Blaming parents for not having a job

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Hey guys, I appreciate all the advice and the critiques. I do understand that you all are just getting my side of the story, and I would love for him to tell you his side, except, HE IS INSULTED IF YOU MENTION HIS I NAME AND ASPERGER'S IN THE SAME SENTENCE!! !! I have done a little bit of reading on AS, and my intention is not to insult anyone, including my nephew, but if anyone is familiar with Dr Tony Attwood and his definition of the ""god mode" Aspies can go into, it is an INAPPROPRIATE, compensatory, mechanism. It is arrogance, perfectionism, and an intolerance of others. And when it comes to anger, unfortunately some males with AS have an authoritarian outlook on life with a rigid hierarchy where males are dominant over females. Thus girls or Mothers may be targeted when the person feels angry. This is my nephew, point blank. After his meltdowns, he can be sweet as pie. It is a very difficult thing for an NT to deal with on a constant basis. So no matter how much I am being told He is not being listened to, or that he may be right in his anger, I know better. We love him more than you could ever know, that is why I am here trying to find different perspectives on how to deal with his anger. Bottom line, he is not right when he does this to his Mother, no matter what anyone says.

I think the neutral third party suggestion is the way to go. If you need leverage to get him to agree to this, I suppose you could always demand he has to be responsible for all his own costs (rent, food etc) unless he's willing to negotiate via mediation. It isn't unreasonable to bring him to the table but I wouldn't use leverage for anything else.

Well please try to get him to come on anyway and read what I have at least said. I wouldn't even talk about aspergers with him if he doesn't feel comfortable about it. I do believe if he came on here and talked with the members here he would come to accept it more. He is denying a part of who he is and that's dangerous territory. He has to understand that.

I'd be upset too if someone repeatedly tried to stick a label on me that I don't agree with. I'd get very hostile if people would gang up on me in an attempt to be more convincing (it's two of you versus one of him). I may be wrong about this, I simply don't know enough about the situation (hence the suggestion of a mediator who can hear both sides - this would have to be face to face, by the way, not via internet), but I have been in a similar situation and felt like the two people who were supposed to support me in a time of crisis, when I was completely overwhelmed, not only failed to do so, but they actively made things worse by putting even more pressure on me. It felt like they were trampling on me while I was already helpless on the ground. I remember having angry outbursts too, but they were just a result of them cornering me. I still don't understand how they could've not realized that.

"A little reading" doesn't qualify you to diagnose someone. In fact, what a little reading will do is prime your brain to look for confirmation. You will ask yourself "could it be that he has Asperger's?". And the answer to questions like those is always yes, because that's how the human brain works (you can look up studies in the area of cognitive bias, decision making etc. if you don't believe it). It is a similar effect to reading about symptoms for diseases; suddenly you start to think "wait, don't I have quite a few of those?".
So you read how "males with AS have an authoritarian outlook on life" and bam..there's the explanation you were looking for. And another confirmation of the Asperger theory, conveniently. Except you don't really know, it's mere conjecture. You say "you know better", but I wouldn't be so sure you do.


It almost never is. Of course people like to make it simple (less of a hassle for them, doesn't require them to think or have the discomfort of confusion over uncertainty and ambiguity).

Sorry guys, I don't know how to do the "quotes" thing! I"m really not computer savvy by a long-shot!! !! I would like to ask Cubedemon6073 what he means when he says that my nephew denying the Asperger's could be dangerous territory? I agree with you, I just want to know what your definition of that is. And for Looktwice, I understand that you come from a different perspective than I, but I assure you, I didn't grab the term Asperger's Syndrome out of the clear blue. Two different therapists suggested that it is what my nephew has, but he also has anosognosia, so we have had to leave it alone and try to find a way to deal with it to better help his Mom, my sister. In the 2 years that have gone by since this was suggested, we have mentioned it to him two more times, and he dismissed it completely. We no longer mention it. So I take issue with your suggestion that we are ganging up on him trying to shove this label down his throat. Also, your suggestion that my "little reading" does not qualify me to make a diagnosis is utterly laughable. If you want to call it a diagnosis, so be it, what I call it is a door that was opened to my family that made things that been happening with my nephew AND his Father, make COMPLETE SENSE to us!! ! We literally thought both of them had any number of mental disorders and when Aspergers came along my sister and I REJOICED in the fact that her husband and son were not nuts!! ! So yes, she and I have embraced it as what they have. Have we then diagnosed them? As I have said, call it what you will, we call it, "OH, THAT"S WHY HE DOES THAT"! !! I do agree that mediation from an outsider is definitely needed and we are working on that now! Thank you to everyone with your feedback! I really do appreciate it! Please keep them coming!

