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Sweetleaf
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08 May 2012, 1:06 pm

anewman wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Though I've given up on my job search for now.

I feel very much like that all the time. What's the point in bothering to apply or go to an interview, when the end result seems pre-determined due to a disability you were born with, and did not choose to have?!


Yeah and I'm starting to feel pretty desperate, I mean what the hell am I supposed to do.....if I'm lucky enough to be hired I'd be lucky to keep the job. Before they determine I'm too slow, a bit mental and essentially useless for the job like the last one I had.


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edgewaters
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08 May 2012, 1:38 pm

anewman wrote:
I wonder if Aspies here would agree with me on the following?

It seems employers (and everyone else for that matter) believe these communication, interpersonal, teamwork or whatever skills employers yearn for so much - are something you learn.


I think so. And actually, I think they're right. Its just that it comes naturally/intuitively to most people, because the framework for socialization in the society is built around how they naturally socialize. Basically they're savants, when it comes to the standard mode of socialization. They still learn it, but very very easily by comparison.



Tawaki
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13 May 2012, 12:59 pm

FMX wrote:
As others have said, just ignore the "outstanding communication skills" requirement. It's just part of the game candidates and HR people play. Now, it is important to have decent communication skills, but they can't say that in the ad or they'd get people with terrible communication skills. It's a bit like used car ads. The seller never posts a fair price that they'd be willing to accept. If they did that everyone would offer much less. So they have to ask for a price that they and the buyers both know is way too high and haggle from there. It's a stupid game and I wish we wouldn't have to play it, but we do.

The other aspect of this is that HR people tend to be very NT. To them good communication skills = extroversion. That's not true - communication skills are about making yourself understood and I think aspies can be good at that given a chance. So you just have to fake it well enough to get past them and hopefully you'll get an interview with someone who actually knows what the job involves and what skills are important to it.


You are close about team player/outstanding communication skills.

What businesses want, and really want, is someone who can handle the day in day out BS of the work place without running to the boss or HR every time Tiffany the Trust Fund Hipster (who's uncle is on the board) makes someone's life a living hell.

Every time someone runs to HR or the Boss (right or wrong), the company views that as wasting resources. Team Player means are you savy to know which battles to fight or let go (depending on how unfair).

I'm an NT, and have had PLENTY of coworkers I wanted to shank in the back after work. A lot of entitlement drama queens, a lot of my mommy works here so I got job security, and I am "insert excuse", so I don't have to do that or work that day.

And when the work BS was getting to much, I reworked my resume, found other employment and bailed!

In short, Team Player means can you tolerate annoying co workers without going postal (usually).

Tawaki



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13 May 2012, 9:53 pm

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I would liken Aspergers to a wheelchair user or profoundly deaf person in terms of obstacles to employment. What I mean is a wheelchair user might need a ramp, lift, and height adjustable desk; or a deaf person might need a sign language interpreter or to discuss work by email/have instructions in writing, to enable them to work. We may need adjustments to enable us to interact effectively with others. Sometimes a little consideration can go along way, but it's something often lacking in NT's.


NT's don't seem to get this. There is no visible impairment for Asperger's so NT's think it’s all in your head and you want 'special' treatment because you think you're better than they are. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have to work TWICE AS HARD just to hold a job most people would consider ordinary. Sometime people see me working twice as hard, and misinterpret this as trying to better other staff, get a raise, or whatever. I find interacting with people, AT ALL, stressful. Without being able to go home afterwards and 'zone out' in solitude, I wouldn't be able to cope.

People think I'm deliberately rude, arrogant, selfish, ECT, ECT, and this is not true. I don't think I'm better or 'special', or deserving of special treatment without cause. I believe I deserve some leeway because I have odd behaviors that others can't understand, but that is more due to a handicap, than to a superiority complex. I feel discriminated against, and it’s not a good feeling.


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androbot2084
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15 May 2012, 12:36 pm

I think that people with autism actually have higher communication skills than neurotypicals. The problem neurotypicals have with autism is that a neurotypical feels that they are being brainwashed or converted whenever they talk to an autistic.



Sweetleaf
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15 May 2012, 12:48 pm

Tawaki wrote:
You are close about team player/outstanding communication skills.

What businesses want, and really want, is someone who can handle the day in day out BS of the work place without running to the boss or HR every time Tiffany the Trust Fund Hipster (who's uncle is on the board) makes someone's life a living hell.

Every time someone runs to HR or the Boss (right or wrong), the company views that as wasting resources. Team Player means are you savy to know which battles to fight or let go (depending on how unfair).

I'm an NT, and have had PLENTY of coworkers I wanted to shank in the back after work. A lot of entitlement drama queens, a lot of my mommy works here so I got job security, and I am "insert excuse", so I don't have to do that or work that day.

And when the work BS was getting to much, I reworked my resume, found other employment and bailed!

