Thelibrarian
Veteran
Joined: 5 Aug 2012
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,948
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
22 Oct 2013, 1:40 pm
higeyuki wrote:
Now your just taking an ideology and twisting the actual word meaning. 
"Willing to discard traditional values"? That's a laugh; modern liberalism demands traditional values be discarded as "racist", "sexist", homophobic, etc. etc. etc.
Liberalism is:
--A belief in change and innovation, oftentimes for its own sake, also called modernism, and now postmodernism.
--A belief that the individual transcends everything else--especially God and reality, oftentimes called secular humanism. Liberal individuality necessarily descends in to narcissism, of which this definition is a good example.
--A belief that in radical egalitarianism that is more conceit than actuality (e.g., a good liberal will tell you in one breath that IQ doesn't matter, and with their next breath that their IQ's are higher than anybody else's).
--A belief in universalism and internationalism, and a strong antipathy toward nationalism that is also more conceit than actuality, since liberalism really only celebrates diversity as long as we're all the same--i.e., like them.
--A conceit that they believe in liberty and democracy. The reality is that people are free to do anything as long as it is within circumscribed liberal values; anything else is "hate". For the liberal, democracy isn't rule by the people, but rule of the people by liberal elites according to what they think the people should want. To the good liberal, the people are nothing more than an abstraction.
Thelibrarian wrote:
higeyuki wrote:
All this talk about liberal has me believing most people have forgotten the actual word meaning.
Liberal:
adjective
1. open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values:
they have more liberal views toward marriage and divorce than some people
favorable to or respectful of individual rights and freedoms:
liberal citizenship laws
(in a political context) favoring maximum individual liberty in political and social reform:
a liberal democratic state
(Liberal) of or characteristic of Liberals or a Liberal Party.
(Liberal) (in the UK) of or relating to the Liberal Democrat Party:
the Liberal leader
Theology regarding many traditional beliefs as dispensable, invalidated by modern thought, or liable to change.
2 [attributive] (of education) concerned mainly with broadening a person’s general knowledge and experience, rather than with technical or professional training.
3. (especially of an interpretation of a law) broadly construed or understood; not strictly literal or exact:
they could have given the 1968 Act a more liberal interpretation
4. given, used, or occurring in generous amounts:
liberal amounts of wine had been consumed
(of a person) giving generously:
Sam was too liberal with the wine
Copied and pasted from the Oxford dictionary.
By the definition everyone is 'liberal' from time to time. No exceptions. Orwell was on to something when he came up with the idea of 'doublespeak.' Words losing meaning and being used for manipulative purposes.
Then again as a country America is approaching the 350 year mark where every 'democratic' society seems to crumble.
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville
Capitalism, government, money, are all grand delusions. Capitalism is where the poor work hard to make much money for the rich man.
Nothing lasts forever and yeah I don't think our 'economy' is going to get any 'better' soon. We need to be reminded of how we are a community of incredibly social creatures and reassert this into our way of thinking and living. Help everyone around you as we are a small piece of the intricate clock that represents humanity and the universe.
So much anti-education, anti-humanist, anti-caring in this world. We need more self educated, creative people to invent new things that make such positions as low end jobs obsolete. Self automated McDonald's and worker less retail stores are the future as technology will soon permit this as reality. This is the position of most major companies to increase the use of technology and have relatively little to zero staff involved in the production of goods.
Reclassifying 'full time' to be around 30 hours instead of 40 hours would in theory create more jobs. Though with that reclassification we would also have to raise wages to maintain a 'living wage.' For every job available there are 2.5-4 people who need a job in almost every given job category.
I don't know. I could rant all day, however it will never change anything. Only action changes something.
“The secret of change is to focus all of your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new.”
― Socrates
Arguing about how it is instead of working toward how you want it to be is pointless and will only result in people running in circles.
Liberal:
adjective
1. open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values:
they have more liberal views toward marriage and divorce than some people
favorable to or respectful of individual rights and freedoms:
liberal citizenship laws
(in a political context) favoring maximum individual liberty in political and social reform:
a liberal democratic state
(Liberal) of or characteristic of Liberals or a Liberal Party.
(Liberal) (in the UK) of or relating to the Liberal Democrat Party:
the Liberal leader
Theology regarding many traditional beliefs as dispensable, invalidated by modern thought, or liable to change.
2 [attributive] (of education) concerned mainly with broadening a person’s general knowledge and experience, rather than with technical or professional training.
