Working with Asperber's in a co-worker. Please help.

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Personally I think at this point it no longer matters weather Jove has AS or not, the thing about AS and social issues isn't that we can't do it but that we have to be taught or selfteach, learning subtle stuff like body-language or subtext is hard and often we never get it but for easy stuff like "don't be a stalker": just saying clearly that its rude should be enough. You have made it clear to Jove that his behavior is not acceptable and he still continued, that's not AS that's just showing a lack of basic decency and you shouldn't feel guilty for getting the professor to fire him and the horse he rode in on.

That said habits are hard to change, so if he shows that he's makeing an effort to change his behavior you probably should forgive the occasional slip, just gently remind them. And be aware that while most social issues can be solved if you just talk to them rather than look hurt and expect him to realise there are some that your just going to have to work around, having trouble with body language and other subtle forms of communcation is often their for life, so is not being able to look anyone in the eyes (but not everyone with AS has that issue). None of these should be a real problem in a job if the rest of the staff know what the issues are and how to work around them.

Actually I pretty much say it outright, its more like I never made a secret so while I don't tell everyone I meet its not that uncommon for people to know. There's no real consensus here on weather or not you should keep it to yourself and of course the answer to that depends on the culture you live in and how severe your AS is.

I am hoping that the little quote thingies work. apologies if they dont.

[quote="Rhea"]I find it interesting that a few of you have mentioned "sociopath" in this. I am slightly taken aback by that because I, myself, am diagnosed as a borderline sociopath because I conditioned myself to not feel anything. This was mostly a personal choice to survive an upbringing with my mother. I hope I'm never as threatening as any of you would see a sociopath since I'm trying very hard to get along with the rest of the world now that I'm out of her sphere of influence. [/quote]

I do not see anything threatening about sociopaths or the like. It is simply another survival technique for dealing with bad situations, whether it is a conscious or unconscious thing, the cause and effect are the same. Just as there are plenty of schizophrenics who are good people and contribute to society, I am sure that the same can be said for sociopaths and even psychopaths. I tend to have a lot more tolerance for people with issues and 'mental illness' than I do for the NT's.

[quote="Rhea"]Lessian, thank you for the insight of how to deal with people in general, not just Aspies. [/quote]

You are welcome

[quote="Rhea"]Your description of what an Aspie might feel on the extreme end makes me think. How would outside noises - such as other work stations having music that the person doesn't necessarily like? Our professor has a rather delightful habit of playing classical music loudly when he works. It took all of us time to get used to it. But, if someone that had felt like they had "a massive headache and someone keeps banging a loud drum right next to your head," how could we know what they need if they don't tell us? [/quote]

This is something that varies from person to person, so I can't really generalise with this one. In my case, it depends on things like pitch and tone. base sounds are ok with me despite that they travel more than others. however I can't stand most car stereos because of the way they output the vocals and treble sounds. it is along the same lines as nails on a chalkboard, that is it grates on the little bones in my ears. but on a good quality set of speakers, the same song is totally fine. also surprisingly enough, I can happily listen to the same song on a pair of quality earphones.
Again, I can only speak for myself on this one, but I wont say anything if I am not sure of what it is that I am supposed to say. Half the time, I can be having a problem and not even realise it. Or I may realise that I am having a problem, but not what the details are. How can I express myself to someone I may not feel completely comfortable with, when I can't even express myself to myself?

[quote="Rhea"] Stress is no fun, and no one should have to deal with things that bad. [/quote]

I agree, no one should have to deal with things that bad. Unfortunately, most NT's dont care.

[quote="Rhea"]Are all Aspies shy? If they are, I am no doubt already friends with a few. I tend to gravitate toward shy people more than I do the outgoing ones...[/quote]

Aspie sometimes = shy, shy does not always = aspie. If I am having a particularly good day, I am sometimes quite outgoing and not-shy even around people I dont know. But this is not the real me. It is a face that I learned to wear, like the shyness is not me either. The real me is somewhere in between and hides between these other two extremes to shield from the harsh outside world.

[quote="Rhea"]The more I learn, the more I realise that quitting is my best option. [/quote]

You should not have to be bullied out of a job where you were there first. Although, it does kind of give you another unpleasant taste of what we often experience. Not cool.

Even after you make your decision re this whole mess, you should keep in contact with us via pm's and the various other forums. Friends of aspies are welcome here as well.