In short, Team Player means can you tolerate annoying co workers without going postal (usually).
Tawaki


Yes that would be an issue for me.....I can only take so much crap before it sets me off and my crap tolerance is a bit lower then most peoples.


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Sweetleaf
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15 May 2012, 12:51 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
I think that people with autism actually have higher communication skills than neurotypicals. The problem neurotypicals have with autism is that a neurotypical feels that they are being brainwashed or converted whenever they talk to an autistic.


Ok well why is it most neurotypicals don't find communicating with people hard overall........but many on the spectrum themselves describe the issues with communication skills they have? I don't see not being able to ask the person sitting in front of me in class for a pencil to borrow because I forgot mine for instance as higher communication skills. I see that as an annoyance I don't really enjoy.

And I hope people don't feel that way when I talk to them....as I really don't have a holier than thou attitude towards people.


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androbot2084
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15 May 2012, 1:26 pm

People are annoyed at me because I come off as a freeloader. Recently I proposed that unemployed people should get free tickets to go see a rock concert and I get this response that fun things are not supposed to be free. It seems nobody can remember what it was like going to a free concert but I was not proposing a free concert because working people would have to pay for the tickets and that includes me if I were to get a job.. Anyway I think I have good communication skills but nobody wants to listen to me.



Sweetleaf
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15 May 2012, 1:29 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
People are annoyed at me because I come off as a freeloader. Recently I proposed that unemployed people should get free tickets to go see a rock concert and I get this response that fun things are not supposed to be free. It seems nobody can remember what it was like going to a free concert but I was not proposing a free concert because working people would have to pay for the tickets and that includes me if I were to get a job.. Anyway I think I have good communication skills but nobody wants to listen to me.


You thinking you have good communication skills(which you certainly could) does not mean its a fact people with autism have higher communication skills then neurotypicals.


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androbot2084
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15 May 2012, 1:42 pm

People constantly tell me that I could never be a rock star because I am a terrible singer. But am I a horrible singer or is it that people just don't like what I am singing about?



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18 May 2012, 10:45 pm

Oh boy, can I relate to this topic. Job ads seem full of those words that exclude Aspies. "Fast-paced work", "excellent multi-tasker", "outgoing", "extroverted", "a people person", "assertive", "excellent phone manner", "cheerful" - bleurgh. "Bright and bubbly" is one of my all-time favourites. Do you want a person or a bloody champagne? And if you can only cope with part-time work, you have even less chance of finding something that suits you.



Disraeli
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19 May 2012, 2:15 am

With the economy the way it is a lot of people are in the same boatr, both NT and Aspies.



Ana6
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21 May 2012, 9:21 pm

Can you spin it better?

Like when they ask you your biggest fault, and you're supposed to turn it into a positive.

Dunno, maybe something like "I am an introvert and it takes me a while to feel comfortable expressing myself fully in team meetings. At the start of a project I tend to work more one-on-one with individual team members. This can actually be an advantage, because I am very detail-oriented, so I can observe and understand how things are working. This has helped me to identify and solve problems early, before they grow."

"As an introvert, the strategies I've learned to use to work effectively on a team include letting people know early on that I am an introvert, and although I am quiet, I am still a team player. Also, I volunteer for tasks that fit my skill set, that need to be done in isolation, as these often aren't as much fun for the more extroverted types. I also make sure I provide input, even when I have to stretch my comfort zone to do it. It is something I have gotten better at over time."



AldousH
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24 May 2012, 2:59 am

I ca relate to what you're saying. It's not really the same thing as your issue but I remember applying for an internship position and going to the interview (I didn't knew it was an actual interview) dressed like Kurt Cobain. I was only a little "on" some codeine. Although I was amongst the more intellectually capable people there (I went to college with a lot of the others - f*****g "husserl who?" simple morons) and otherwise physically attractive they dismissed me from the start.

I think there should be institutions fighting the aspie discrimination you talk about.



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24 May 2012, 3:21 am

Here in Europe we have that too. Society created an image of the perfect employee and the ideal person; you need to be young with yearsof experience, you need to be social, communicative, very motivated and have a slave mentality to the co workers. I really wonder how I'll get a decent job in the future, because lying at the interview wouldn't be best either because people'll notice I can't be social for an extended period of time.



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24 May 2012, 8:12 am

Ana6 wrote:
"As an introvert, the strategies I've learned to use to work effectively on a team include letting people know early on that I am an introvert, and although I am quiet, I am still a team player. Also, I volunteer for tasks that fit my skill set, that need to be done in isolation, as these often aren't as much fun for the more extroverted types. I also make sure I provide input, even when I have to stretch my comfort zone to do it. It is something I have gotten better at over time."


Maybe you're right, maybe it is a matter of spin. But I can't say this kind of stuff without laughing - or gagging. It sounds so fake to me and it probably sounds fake to the interviewer, at least if I say it. It's not my genuine personality and I feel like I'm lying. Does anyone else have that problem?