3. (especially of an interpretation of a law) broadly construed or understood; not strictly literal or exact:
they could have given the 1968 Act a more liberal interpretation
4. given, used, or occurring in generous amounts:
liberal amounts of wine had been consumed
(of a person) giving generously:
Sam was too liberal with the wine
Copied and pasted from the Oxford dictionary.
By the definition everyone is 'liberal' from time to time. No exceptions. Orwell was on to something when he came up with the idea of 'doublespeak.' Words losing meaning and being used for manipulative purposes.
Then again as a country America is approaching the 350 year mark where every 'democratic' society seems to crumble.
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville
Capitalism, government, money, are all grand delusions. Capitalism is where the poor work hard to make much money for the rich man.
Nothing lasts forever and yeah I don't think our 'economy' is going to get any 'better' soon. We need to be reminded of how we are a community of incredibly social creatures and reassert this into our way of thinking and living. Help everyone around you as we are a small piece of the intricate clock that represents humanity and the universe.
So much anti-education, anti-humanist, anti-caring in this world. We need more self educated, creative people to invent new things that make such positions as low end jobs obsolete. Self automated McDonald's and worker less retail stores are the future as technology will soon permit this as reality. This is the position of most major companies to increase the use of technology and have relatively little to zero staff involved in the production of goods.
Reclassifying 'full time' to be around 30 hours instead of 40 hours would in theory create more jobs. Though with that reclassification we would also have to raise wages to maintain a 'living wage.' For every job available there are 2.5-4 people who need a job in almost every given job category.
I don't know. I could rant all day, however it will never change anything. Only action changes something.
“The secret of change is to focus all of your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new.”
― Socrates
Arguing about how it is instead of working toward how you want it to be is pointless and will only result in people running in circles.
"Willing to discard traditional values"? That's a laugh; modern liberalism demands traditional values be discarded as "racist", "sexist", homophobic, etc. etc. etc.
Liberalism is:
--A belief in change and innovation, oftentimes for its own sake, also called modernism, and now postmodernism.
--A belief that the individual transcends everything else--especially God and reality, oftentimes called secular humanism. Liberal individuality necessarily descends in to narcissism, of which this definition is a good example.
--A belief that in radical egalitarianism that is more conceit than actuality (e.g., a good liberal will tell you in one breath that IQ doesn't matter, and with their next breath that their IQ's are higher than anybody else's).
--A belief in universalism and internationalism, and a strong antipathy toward nationalism that is also more conceit than actuality, since liberalism really only celebrates diversity as long as we're all the same--i.e., like them.
--A conceit that they believe in liberty and democracy. The reality is that people are free to do anything as long as it is within circumscribed liberal values; anything else is "hate". For the liberal, democracy isn't rule by the people, but rule of the people by liberal elites according to what they think the people should want. To the good liberal, the people are nothing more than an abstraction.
Really? Please explain.
22 Oct 2013, 2:20 pm
auntblabby
Veteran
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 114,569
Location: the island of defective toy santas
22 Oct 2013, 3:49 pm
Thelibrarian
Veteran
Joined: 5 Aug 2012
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,948
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
22 Oct 2013, 3:53 pm
auntblabby
Veteran
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 114,569
Location: the island of defective toy santas
22 Oct 2013, 3:56 pm
Thelibrarian wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
a disservice has been done to the OP, IMHO. he wanted to vent about his situation and life in america, and instead it turned into a political debate.
Blabby, I agree that this thread has gone political. But the OP's plight is a political plight. Politics matter.
but bringing this nation back to the 1890s as you would like, would only hurt people like the OP and me. it would have been better had a few or more of us had figured out how to comfort the OP instead of bringing up politics. as they say, there is a time to spout proust and a time to skip it.
Thelibrarian
Veteran
Joined: 5 Aug 2012
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,948
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
22 Oct 2013, 4:01 pm
auntblabby wrote:
Thelibrarian wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
a disservice has been done to the OP, IMHO. he wanted to vent about his situation and life in america, and instead it turned into a political debate.
Blabby, I agree that this thread has gone political. But the OP's plight is a political plight. Politics matter.
but bringing this nation back to the 1890s as you would like, would only hurt people like the OP and me. it would have been better had a few or more of us had figured out how to comfort the OP instead of bringing up politics. as they say, there is a time to spout proust and a time to skip it.
Bring us back to the 1890's? My point is that we are still using the model from the 1890's Gilded Age, called liberalism, and we badly need a change.
My gosh. Is my writing really that unclear?
auntblabby
Veteran
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 114,569
Location: the island of defective toy santas
22 Oct 2013, 4:16 pm
Thelibrarian wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
Thelibrarian wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
a disservice has been done to the OP, IMHO. he wanted to vent about his situation and life in america, and instead it turned into a political debate.
