Soon to be Ph.D who lacks independence and job search issues

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Hey everyone,

I'm someone who is soon to be in their 5th year of their Ph.D program (I had an MA accepted in full). My degrees are in experimental psychology. I know this is ironic, but (for those who don't know) clinical psychologists are the ones who sit down, treat, and diagnose individuals.

I've had severe social anxiety ever since my teen years. I am also autistic, have ADHD-I, 3rd percentile processing speed, MDD - Moderate, and generalized anxiety (all of this replicated when I got a re-evaluation back in August 2023). It was so bad that I transitioned to a private high school on an autism scholarship that paid for my tuition there. It worked out well for me since I went from talking to only two people to talking to others and had multiple connections and friends.

During undergraduate though, I got thrashed academically at the "stoner school" of northern Ohio (they gave me near full tuition) despite a 29 ACT, 26 dual enrolled credits with a 3.75 GPA, and a 3.71 high school GPA. The reason is because I fell on the "wrong side of the achievement gap" with the high school I attended because they had no foreign language, AP, IB, or honors courses. I was in the Honors College and dropped out before they were set to kick me out anyway since I had a 2.9 GPA after my first two years. They even said they wanted me to talk to them about my situation before making any decision but I was so anxious that I went and dropped before meeting with anyone anyway. My parents hired a life coach to help me my first year of undergrad (who I didn't do a good job listening to my first year). Second year comes around and I listen to him more and actually do better thanks to the help of someone extra we hired to be "boots on the ground" and monitor my study habits (we only had that extra help for one semester though). My parents kept him for all four years of my undergrad (this is important because I have a huge codependency issue now). I should note that I did all of my work independently and its not like the coach ever went out of their way to do my homework for me or something like that.

Fast forward to graduating and I had a lukewarm senior year (junior year was good albeit I had to withdraw a math course I was set to fail) because I took extremely difficult courses within my major (Psychology) and had a 3.1 overall GPA and a 3.48 major GPA (I think, can't remember). Since I went for a BS instead of a BA as well, I got Cs in foreign language courses and math (other than Calc II when I retook it and got a B. My undergrad didn't do plusses or minuses). I wanted to do a Ph.D, but I got rejected from everyone my first application cycle because I had no clue what I was doing at all.

Fast forward to my gap year and two coaches were hired to help me with my GRE and the graduate school application process. They helped me with emails, how to prep for interviews, and more related to the communication and professional pieces of the graduate school application process. I get admitted into 6/8 Master's program and my committee for the program I chose almost didn't let me graduate at all. I also ended up with a bad graduate GPA (3.48) due to a C+ that I got in a core course (this would be failing in grad school normally but my program counted it) and a B and B+ in two seminar classes because I got C-s on presentations (in what should be "easy A" classes). Fortunately, I did with a thesis. I even re-consulted the coach and they helped me with Ph.D applications too.

My first Ph.D advisor drops me my second year in the program because I lacked collateral skills to be a successful Ph.D in her eyes. Fortunately, I pass my qualifiers under her (for those who don't know, if someone doesn't pass qualifiers twice in a Ph.D program, its the end of the road). All research projects I worked on with her also got dropped completely (look up why publications are gold in the academic world for context). It's worth noting I didn't continue projects with my Master's advisor since he would reply to my emails irregularly and/or ghost me in the process. Fortunately, my current advisor took me and he wants me to graduate by December 2024 at the latest. Data collection is done so all I need to do is write up the Results and Discussion sections before defending it.

I am an internship that's going poorly for me and I come in panicky every day. I eventually have to present in front of the VP of Finance and other big wigs with a "portfolio" that showcases the work I've done during this internship. I'm going to ask my boss to waive this as well as the poster session at the end of this internship.

Since I'm still receiving support from this coach that my parents are paying for yet again for the past 2.5 years and am working with a life coach and therapist (notably, I'm paying him), I have not mastered living independently. I also have PTSD from how my first advisor treated me. Notably, the same coach who helped with graduate school applications is working with me again because she helps with job applications. I was originally supposed to graduate in 3 years with my first Ph.D advisor and the coach was supposed to be only a year to help me get a job lined up, but once the fallout with my first advisor happened, she was looped in for 2.5 more years up until now since I officially had to start a new research line with my current advisor and search for jobs knowing I'd run out of funding soon.