Thank you so much for your input. I am using it to try and step into my nephews shoes somewhat.

My last post was for Sweetleaf!! I have got to learn how to do this correctly!! ! LOL!

What do you mean finding out they could have had aspergers made you you rejoice because they were not nuts? just confusing to me, considering how I've typically heard that term used. Anyways, I think the getting mediation from an outsider is a good idea.

I understand that it could be quite insulting to use the term "nuts" in regards to this situation, especially if you are an aspie, but in no way did I mean it in that way!! It is a "term of endearment" my sister and I have used throughout the years to describe her son and husband just to get us past the rituals they go into! Such as her son, a grown man, coming out of the bathroom, BUTT NAKED everyday to dry off! He simply walks out of the bathroom with nothing on or a towel and they all have to just look away! LOL! Or her husband that takes 3 hour baths TWICE A DAY WITH ONE BATHROOM IN THE APARTMENT!! ! This is just the tip of the iceberg about the rituals, I have loads of them! And to the two NT's, myself and my sister, dealing with this, I will not lie to you, there were plenty of times before the term asperger's was introduced that we totally thought. THEY ARE NUTS!! Once again, not meaning to insult anyone!! !

More than likely you all are correct that he does have aspergers. Let's say he does. His aspergers is a part of his identity. He is denying a part of himself. This is a coping mechanism that he is using and is very dangerous. When I was first diagnoised with aspergers it was difficult for me to accept. It's difficult to accept that there is hardly anyone like you on the face of the planet. For a number of years I thought I was normal. I've been through the different stages. http://grief.com/the-five-stages-of-grief/

For a while, I almost broke with reality myself.

Thanks so much Cubedemon6073. Your name makes me quite curious! Not asking, just that it says so little yet so much! Lol! As I said, I too think that his denial is not good, but unless someone else comes along to convince him, he is truly one of those that will not except Aspergers. My sister is so overwhelmed by it all, and getting her to go to a support group right now is like pulling her teeth!! She feels like her husband and son should go, but that's never gonna happen! So I have been making a little headway on getting her to go. We live in different states and I am planning on going to some groups in my state. Our main focus right now is learning to deal with my nephews meltdowns. Though I talk to him over the phone and I try to stay calm, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. And sometimes I lose my cool. He is VERY GOOD with computers and my sister got him an interview with an IT firm, but the night before the interview he started to harass her about the clothes he had to wear, etc... and basically SHE EXPLODED ON HIM!! ! Funny thing is, it shut him down and he left her alone!! LOL! That's what we are trying NOT to do because we do not know where it could lead. My sister and I both are not going to let her 24 year old son run the show, but we do understand that he has this different way of thinking and we have to learn to adjust! It is just SO HARD TO DO when you have this person telling you that he is SUPERIOR to anyone else, and he is incredibly smart, yet he does not know when to come in out of the rain!! Literally!! Although we are sure her husband has it as well, we are more-so concentrating on her son. Just hoping to find a way to help him navigate through this crazy, crazy world!

Hey Cubedemon, how did you learn to accept it?

I have been told that I'm a man of many contradictions. Second, I got a job in IT a few years and guess what I still do not have a job with IT. I can't get a job in this field. This is because the jobs have shipped off to India and the jobs that are here require him to have multi-skills and each skill requries years of experience. How does he do this? I have tried to get an IT job and then any job. After that, I finally had to claim and on go social security disability. I still do not understand really how the workplace works or society works. You're not going to like what I am going to say but the truth is what I do know is this. The employers have a certain personality that they want. Your son will not fit this personality whatsoever. My opinion is he needs to claim disability now.

