Information Technology

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http://jobsearch.monster.com/PowerSearc ... iles&tm=60

People say there are all these plentiful jobs in information technology. Here is the problem. Metaphorically, they do not read the fine print. Each job has multi-skills requirements. Each skill in each of these jobs require a certain amount of years of experience. I do not have the foggiest idea how anyone who just graduated college with a bachleor's degree in Information Technology is supposed to meet these standards that are in place today. How does the IT field continue to run like this?

I've also been told to obtain my masters. I fail to understand how obtaining my masters is going to solve this problem. I've also been told to go to workshops. I fail to see the logic of this as well. Workshops educate you. They're similar to being in a classroom. I do not need more education. I could always educate myself by buying books. I need to be able to earn experience.

I've also been told to do volunteer work. I still fail to see the logic of this. Here is why. 1. The skill set requirements will change as new jobs are created. It is to erratic. 2. Most of these jobs have abour 4-8 skill set requirements.

Here is another thing. I've been told to go on interviews and I will get better. Huh!! ! I fail to see the logic to this. Here is why.

1. I do not get constructive feed back from interviewer. I do not know in the job interview what I did right and what I did wrong. In school and with programming I get feedback in the form of knowing what answers are wrong and knowing what I did wrong in my code through compile, run-time, and logic errors. I can reverse-engineer and backtrace these things. In the interview, I can't backtrace this. This means I can't correct anything because I have no idea what to correct.

2. The job interviewers lie and are dishonest with you. They promise to call you back to tell you the results but they never do. They do not like me to falsify information to them. Shouldn't the converse be true as well? Why don't they do as they say they will do? If they want honest employees then maybe the interviewers and the employers need to be honest themselves.

Positive Attitude: I do not understand the logic of how having a positive attitude which I think stems from The Secret or The Laws of Attraction and may be a pseudoscience is supposed to fix these problems. It seems like it's some new age nonsense to me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Attraction

Did I take LSD somewhere along the way? If yes, am I in some kind of LSD induced coma? This can't be real. Am I dead and could I be in hell? If yes, could this be a punishment for my sins in my life? Again, this can't be real.

<deleted by me because it seemed unhelpful and unintentionally mean>

BTW, how can you get "years of experience" doing something that
has a 3 year cycle of planned obsolescence?

Last edited by ValMikeSmith on 01 Apr 2010, 12:50 am, edited 2 times in total.

My professor repeatedly says how the IT classes at my school provide managerial aspects, as opposed to schools like ITT which are purely technical. This will likely help me in the workplace, but work isn't supposed to be easy. As for the law of attraction... it's more complicated than that. The simplest possibility is that you just portray more confidence, and THAT is what gets you what you want.

Where does experience come from anyway? It's hard to get a job without it yet so few places offer it... I think.

"People say there are all these plentiful jobs in information technology"

If you are refering to people living in either a) Bangalore, or b) the 1990s then yes, they do say there are plentiful jobs in I.T.. The law of supply and demand has tilted so there are more people with valid qualifications than there are jobs. The jobs that are around usually go to peoples friends.

Many big companies are obliged to offer jobs internally as well as externally. Sometimes they deliberately make the job spec so unlikely for anyone internal to match up to because they already have an external candidate they want to give it to (a friend, or a friend of their managers etc).

Despite what you see on job boards, a lot of IT jobs advertised (I'd suggest more than half) already have the successful candidate lined up.


Also.... If you see a job advert with lots of very specialist items listed - especially skills which don;t really belong with each other, then what you are seeing is a marketting ploy by emplyment agents. Usually the ad reads "must have at least one of the following" and then lists a long list of stuff. A lot of the time these jobs do not exist. What the agent is doing is wanting you to send in your c.v. listing who you work for and which skills you are currently using. he will then phone your present company and say "I hear you are looking for someone who programmes in X language and I can help you fill that position".


Basically, if you ever thought that politicians were the most bent, devious, scum sucking whores on the planet, then you have never met an I.T. recuitment consultant.


Bottom line? You see a job ad with a long list of unachievable skills required? Then it has already gone before being advertised or it never really existed.


So don't sweat it.

college internships?

Just write one code that does Market Arbitrage
All it does is buy low and sell high, and deposit half its profit, and repeat.
Run it in beta until it works and makes money,
then give it a real bank account and watch it grow.

I'm not sure if I believe what someone said that they were a
successful online gambler, but if there is a system for winning poker,
write code for playing poker.
I haven't done THESE but I do have this philosophy
that CODE CAN AND SHOULD WORK FOR ME.

Microsoft code works for Microsoft. It ONLY works for Microsoft.
What IS the mean ROI on new Windows PCs, (for "consumers") anyway?

These examples are out of my field so its not like I just leaked a trade secret.
They are example examples ... ones I considered but couldn't implement myself.
So don't just do them without research and testing.
I am not selling these ideas.
I am throwing them into the rubbish bin.
I don't know if they are "recyclable" or not.

How do I get an IT job? Is it even possible anymore?

