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f***ing low wages low hours... f*ck capitalism

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Thelibrarian
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11 Oct 2013, 12:13 pm

auntblabby wrote:
the OP likely needs some sort of ombudsman to help him navigate the benefits application process.


Yes, the welfare state was developed to deal with capitalism's flaws, namely that it tends to leave lots of people behind, even under the best of circumstances.



Fnord
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11 Oct 2013, 12:15 pm

auntblabby wrote:
capitalism only works properly for capitalists.

Only half right.

Capitalism works for those who become Capitalists in a Capitalistic economy.

Capitalism does not work well for people who live as Socialists in a Capitalist economy, or for Capitalists in a Socialist economy - although Capitalists in a Socialist economy may live better than their purely Socialist comrades.

If people want to live well in a Capitalist economy, then they should learn to live as Capitalists.


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auntblabby
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11 Oct 2013, 12:19 pm

not everybody can easily learn to be a capitalist, this takes social intelligence of which a lot of us on this forum have issues. we don't all have the horatio alger genes. the people that DO have the horatio alger genes tend to be insufferably arch towards everybody else, lumping them all together as "useless eaters."



Thelibrarian
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11 Oct 2013, 12:22 pm

Fnord wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
capitalism only works properly for capitalists.

Only half right.

Capitalism works for those who become Capitalists in a Capitalistic economy.

Capitalism does not work well for people who live as Socialists in a Capitalist economy, or for Capitalists in a Socialist economy - although Capitalists in a Socialist economy may live better than their purely Socialist comrades.

If people want to live well in a Capitalist economy, then they should learn to live as Capitalists.


Fnord, your position assumes that we were all created equal. The reason right-liberals--or those who worship the free market and all its trappings--believe in equality for different reasons than left liberals. When the rich banker looks upon his immiserated janitor, he can console himself by thinking that since the janitor is equal to him, and hence has the same abilities, that the real reason the janitor didn't attend Harvard Business School was laziness. This is simply not the case, though I am hardly arguing that income should be distributed equally. What I am arguing for is my favorite line from Andrew Jackson: It is not the place of government to make worse or better the natural inequalities existing between us. And for many years now, the government has been making natural inequalities worse.



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11 Oct 2013, 12:26 pm

One person blames "genetics" the other person blames "government".

No one ever blames themselves.


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auntblabby
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11 Oct 2013, 12:29 pm

:roll: ones genes ARE oneself!



Thelibrarian
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11 Oct 2013, 12:31 pm

Fnord wrote:
One person blames "genetics" the other person blames "government".

No one ever blames themselves.


Fnord, I will discount the role of genetics when you can pull yourself up by your own bootstraps and make yourself an NT, the short can make themselves tall, and, yes, the less intelligent can make themselves more intelligent.

Ironically, if the last possibility were really possible, Marxism would have become a reality. Biology is real.
As far as government is concerned, if government policy really didn't matter, it wouldn't matter either who is in office. One of government's primary characteristics is that it has a monopoly on force. As such, it is very powerful, and it uses that power to benefit the politically connected. This is the reason the founding fathers were suspicious of government, and wanted it as small as possible.



Last edited by Thelibrarian on 11 Oct 2013, 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thelibrarian
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11 Oct 2013, 12:32 pm

auntblabby wrote:
:roll: ones genes ARE oneself!


Yes, I will second, even if I'm not a complete determinist.



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11 Oct 2013, 4:45 pm

auntblabby wrote:
capitalism only works properly for capitalists.


Capitalism tends to lift everyone up.

Compare the poor of today in the US with the poor of today in China.



eric76
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11 Oct 2013, 4:47 pm

Many public libraries have Internet available for their patrons. One could get along okay without it if near most public libraries.



auntblabby
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11 Oct 2013, 4:48 pm

eric76 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
capitalism only works properly for capitalists.


Capitalism tends to lift everyone up. Compare the poor of today in the US with the poor of today in China.

tell that to the homeless.



eric76
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11 Oct 2013, 4:50 pm

auntblabby wrote:
eric76 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
capitalism only works properly for capitalists.


Capitalism tends to lift everyone up. Compare the poor of today in the US with the poor of today in China.

tell that to the homeless.


So how do the percentage of homeless today compare to the percentage of homeless before Capitalism?



Thelibrarian
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11 Oct 2013, 4:53 pm

eric76 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
capitalism only works properly for capitalists.


Capitalism tends to lift everyone up.

Compare the poor of today in the US with the poor of today in China.


Eric, there is no doubt that capitalism and its attendant right-liberalism are the most powerful secular forces on the planet due to incredible productivity. Therefore, capitalism can and should lift everyone up. The problem is that increasingly it is not. There are no longer enough jobs for Americans, much less the hundred thousand legal immigrants being admitted every month. And even if one is lucky enough to land a job, too many of them no longer pay enough to support an individual, much less a family. So, if you wish to preserve capitalism, as I do, we had best recognize what is going on now and deal with it. One thing I can promise you is that you wouldn't like a socialist economy; they are everything they are reputed to be, and less. These are our choices: Reform capitalism to make it work for as many people as possible, or face socialism.



Thelibrarian
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11 Oct 2013, 4:55 pm

eric76 wrote:
Many public libraries have Internet available for their patrons. One could get along okay without it if near most public libraries.


Eric, since I run a public library with public Internet access, I can say with authority that you are correct. But having Internet is not enough. People need a way to support themselves as well.



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11 Oct 2013, 4:57 pm

^^^
it seems the last rich person to understand the need to reform capitalism [give it a more human face] or else, was FDR.



Thelibrarian
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11 Oct 2013, 5:00 pm

auntblabby wrote:
^^^
it seems the last rich person to understand the need to reform capitalism [give it a more human face] or else, was FDR.


I would agree that FDR was the last prominent politician to realize what I am saying, and under similarly trying circumstances. But since the politicians of both parties long ago sold their worthless souls to the elites who are causing these problems, this reformist impulse was completely dead by the time of Nixon.

But there are others who recognize what I am saying, such as Pat Choate and Pat Buchanan.