How did I learn to accept it? I will tell you. The inordinate desire for truth and the betterment of my soul defines who and what I am. It is what the great philosopher Socrates wanted. Fredrich Nitezsche said "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. " You see I don't buy certain things that the American people should buy. I refuse to sacrifice a child to the hellish, dark, and dirty closet in Omelas. http://harelbarzilai.org/words/omelas.txt You really want to know who and what I am and how I learned to accept it. I realized that I am person who desires more than just a job, money, wealth, power or success. For the price of being true to who I am and staying true to my principles I believe that it is my duty that was granted to me and if America is to become better I have to challenge people's beliefs and standards. I have been appointed just like Socrates was appointed to challenge the Social Veener of America itself. This is how I learned to accept who I am. I believe that since having a positive attitude always works in reality then I believe I will negate the phrase "Life is unfair." I will move this mountain.

I would tell him to go ahead and claim disability. As the workplace currently stands he will more than likely fail especially in IT. I'm talking from personal experience. Voc rehab is a joke. I've already tried them. They will give you the run around. After he claims disability and is able to get on it then he needs to use the knowledge and skills to challenge people's beliefs and what they hold dear. If he is going to get the help he needs and this includes a lot of us as well he will have to challenge people's values and standards. He has every right to be himself and no one can take that away from him. I will fight those who try to make me into something I am not. I will fight them to my last dying breath.

Ok Cubedemon, that went just a bit over my head!! ! I absolutely appreciate you taking the time to let me into your world somewhat though!! As for my nephew getting on disability, I would guess that when the day comes and he decides to accept the Asperger's, and then goes to get an official diagnosis, we could explore that if all else has failed! He had his first day of work yesterday and although he said it went fine, 10 minutes after getting home he went to his Mom and once again berated her, not loudly, on ruining his life for making him go to college. He told her if not for that he would be established and living his life but now it's too late! Never once does he ever approach his Dad with this nonsense! Anyway, 10 minutes after that, he was apologizing to her. It is all very hard to figure out., but I SHALL NOT give up on my pursuit to learn how to deal with him as he is having these moments!! ! We want him to be able to express himself, but the whole blaming thing is getting REALLY TIRED REALLY FAST!! ! Having Asperger's does not allow you to be cruel just for the hell of it in my book!

You have to make him examine his own belief system and appeal to his sense of reason. I would make him prove his conclusion. These are the questions I would ask.

1. How do you derive that you were forced and made to go to college? What is your definition of "being forced" and "being made?"
2. How do you derive that even if your mom made you go to college that the act of going to college ruined your life? By the way, what is your criteria for a life being ruined? Let's say your life was ruined my question is why couldn't it be other criteria as well? How do you derive that you being forced to go to college was the only factor?

3. Let's do a what if analysis. What if you never went to college? How do you derive that you would be established and living your life? What do you consider being established and living your life? How do you know you wouldn't be in the same boat either way?
4. How do you derive that you are more intelligent than everyone in the world? By the way, what do you consider intelligence? I will accept you are more intelligent than me. I would also say "Honestly, the truth is I am ignorant on a whole lot of matters including truth, life, success, social skills, intelligence, etc. You have more knowledge than I do. How do I become as knowledgable and wise as you?" I would then ask him "Can we sit down and discuss all of this over pizza or something?"

For me, the problem is the opposite. I always ask myself how do I really know for sure that x statement is true. I end up in analysis paralysis. Once I end up there I can't function whatsoever.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis

I have some questions for you now.

1. During the time he went to college did he try to tell you he could not do it? If he did how did you all react? Did you just assume he had a negative attitude and tell him he was being negative? Did you all dismiss what he said or did you all help him through it?

2. Did you guys promote positivity and a positive attitude in the household?

3. I'm going to give this from my point of view. What I understood about the workplace and society is this. You go to elementary school, middle school, high school, college and then a job. I always thought getting a job was as easy as moving from 5th to the 6th all the way to 12th. I've always thought that all you needed was the degree, you slid into the workplace just like that and the employers molded you. Did he and does he now have this same kind of thinking? From my point of view this was promoted by the educators, parents and society itself. Like I said before you need to test him to see how much he understands and knows. He may be in danger of being fired right now and doesn't know it.