How can I become more independent and less reliant on my support systems? Notably, I have a bad habit of posting on other academic forums for external support when something is stressing me out to the point others notice and regulate my posts (not banned notably). I want to become more self sufficient and actually work in my field with less major difficulties. I'm trying to find a job that will accommodate me, but its incredibly difficult. Given that teaching flopped for me and got worse before it got better, I want to be a clinical research coordinator. However, I may be overqualified for that given that it only needs a bachelor's at minimum.

Welcome to Wrong Planet. I understand the difficulties of going to graduate school, as I had similar problems in my Ph.D. program (chemistry). My second research advisor violated graduate school rules and was thrown off of my committee after disclosing to members that he was going to vote against me at my defense. He did not get tenure and blamed me, so he attempted to set me up to fail. I had to do my dissertation without the guidance of an advisor. I passed my defense, but had six months of revisions that I had to make to graduate.

I decided not to publish scientific papers on my research work because I would have to add my former research advisor to the author list, even though he did not help me in any way with the project. My research was funded by myself out of my pocket after having two other projects pulled from me by my advisor (long story). I had enough results to publish: 30 never reported compounds, six with good crystal structures, plus all spectral data in one nice collection. My committee told me that I had enough for at least three publications, but I wanted the data buried in my final dissertation. It is to be forgotten by others for a reason.

It did hurt my career to do so initially. But, not forever as some had said it would. I have since published in the scientific journals, so it is now irrelevant. I survived the process and moved on in life. Someday you too will see grad school troubles in your backwards mirror.

As for becoming more self independence, you might have to force yourself to do things by yourself. It is not easy to do, but may get you where you want to be. Just realize that there are people who will help you if you really need them to. Take small baby steps toward a goal and try to reach that each day. Over time, you can track your progress to build upon each other until you set a higher goal for yourself. That is my advice. You can do with it as you see fit or not. It is how I work towards improving my life goals.

I appreciate you sharing your story because I don't feel as isolated of an incident anymore. It's truly horrible what folks in tenure track positions, even before they get tenure, can get away with at the graduate level. I am curious if, when you say out of pocket, do you mean they were from money you literally saved in this case? Or, was it from grants you obtained in this case that had to fund your projects? If you don't want to answer you don't have to in this case.

I'll also take the independence advice as well. I am going to work with vocational rehabilitation in my state (Ohio, where I'm doing my Ph.D is in Michigan but I don't need to be there in person any more since my dissertation data is collected at this point) to see if they can help at all. I'm not expecting much since there hasn't been a scientific solution to become an independent adult quite yet.

While I had the standard lab equipment, the majority of the chemical costs I paid for out of my pocket. I am not rich, as I had to take out student loans and other loans to make it work. One of the chemicals that I needed cost $200/gram, so I learned how to make it out of much cheaper materials. I made 30 grams of said material from $500 of chemicals. I also went to the chemical recycling program on the campus to find what chemicals I could get there for free. There was no grant money for me, that only went to the select group members who my advisor liked. He would not let me apply for grants. I spent more than $5000 out of my pocket for my research project.

When my father died, he was angry at me because I had not disclosed to him that he was sick with COPD when I joined his group. I got a two hour rant from him after the funeral about taking time off for the funeral was not in his plans. I never would had joined his group but I was forced into it. My previous research advisor was allowing an foreign postdoc to contaminate my research samples. I had photographic evidence of this and he did not want to do anything. I left his group and the other professor was the only one in my field taking grad students. He was a new hire, so I did not have a way of knowing how he would become later on.

One thing that all of this taught me is that I am a lot more resourceful with money than the average chemist. I have the ability to cobble together my equipment on the cheap, while others are waiting on grants to fund everything. That gives me a time advantage on some things.