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt122955.html

After introducing myself to Java, I decided to look at the job market for IT professionals. It is as bad as what people make it out to be. Unless you are willing to accept low wages and work long hours, there is actually no reason to hire a newly trained programmer when there are legions in Bangalore who are willing to do the same work for a fraction of the minimum living wage requirements elsewhere. But the Indian challenge does not explain everything. The fact is that most major corporations have the systems they need. Even from a performance perspective, there is no reason to reinvest and rewrite old code. If the old AS400 breaks down, IBM still makes them and all a company has to do is place the order. This plus the fact that so many people trained in information technology, because computer programming is basically the liberal arts of engineering disciplines, means that labor supply overwhelms demand.

I agree that there is probably no point in getting a Masters in the field or paying for more training. If you want the skills, you can always buy the books or check them out of the local library. It probably makes more sense to head into areas that require a harder base of mathematical knowhow like statistics and actuarial sciences. It has to be something that other people find unpleasant and/or difficult.

In the IT world, the requirements aren't really "requirements" but more like "nice to haves".



Education in the IT field is mostly crap (if not 100% crap). You're going to become educated on the latest technology on the job and keep up to date that way - not from whatever a book and professor will teach you. Experience is king.



That's crap. I will never hire anyone (except for those unpaid college interns) based upon their "volunteer" experience. If you're not getting paid to do something, why would I care about how good you are at doing it?



You're right. There's no feed back loop. Your school should be able to provide some sort of "mock" interviews which can help you greatly. Failing that, just learn to talk to older more mature individuals. Don't smack gum, don't sit like a log, make eye contact, sound motivated and intelligent.



I've never been in an interview (on both sides of the table) where it was stated "we will get back to you". The only field I've heard of this honestly happening is law.



No, a positive attitude will get you far. When I interview, I look for someone who sounds passionate and is motivated to learn and to demonstrate what they can offer. I pretty much already know the job is going to be new for them (even if it's the same job, it's a different company with different people), so it'll be challenging. Someone with a good attitude will encounter set backs, but will learn and move on. Don't underestimate your attitude during an interview process.

First, experience is king. Second, a positive attitude is critical. Third, don't listen to your peer groups - they're generally idiots, move up one generation (as they're the ones who are interviewing you).

So, how do I get an IT job if I have little to no experience at all? You say experience is king. How do I gain the experience? How do I overcome this catch-22 that I'm in? Is it possible for someone with little to no job experience at all? What do I do? Is there anything that I can do?

If you are a graduate then try for a big company's graduate recruitment programme. If not, then I'm afraid that the best way in is to try for the low end call centre/front line style support jobs where you will be paid a pittance and treated like dirt. Once you;re in you can try and either take a step up in the company you are working for, or if it is a real meat-grinder just use it as experience for your CV and look for better jobs elsewhere.

YMMV but here's what I went through... software sales, student intern providing network/desktop support, "product" tech support, "product" administration at a full time company, consulting, and then management... pretty much in that order.

Getting started is the hardest. Selling computer hardware/software will help give you a broad base of what type of products are out there along with the "lingo" being used. Typically, companies are not purchasing the newest OTS products, so you'll have 1-2 years of lead time.

As an intern, you'll learn the interpersonal skills, how the products are actually being (mis)used, and what people try to do in a day-to-day work environment. This is an opportunity to broaden your knowledge from product to a customer base.

With the broad base knowledge, a job in tech support (preferably with a specific product) will help refine your troubleshooting skills, and mental acuity. Most products work on multiple layers (network, application, user, etc) and understanding how these layers interact and are supposed to work again broadens your knowledge base.

After becoming a "subject matter expert" in the product, you branch out into the administration/consulting of that product. Administration is typically better as you learn more office politics and deliverables with timelines.

Consulting is a game in and of itself. You have to understand what you can do, how much time it'll take and how much to charge. If you can, hook up with a consulting company where they do the negotiating and you simply work on the piecemeal deliverables. You'll get an idea of what you're supposed to do, and what you're holding back on in order to get another (or extend) the contract.

Then there's management. Plenty of books out there. But most engineers I know prefer a manager who knows and has a technical background.

Hope that helps

The way I broke into IT was to take a job at a very small company that was a pay cut from my college job as a burger flipper at Wendy's. I stayed there for five months, all the while looking for a better job. When I found another one, I moved up. Still low paying (about what minimum wage is now), but gained more experience. I did this several times, until I had enough skills and experience to get a halfway decent paying job. Now, 19 years later, I am doing very well in IT.

Basically, it is a gradual process. I know I need to start at the bottom. My question though is where is the bottom?

Where do I look for these jobs? What would be good places to look? Should I only look online if not where? If I want to be a programmer what is the name of my position?

In '91, I found my first two jobs in the newspaper. You may want to try companies' websites, job boards, and word of mouth. If they say they want 1 to 3 years experience, don't be afraid to apply. You already don't have the job.

Big thing is to call a few days after you send your resume and ask on the status. It shows you are interested and that may be enough to get you noticed.