Refering to females as "ladies" is dangerous in workplace

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Fenn
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24 Jun 2023, 8:07 am

Thought Police?

MaxE
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24 Jun 2023, 8:45 am

All I can say is that using "ladies" as a form of address can seem dismissive in some contexts. I don't think I'd do it in a professional situation. Recently I was working together with three people who were all female on an effort to print some notices for correctness. I can't see myself addressing them as a group that way although the reasons are hard to analyze. It's not at all equivalent to addressing a group of men as "Gentlemen" as some have suggested. Imagine a situation in which a woman does something annoying such as failing to keep her toddler quiet in a shop, and a man expresses his annoyance by saying to her "Lady, can't you keep that kid quiet?". It's not exactly respectful. "Gentleman" would never be used the same way. Also, in the situation I described earlier working with the 3 women, addressing them as "Ladies" could be seem as an expression of inherent male superiority although I'd be hard pressed to explain exactly why.

It's also possible some members of that committee had prior encounters with the guy that left a bad impression and suspicion of a sense of male entitlement.

Interesting how these situations mostly involve men in a position of authority. Men who work with women with equal or superior job status usually know how to communicate with those women without giving offense.

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24 Jun 2023, 8:55 am

uncommondenominator wrote:

I feel like there's more to it than just having used the term "ladies" in and of itself.

Before simply assuming that the women must be overreacting, and trying to stamp "woke" all over it, I'd wanna actually see what was written. Cos context matters.

That is a good comment.

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Joe90
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24 Jun 2023, 9:00 am

I always thought words like ladies and gentlemen was the most formal way to describe people. When I volunteered at a charity shop we all had to use lady/ladies and gentleman/gentlemen when referring to customers. For example when a man wanted assistance I had to say to the manager "this gentleman wants your assistance". That sounded both formal and non-offensive. Using a word like "bloke" would sound too common and informal - but still nothing to go Karen over though.

I like being called lady. It makes me feel dignified.

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Last edited by Joe90 on 24 Jun 2023, 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

KitLily
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24 Jun 2023, 9:06 am

I think also, ladies and gentlemen have different connotations in England and in America.

I can't imagine anyone in England saying, 'lady keep that kid quiet', for example. We just don't use it like that. We usually say, 'can you give this item to the lady over there please?'

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KitLily
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24 Jun 2023, 9:08 am

MaxE wrote:

Those are excellent points, MaxE ! And if someone asked a man to keep a kid quiet, it would be phrased as 'Sir, can't you...' which is more respectful.

There's probably more to this Ladies/email situation than meets the eye.

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Joe90
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24 Jun 2023, 9:15 am

Why is Karen censored? I mean, what if someone is called Karen?

Testing: I saw my friend Karen today.

Wow. I'd be well pissed off if my name was so offensive it got censored out.

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24 Jun 2023, 9:23 am

Joe90 wrote:

Why is Ka*n censored? I mean, what if someone is called Ka*n?

Testing: I saw my friend Ka*n today.

Wow. I'd be well pissed off if my name was so offensive it got censored out.

If the word censored is Karen K A R E N, it is because

Cornflake wrote:

it's a sexist generalization attempting to create a hated sub-class of women.

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24 Jun 2023, 9:35 am

And if your name was actually Karen you could shorten it to Kaz to not have it censored.

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24 Jun 2023, 9:43 am

Honey69 wrote:

I suppose that he could have typed

Quote:

Hey, b*****s! I want more vacation time!

Now that is offensive.
Everyone knows the proper way is,
“Yo, b*****s!”

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MatchboxVagabond
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24 Jun 2023, 10:06 am

KitLily wrote:

It's phatic speech. Some people don't recognize one or the other interpretations of the word "lady." In the US, they're both generally understood, although the context would give some indication. Usually that first example would come dripping with so much snark, sarcasm and eye rolling that it's absolutely clear that the word is being used ironically.

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24 Jun 2023, 11:47 am

Here is an actual social "science" paper on the subject

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-0760/8/2/56

The Abstract wrote:

Are there ladies and gentlemen in the 21st century? Do we need them? In the 20th century, lady became particularly unpopular with second wave feminists, who preferred ‘woman’. Gentleman was seen as similarly politically incorrect: class, race and culture bound. Following previous research on the word lady, we explore here some current evocations and debates around these words. We consider how the more casual, etymologically gendered term ‘guy’ has been utilized for men and women, and how it functions to reflect and obscure gender. While the return of the lady might be considered a consumer fad, a neo-conservative post-feminist backlash, or nostalgia for an elite ‘polite society’, it also offers an opportunity for a deeper discussion about civility as part of a broader conversation that is gaining impetus in the Western world. Politeness is personal and political. Whilst evidence for a comeback of the gentleman is limited, we critically consider the re-emergence of the lady as reflecting a deeper desire for applied sexual and social ethics. Such gender ethics have global, social and cultural ramifications that we ought not to underestimate. The desire for a culture of civility is gaining momentum as we are increasingly confronted with the violent consequences of a culture without it.

So, how is one expected to address a group of people these days, without offending anyone?

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24 Jun 2023, 1:02 pm

Honey69 wrote:

So, how is one expected to address a group of people these days, without offending anyone?

""Hey f***heads!" works for me.

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Honey69
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24 Jun 2023, 1:14 pm

MaxE wrote:

""Hey f***heads!" works for me.

"f***heads" doesn't get censored, so it must be fine.

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Joe90
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24 Jun 2023, 1:28 pm

Honey69 wrote:

MaxE wrote:

""Hey f***heads!" works for me.

"f***heads" doesn't get censored, so it must be fine.

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Honey69
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24 Jun 2023, 1:36 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yysKhJ1 ... hBillMaher

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