That's something. Sounds like we both had awful advisors for different reasons then. Like you, I was forced to keep working with my first Ph.D advisor since she was the only one who had the background in the research area of my qualifier project (quals are empirical projects in my program instead of open note and open book exams). In my case though, she announced to me in March 2022 that she would commit to not advising me after she would leave the program in August 2022. So, I had only 6 months after that (even though my data was collected, she kept moving the goalpost on draft revisions) to get her to sign off on everything before her contract ended in this case and I could move on to the department chair as my advisor (he was sympathetic to my situation, fortunately). She signed off on everything on August 12th, which was three days before the August 15th deadline! Had she not signed off on it then, I couldn't have used my final assistantship I was eligible for in the third year of my Ph.D program. I'm also doing my program at an R2 institution with a Psychology department that thought applying for grants was "hypercompetitive and a waste of time" so its not like I could ask to be placed on someone else's grant and do work for them if the can was kicked down the road any further with ineligibility for internal funding.

As for the reason I had a fallout with my first advisor, it was because I asked to go back to my hometown for psychiatric treatment and if I could cancel running three participants. I got a one sentence reply that went, "Do what you need to do." When I emailed her on Sunday that I was back in town, she said that we should meet on Monday. That's when she broke the news that she thought the program wasn't for me because I didn't approach it with "maximum happiness" and how much of a mess the lab was in when she checked it (even though 80% of the reason was based on how her last graduate trained me) was evidence of that. I kept pushing back and got the ombudsman, student disability services, and office of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) involved, but to no avail at all. After the dust settled, I expressed my grievances with the chair of my department (the interim program director who I told my situation to said I should do so in case I could get some kind of remedy. I didn't other than being told he wants to see me through) and the DEI office director in this case. The DEI director doubled down that nothing could be done since they left the institution at this point. The first time I contacted the DEI office, they said they could launch an investigation but would have to stop once my first advisor's contract ended. Pretty awful stuff.

I have the ability to cobble things together too and find random "pockets of funding gold" in unexpected places, which is how I got a fellowship where I can accept up to $35k in exchange for 1 year of service to higher ed for every third I accept in this case.

What is your main occupation now (again, if you don't mind me asking)?

If you managed to play the game in academia this far you might want to call Saint Joseph’s University in Pennsylvania and talk to them about their autism life readiness program and center. If the location is not convenient they may be able to give you some ideas or similar programs in your own area.

My son just graduated with a BS in Biology (not from Saint Joseph’s) and we are working on the job hunting skills and life readiness skills, looking at support options.

@Fenn I looked on their website and it looks like their ASPIRE program only takes current students. I'm going to email them anyway to see if they can defer me to anyone in Ohio at the moment.

ETA: Looks like they offer remote services!

Major update: My boss/PI asked me if I'm hirable as of yesterday. I said yes with the caveat my graduation date will be December 2024 instead.

Transition nightmares I've mentioned to this job aside, I don't know about this job practically speaking either.

Any time the lead of my primary team (who has an MS in Data Science) does something he credits the entire team even though he's done 80% of the work. He's mentioned multiple times before that the person he wants to hire for the research coordinator position he suggested be like my lead. I do not have those skills whatsoever.

I'm convinced I won't take the offer even though my boss/PI has an h-index in the 120s and his within the last few years alone has been the 90s. It's something, but I'm not quite ready in all honesty.

I am a chemist in a university setting.

The web site is confusing and that goes only to show that they could have hired a professional writer and web tech. I think it would be worth a conversation. One program they have is for high school students who will never go to college but want a college-like experience. That is obviously not you, but it shows not app programs are for existing students. They have several different programs tailored to different groups that are not very clearly described on the web site. I have been over the website several different times and they have an interesting set of programs. And a poor website. If you talked to them and raised your specific concerns and needs and wants I think they would be willing to answer your questions, and they might know of other programs to try.

Other options are job coach, adhd coach (autism and adhd both have EF issues) so on. General purpose job hunting books can help but you have to read them, and I recommend reading as many as you can. Some things are simply practical - can you cook, can you do your own laundry, can you plan your day, and your week and follow through. Can you adjust when plans don’t go as planned. How are your people skills. Do you know how to interview. Workplace etiquette for the type of work you want. Can you buy your own clothes. Are the clothes you want consistent with etiquette rules of the type of work you want. Same for hair or facial hair. An important thing about job hunting for someone on the autism spectrum is to know what you are good at and to be able to tell your potential employer. For someone on the spectrum this is more important than people skills, but people skills will still be important. A coach of some kind might be able to help you navigate through all these.

@Fenn

The web site is confusing for sure. Now that you've explained that, it makes a lot more sense to me.

