks to what I've been reading here. In a way, I think it is a shame because I'm no mind reader, but would like people to feel as comfortable and as relaxed as they can in their environment. Stress is no fun, and no one should have to deal with things that bad. I hope to learn to read body language more!

Are all Aspies shy? If they are, I am no doubt already friends with a few. I tend to gravitate toward shy people more than I do the outgoing ones...

I too, zer0netgain, feel appalled by anyone that would stoop so low as to claim a disability rather than growing up. It is one of the reasons why I was skeptical about Jove's claim. The more I learn, the more I realise that quitting is my best option. He will never change if he can continue to get away with it, and the system they have here at my university is so stupid that they will not even touch him because it is up to the professor, and the professor won't do anything because he is a soft hearted, but well meaning fool.

Though, rest assured I am not the only one that has complained. Every time any of us complains or puts in a formal complaint with HR, Jove just acts worse and worse. We had the inkling that we were getting to a soft point and making him worry, but they he pulled the disorder card and I thought maybe there was some other facet to it.

Now, I'm glad I contacted you guys. I rather like all of you.

To be fair, I'm not sure if "sociopath" is the right term for what I'm visualizing Jove to be. He strikes me as immature, self-centered, and inclined to do whatever is needed to get what he wants....including intimidating and manipulating others. Based on his conduct so far, I would actually "fear" him either in that he might sabotage my work to get one over on me or that he could degrade so far as to become physically violent if feels so provoked.

Anybody know a better term, please post it...I'm not an expert with psychology.



Indeed. Those who have AS that's bad enough to be obvious usually will disclose up-front because they know it needs to be addressed. Those fortunate enough to try and "fly under the radar" leave it a non-issue until a situation arises that makes it necessary. People with AS usually don't need much "accommodation" to be as productive as NTs, and any social interaction issues are the product of how they react to stimulus. People with AS do not act like as*holes because AS drives them to be as*holes.



That is a choice you must make for yourself. I hate to see a person bullied out of a job (and that's what Jove is doing...bullying people to get what he wants). Hopefully you can get a better position and leave on good terms, but don't be shy about letting HR know that your choice to leave them is because of Jove creating a hostile work environment. Ideally, HR should get rid of Jove. The longer they tolerate his conduct, the more entrenched he'll become in his job.



That's what this place is for. I'm sorry there are people like Jove out there who give people who legitimately have AS a bad name.