4. Did you all encourage him to be himself? If you all did then here is problem. He is being encouraged and made to fit an employer's mold that goes against who and what he is. He is being expected to be something he is not. What makes it worse is the doublemindedness. He is told to be himself but at the same time to fit a veneer and mold that goes against his very nature and soul. This is called doublethink. At the very least it is a bunch of mixed signals. Is he allowed to be his true self, yes or no?

5. If you encouraged any of these things then he is doing exactly what you raised him up to be. He is following and doing exactly what you say. If he sees pride and arrogance as being his true self then I ask you why can't he be prideful and arrogant? If he thinks being better than everyone else is being himself and is a form of positivity then I ask again why is he wrong?

6. I would tell you the same thing I would tell him. I am ignorant on a whole host of matters at hand. I have more questions for both of you than answers. All I am simply trying to do is to understand. Honestly, I simply do not know nor understand. What truly is good? Who am I? I would ask him as well as you how do you know what be yourself means and how would one know he has fullfilled the criteria? I have another question for both of you. If one improves himself through knowledge, moral reasoning, logical reasoning, thought process, etc does one over time change who he is or is their a base self that never can be changed? How does one truly live his life? What is the essence of humility? What is the essence of arrogance? I ask you, do you consider arrogance to always be a vice and if so why? I have more questions. Does one have an innate identity? If one truly has an innate identity and one is forced to go against his innate identity is this person being harmed in anyway? If he has to obtain a job and all jobs require him to go against his innate identity are you helping him or harming him? If arrogance is innate to him and a part of who he is by trying to accept the virtue of humility does this go against who he is? If it is going against who he is are you really helping him or harming him? I would ask another question? What if being true to oneself harms others? How can one truly live a life of morality, nobility, goodness and be true to oneself if it seems like one can't determine what these things are supposed to even be? As you see by my demonstration I am ignorant on a lot of matters at hand. The honest truth is I can't tell him or you how to run your lives if I can't sucessfully run my own life and obtain logical answers to my questions. How can on advise on which he does not know? How can one tell someone to be humble and good if one doesn't know how to be humble and good if one doesn't know what goodness and humility and does not have the essence of them? How can one quit being arrogant and bad if one doesn't understand the essence of arrogance and badness? Can humility ever be evil and arrogance be good? If yes, what are the cases? If not, why not? Can being yourself ever be evil and bad? Can being a fake and practicing ever be noble and good? If not why not? If yes, what are these cases?

He sounds incredibly immature and bitter.

Maybe he's just embarrassed and immature that he couldn't get a job-- maybe he looked and was rejected.

At the end of the day, he's go to realize that:
- Nobody forced him to go to college. He was 18 and could've done whatever he wanted.
- Him not having a job is common with a bad economy for recent graduates.
- His life is his responsibility alone. If you're 18 plus, your life, your choices, your problem to deal with.
- He's got to grow up and accept the life *he* made for himself. At 24, you would think he wouldn't whine that college was the worst thing that happened to him. There are far worse things that can happen in life than attending college.
- He should be happily encouraged (not pressured) to keep looking for jobs. Not often, but in a positive, non-stressful encouraging manner. I don't see why he should try to claim disability. He had the potential to graduate college, and presumably has the ability to work and function... despite mental concerns. Too many people claim disability and welfare without having a true need. Save welfare and disability for those who truly have a 0% of ever being able to perform any time of job whatsoever due to extreme limitations.

Why are you all mentioning Asperger's in regards to him? Did a psychologist actually diagnose him? Are you all just googling and saying he has a developmental disorder? You all aren't doctors, and shouldn't use google research as a tool to "diagnose" someone then tell someone they have a developmental disorder or syndrome. Mentioning developmental or mental illnesses to adults should be avoided.
How would you like someone to come up to you and say "wafflesmom has OCD, she can't help being that clean." Perhaps he feels that you all are trying to insult him, and with his embarrassment of being 24 and jobless, he gets bitter and hostile to "defend" himself.

Perhaps he should see a therapist if he hasn't already. Perhaps his parents should set boundaries. Parents shouldn't be continuously treated that way, nor should a 24 year old be so angry and hostile because he chose to go to college and is unemployed. Maybe he has applied to jobs in private and has been rejected, and sure the economy sucks... that's a big wake up call to recent graduates. But, he's not a kid anymore and should have at least some maturity.