Blabby, I agree that this thread has gone political. But the OP's plight is a political plight. Politics matter.
but bringing this nation back to the 1890s as you would like, would only hurt people like the OP and me. it would have been better had a few or more of us had figured out how to comfort the OP instead of bringing up politics. as they say, there is a time to spout proust and a time to skip it.
Bring us back to the 1890's? My point is that we are still using the model from the 1890's Gilded Age, called liberalism, and we badly need a change. My gosh. Is my writing really that unclear?
i myself am unclear often enough- this said, your accumulated writings gave me the impression you were in karl rove's corner philosophically, he has said the gilded age was the greatest american age in his opinion. your writings made me think you were against all protective actions the government takes to restrain the depredations of the rich against the poor. your writings also made me think you believe that anybody not infected with the horatio alger gene is somehow "unamerican" and suspect in your opinion.
Thelibrarian
Veteran
Joined: 5 Aug 2012
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,948
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
22 Oct 2013, 4:22 pm
auntblabby wrote:
Thelibrarian wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
Thelibrarian wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
a disservice has been done to the OP, IMHO. he wanted to vent about his situation and life in america, and instead it turned into a political debate.
Blabby, I agree that this thread has gone political. But the OP's plight is a political plight. Politics matter.
but bringing this nation back to the 1890s as you would like, would only hurt people like the OP and me. it would have been better had a few or more of us had figured out how to comfort the OP instead of bringing up politics. as they say, there is a time to spout proust and a time to skip it.
Bring us back to the 1890's? My point is that we are still using the model from the 1890's Gilded Age, called liberalism, and we badly need a change. My gosh. Is my writing really that unclear?
i myself am unclear often enough- this said, your accumulated writings gave me the impression you were in karl rove's corner philosophically, he has said the gilded age was the greatest american age in his opinion. your writings made me think you were against all protective actions the government takes to restrain the depredations of the rich against the poor. your writings also made me think you believe that anybody not infected with the horatio alger gene is somehow "unamerican" and suspect in your opinion.
Personally, I find Rove and Republicans to be as abhorrent as I do the Democrats. Both are in favor of the same policies that are immiserating the American people. BOTH parties are bad news, and for the same reasons: They both guarantee ever-increasing numbers of young people no future beyond poverty and misery. I'm not sure how much more plain I can be.
auntblabby
Veteran
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 114,569
Location: the island of defective toy santas
22 Oct 2013, 4:25 pm
Thelibrarian
Veteran
Joined: 5 Aug 2012
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,948
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
22 Oct 2013, 4:31 pm
auntblabby
Veteran
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 114,569
Location: the island of defective toy santas
22 Oct 2013, 4:34 pm
Thelibrarian wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
i guess i just don't comprehend how in any way shape or form the repubs and dems have any similarities whatsoever.
There are differences between the Democrats and Republicans to be sure. They are primarily rhetorical differences though. On the policies that are immiserating ever greater numbers of Americans--free trade and open borders--both parties are in total agreement. Both parties have supported the shabby trade deals that offshore our jobs, and both parties have fought hard for ever larger numbers of immigrants to bid down wages on the jobs that are left. Until this problem is understood and acted upon, things will only get worse. Thus, the political nature of the OP.
you expressed that very well, well enough for even unclear me to get it. 
Thelibrarian
Veteran
Joined: 5 Aug 2012
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,948
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
22 Oct 2013, 4:40 pm
auntblabby wrote:
Thelibrarian wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
i guess i just don't comprehend how in any way shape or form the repubs and dems have any similarities whatsoever.
There are differences between the Democrats and Republicans to be sure. They are primarily rhetorical differences though. On the policies that are immiserating ever greater numbers of Americans--free trade and open borders--both parties are in total agreement. Both parties have supported the shabby trade deals that offshore our jobs, and both parties have fought hard for ever larger numbers of immigrants to bid down wages on the jobs that are left. Until this problem is understood and acted upon, things will only get worse. Thus, the political nature of the OP.
you expressed that very well, well enough for even unclear me to get it. Blabby, I've been on my own since I was sixteen, and have been where the OP is right now. I swore to myself that if I ever escaped that vicious cycle of low-paying jobs and their attendant poverty, I would never forget where I came from. I am merely trying to keep that promise to myself.
03 Nov 2013, 12:19 pm
auntblabby
Veteran
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 114,569
Location: the island of defective toy santas
03 Nov 2013, 12:57 pm
03 Nov 2013, 2:04 pm
03 Nov 2013, 4:33 pm