When it comes to self care, chores, and dressing appropriately, I can do all of those things just fine. I will say that shaving and showering go the wayside when I undergo sensory overload or autistic burnout (which is the state I've been stuck in for a little over two years now after my experience with the first Ph.D advisor I had who was super emotionally abusive).

People skills, networking, etc. are all the things I want to learn in my case. I did manage to get in touch with someone and they said they help those who aren't enrolled in the university and/or were former students. Regardless, that initial intake appointment will determine if that's all a fit for me in some capacity.

I should note that a major reason I'm consulting the services you recommended is because the coach I've been working with (and my parents have paid for the last three years until they split the bill with me recently due to the income I got from my visiting instructor position) does not know a lot about applying to jobs post graduate school and post Ph.D with a disability. If the program I enroll in can match me with internships, full jobs, etc. that would be ideal.

Who can function at what level is part if why people use the term spectrum. As a PhD candidate in psychology diagnosis I am sure you know a lot about this. I am sorry if I made any bad assumptions. I meant no disrespect. As I said we are working through things with my son a newly minted BS Bio. I have a BS CS (Computer Science). My son and I are both diagnosed on the spectrum. My son’s coach had a masters in History and was diagnosed ADHD. She stopped being able to effectively coach him when his Bio and Microbiology classes got too heavily technical. He needed to memorize hundreds of facts and compete lab reports, things she didn’t have personal experience with, and her well meaning advice was bad and made things worse.
He came home and my wife and I took over coaching. Most of the things I mentioned are things we have to tackle. Like he knows how to do laundry but cannot fathom why anyone would care.

You might want to use your new coach to make a list of new needs in a coach and coach you through the process of hiring a new coach more suited to your current needs.
One book that helped me a lot with job hunting was “What Color is my Parachute”. It contains everything I ever read in any other job hunting book, but with a balanced approach. There is a workbook too. My son is also working through “project management for dummies”. As a scientist he never got the “how to work through a project plan” stuff.
Like a business major might have.
Job hunting is a project.

I understand and it never struck me that you made any assumptions nor did I think you were disrespectful. So, it's all good.

I'll probably work with that coach to make a list of needs for sure (I made some items that could go in a list in prior posts).

I'll look into the book you recommended too.

I also got a couple of big questions from my boss and he's looking to hire me as one of his clinical research coordinators by the end of the internship. The good news is that he's going to assign me to teams that will fit with my background moreso than the teams I'm on right now. I voiced my concerns and he seems to understand so I'm a bit more confident in how things will look should he hire me.

Update: I met with a representative from the ASPIRE program and they gave me information that's a bit problematic.

1.) They've only worked with three other graduate level students.

I might also be reading too much into this, but the fact they lumped me in with graduate students in general is a bit concerning because some graduate degrees are for professional development and others are academic (like mine).

2.) They're going to get in touch with a clinical psychology faculty who leads ASPIRE by this Wednesday to discuss what to do with me.

I'm personally hoping I can connect with them and go from there for assistance, but I'm not holding my breath on that yet.

3.) Vocational rehabilitation can pay for ASPIRE. I'm going to see if my state (Ohio) will approve it. If not, I may not move forward with them since I don't see them as much different than the coach I have right now.

Sounds like you are making progress and taking positive steps. If you work with ASPIRE you may help them to be more ready to help others like you, and it sounds like they are willing to try. It couldn’t hurt and it might help.

If your current boss is willing to make you an offer that plays to your strengths, that may be a real win-win for both of you.

Please keep us posted.

@Fenn

I understand that working with ASPIRE may help others like me. At the same time though, I don't want to fall into working with well intended folks who might only be learning about the nature of finding work and the work folks in my field do, similar to what you mentioned about the mentor (the one with the Master's in history) who wasn't able to help your kid up until a particular point in their degree. I've had the runaround at a ton of different points in my education and I don't want that to happen ever again at this point.

Vocational rehabilitation is a different story since they're the only other source who can write Schedule A letters and fund other services that may be of assistance for me so I don't need to foot the bill myself.

In the meantime, I'm hoping I can get more mileage out of this internship as I approach the end date of August 9th very soon and have my first Ohio vocational rehabilitation appointment on August 5th.