'Borderline sociopath' is something I would regard as 'normal'. To me, normal people are mildly sociopathic.

Hrm. So, if I work with someone that actually has Asperger's, they would likely have a hard time reading between the lines. I have this "bad habit", or so I've been told, of being too honest and direct. In fact, I sort of lack tact when it comes to people's needs. I'm not afraid to come right out and say, "The gentleman over there is having a hard time concentrating. Could you please turn your music down?" I admit that it lacks tact, but at the same time there is no question about why the music is disruptive in the first place and what needs to be done about it. I am appalled by rudeness, so I try to always be kind and considerate in such situations. I hope if I can keep this up it will help out even someone that can't read the subtext well.

As for progress -- It doesn't appear that Jove wants to show progress. I've received complaints from the boss that he doesn't get anything done at all, from the office staff that he is belligerent and rude, and from the other students working in the lab that he is disruptive and obnoxious to their work. This is even after the last two months of us trying to get it through his skull what is appropriate for the workplace and what his job is so he can do it.

Sadly, there is nothing I can do about it. I've tried everything I can within my limits. Talking directly to him doesn't do anything but start a fight. Talking indirectly to him through the boss starts even more drama. I can't fire him. The only thing that isn't resolved yet is the case with HR to see if they can force the boss to fire him. That or his visa runs out of time and he is forced to return to Kuwait.



I have the exact same problem, but with emotions. I usually play this came "Society Say..." meaning I think "What would be expected of me in this situation. Should I get angry? Should I cry? Should I be a little upset?" It doesn't always work and I stand there looking stupid for quite sometime until I'm rescued by one of my friends that knows what I'm going through at the moment.

What are the body languages that you use? Tapping fingers? Pacing? I'm trying to put some things together so I can realise when anyone around me is having issues of the sort. I normally rely on waiting for people to say something since the first thing I tell them is, "I'm not a mind reader. If you have any problems, please be open and honest. We'll do what we can to make things comfortable for all."

Postperson, you made me want to dance up and down the halls telling my co-workers that I'm normal.

I'm going to say probably, there are people with AS who have taught themselves to read between lines very well (I know one personally) but while I don't have figures I'd guess the majority will always have problems reading between lines.

Well firstly someone with trouble reading subtext will have no trouble understanding that

Secondly I don't think that's a bad habit, it seemed pretty polite to me (you said please) but the two key things to explicitly say are what you want someone to do and why you want them to do that. If you can fit that into the sentence structure others consider polite I'd go for it.

Thirdly I wouldn't worry too much about rehearsing how to work along side people who have AS, if your polite and open minded (and that's a good idea for talking to anyone not just aspies) you'll probably be able to learn how to work effectively with aspies just by working with one. Still though, its nice of you to make the effort

Two months is more than enough time, all I can say is best of luck finding a way to get rid of him.

I'm now going to comment on something I'm not qualified to talk about, but rather than playing society says have you considered just deciding what you want your emotional reactions to be? I'm not sure how that would work, either you've got a problem understanding your emotions or you've got an opportunity few people ever have to build an emotional profile to your own specifications.

You should stay on wrong planet, you'd fit right in here

The problem I found with not reacting in the expected way is that I ended up in a mental institute. My aunt thought something was seriously wrong with me, so she put me in there. She meant well, but the only thing I learnt to do is throw up my medication and lie to the nurses and doctors so I could get out. That is when I learnt to play this game with my uncle's help. He didn't think anything was wrong with me, but it scares others than I can remain unemotional where they wouldn't be able to hold on.

With my friends I am myself, but with strangers I am not. I've come to accept the fact that I can't "feel" what others do, but I still try to understand what makes others react the way they do. In a way, I have built up my own emotional profile. It is just very, very small.

I might stay here on Wrong Planet as someone you can sound off to. I've been told twice now to stay. Once by Lessian, once by you. I've read through all the other forums, but I feel odd interjecting as I don't feel like I have any right to say I understand. Though, I would like to learn more about AS (I assume this is Asperger's) and see if there is a way that I can lend a friendly virtual hand to those that want it.

Here is where I confess ignorance: What is NT? You've all mentioned it off and on, and it is in a couple other forums. I have no clue what it is. Anyone care to explain?

NT is neurotypical, ie 'normal'.

You sound more aspie than Jove. Why not hang around for a while and see.

Sorry, lol! The thought did actually occur to me to mention the NT=* thing but I totally forgot about it when it came time to posting. My bad!

Just to clear up and so that I can say I have mentioned it:

NT = Neuro Typical (someone that society considers to be 'normal')
Aspie = a nickname for someone with aspergers
Autie = someone with autism
AS = Aspergers Syndrome
PDD = pervasive developmental disorder (a generic term for the aspergers/autistic spectrum
ASD = autistic spectrum disorder

That's just awful, haven't they learnt anything from the Rosenhan experiment? Nice work throwing up your medicine.

Mostly it just upsets others when I do that, probably because I'm only noticeable less emotional than normal in very limited circumstances (death never bothered me) and of course everyone's obviously feeling really down when that happens.

I felt like that at first too, while I'm diagnosed with AS I've got a comparatively minor case, and secondly I've got great parents and enjoyed school so I didn't feel I fitted in whenever people were venting about problems with their parents or school.

Given what Rhea said about her mother I'd be careful with self diagnosis. AS is a neurological condition so technically if you got the symptoms from your upbringing you don't have AS.
There, that's my need for pedantic accuracy out the way

TheKingsRaven is right, aspergers is a hardware thing, not software. Sociopathy is a software thing as a result of personal experience.

Research nowadays indicates that aspergers starts to show around the age of two (assuming you know what to look for).

A few different research papers indicate that children diagnosed with aspergers appear to have the following in common:
- faster than usual brain growth up to the age of two
- slowed brain growth after this age

Think about what happens when you take shortcuts in a process that requires care and attention - you end up with something that works, but is a little bit sensitive and temperamental to operate. (Great, we are all hotwired jerry-rigged contraptions!)

But this really has nothing to do with Jove, just an observation relating to a previous post in this thread.

Heh. I had figured we'd get off topic. I thought that I'd either be told that he does or doesn't, and get advice on how to deal with people in general, if I didn't have it already figured out. I don't think I have all the answer yet; I don't think I ever will. Humans are tricky to deal with.

I know I don't have AS. My hardwiring problem is a complete cross-wiring of all my senses in synaesthesia. While I have days like Lessian explained before, I know where it is coming from and sometimes how to deal with it - most often with earplugs, Tylenol and a nap. No need for a false diagnosis from me, which is why I know I don't really belong here.

Although I know I don't belong on this forum, I probably will stick around for a little while. I can possibly be of help when dealing with some situations. If I can, I'll try my best.

Sounds as though you'd probably find someone with AS exceptionally easy to work with.

You can have traits of a disorder without having a disorder, though. You can't be diagnosed with a disorder unless its symptoms cause distress. Doesn't mean that you can't relate better to aspies than NTs, though.

This gives me hope. I have been watching how I interact with people carefully and trying to evaluate my own actions. I've noticed some good and bad things, but thankfully more good than bad.

One thing that bothers me is that I tend to get very focused on what I'm doing. When someone interrupts me, I take a while to snap to the current situation. My replies are distant, short, and possibly on the snappy side. How would that sort of behavior seem to any of you?

The reason why I ask is because I've noticed that different people take it a different way. One of my friends gets offended until they realise that I was zoned out in my own world of work. Another person I work with does the same thing, so they understand completely.

Obviously different day, different reaction. Can you give me any insight on how you might view this sort of thing?

I probably wouldn't mind too much, especially if your obviously focused. Staring at a computer screen with rapid typing is a giveaway

But if its in the middle of a conversation that would probobly bother me a bit, I know it dose when I'm talking on instant messenger because I worry its something I said.

If this is a very quiet work atmosphere, maybe what you perceive as 'outbursts' are more obvious, and not outbursts. Also could be a cultural difference, as I often have to cover my ears at the loudness of my co workers (literally!) and at people in society who talk very loudly and yell to their relatives, etc. As far as what you don't accept, I , too, told co workers of their personal questions , etc. and as long as management tolerates it, people will continue to act as if work is their personal life. It is not. This is a problem across the BOARD at many companies: People talking loudly about their personal lives and asking nosy questions of their co-workers. When you don't participate or tell them to stop the personal questions, you are labeled, as said here. Don't know what is going on in the workplace in these recent yrs, where this behavior is tolerated .

Thanks for the further insight, ww. I know what you mean when you say things might seem out of proportion. I feel that all the time at home because it actually is quite there compared to at work. (At work it is more like a circus with people running in and out of the door all the time.)

Though, this is something to keep in mind for the future. ^_^