What is the big deal about dress?

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I understand that if a company has a particular dress code, it should be adhered to (and generally I have no problem with actually dressing the way the company desires). However, what I've never understood is why such a large emphasis is placed on dress in so many places.

Yesterday, my dad gives this huge rant at me over how I don't take clothing seriously. The place I work at is completely casual, and the only non-employees that ever come into the office are the mailman and if someone needs something fixed. I'd be out of place there with a shirt-and-tie on (I wore that to the interview and was told flat-out that it was too much). I don't have such a problem with the dressing down, as I find collars to be downright choking hazards. Yet that didnt stop the rant at all, with my dad saying I should be "one level above" the dress code at all times.

Again, I don't have a problem physically meeting the demands; if an employer says to dress a certain way (or it is otherwise listed in a dress code), I do so. I take notice of other employees and how they dress when on-site for an interview (which I generally go full suit for, or at least shirt-and-tie) to answer that question if it is not clearly stated. Yet I still don't understand why people do it... the only explanation I get is something about how one's worth as a human being is judged based on what they're wearing, and I can't find that to be anything but a bunch of BS.

I would say don't worry what your dad says, if how you dress is ok at your job there is no problem.

Hello ToadOfSteel,

With regard to your workplace itself, obviously you know better than your dad. I would understand where he was coming from otherwise, because Aspies tend not to pick up on things* and he may know better than you what works in general. But given that they actually told you that a shirt and tie is too much, then if you have no dress code problems at your job keep doing what you're doing.

Even at your workplace, dress matters a lot. That's why they said shirt-and-tie is too much, not that it's OK but unnecessary. The way you dress sends signals about you. In particular, if you dress differently those around you, you're setting yourself apart. People commonly (not necessarily fairly, but commonly) interpret that as your thinking you're better than others.

As for your worth as a human being...yes, how you dress doesn't conclusively determine that...then again, what does? People have to use whatever information they can get, and one thing we Aspies need to come to terms with is that NTs generally send and receive a much broader repertoire of signals than we can even understand. Also, most people know that nothing is 100% guaranteed, so judging people is a matter of estimating the odds and going with relative likelihoods.

So no, if you dress a little dowdy that doesn't mean you must be an apathetic, disrespectful, lazy slob. On the other hand, you're more likely to be one than someone who always dresses neatly and stylishly. And since no one has infinite time or attention, we tend to focus our efforts on people who are most likely from the get-go to be the kind of folks we want to hang out with, work with, even date. And if we're wrong about them, we can always reject them later on.

That's another reason it's important to follow society's established signals. If people wrongly accept someone who turns out to be a jerk, they can always change their minds later. But if people unfairly reject you...that's it. They're generally not associating with you anymore, so there's little or no opportunity to change their minds. "You don't get a second chance to make a first impression."

[*] Not to mention that things like proper dress are not high on the list of topics that people are willing to give you a fair heads-up on. For some reason, folks are very uncomfortable talking about things like that...but not too uncomfortable to judge you based on that.

What do you think?

Clothes communicate a lot of information about a person. Think of it as dressing for a role on stage. How do we know that one of the men on stage is a lawyer while the other is an auto mechanic? Generally, that information is at least partially conveyed by what they're wearing.

Also, clothing can convey whether or not the person cares for themselves well -- are the clothes clean, or is there evidence that the person's been wearing the same T-shirt for three consecutive breakfasts? This is from where the idea that a person's clothes reflect their worth is derived. It's not so much their objective value, though, but how much they value themselves and whether or not they believe people will like them that is reflected in the care they give to themselves and their clothes. For one of the handful of dates I've had since my husband passed, I had a young man show up for our first date wearing a T-shirt with holes in it, ratty shorts and run-down tennis shoes. He was a 35 year old IT professional. As it turns out, he had shown up expecting to not get a second date. (He did get a second and a third, before I decided it was a lost cause. He was too much like my late husband.) It can also be an indicator of depression if a person stops caring for themselves, and usually, people just feel better if they feel they look tidy, the same way living in an untidy house can be depressing and irritating.

In most situations, it's best to mimic the clothing style of the group you're associating with. That's how a lot of people decide, even in social activities, if a particular individual is someone who will hold similar ideas or values, have similar likes or dislikes. It also helps to create solidarity in groups that are made up of a lot of individuals from different backgrounds. It's part of the idea behind uniforms.

That said, it can also send a message if you are dressing similarly to your peers but with just a bit more care and attention. It makes a person stand out in a "I'm not just a team player, I'm an MVP" kind of way. There's an old business adage that a person shouldn't dress for the position they have, but for the position they want to have. The idea is that if they see themselves in this position and dress as if they already were, then other people will be able to see them fulfilling this role more easily, too. This is likely where your dad's coming from, but he's making a mistake in trying to get you to dress in a tie for an office that is extremely casual. You were specifically told not to dress that way, so doing so would be a mistake.

What you could do would be to just pay more attention to the wardrobe you already wear to work. You might set aside a couple of pairs of newer jeans just for work and replace them once they start to look a bit worn. Or maybe, if you wear chinos, press them instead of just wearing them straight out of the dryer. Make sure your T-shirts or sweaters are in good repair and neat. Maybe splurge a little on a decent jacket to wear over them -- I've got a three year old leather blazer that just gets better looking as it ages.

Your dad is worried about your future. He's probably seeing that you are blending well with your company and feels that you may blend too well and be passed over for promotions and special projects, simply because you're just one of the crowd. It may help if you can invite him for a tour of the office, so he can see where you're working, the kind of work you do and the people with whom you're working. It may help allay some of his worries if you can talk to him about your plans for the future and show him that, well, that you have some and that you're not just planning on skating along it this position for the rest of your life. And let him know that while your plans may not be what he would prefer or dreamed of for you, they are your plans and dreams, and you are comfortable with them.

There is ample evidence that NTs place way too much emphasis on clothes

http://www.dressforsuccess.org/whatwedo.aspx
An organization that provides professional clothing for the disadvantaged, as well as job training.

Shows on TV like What Not to Wear

Books like Dress for Success

While it may not matter to Aspies, chances are you won't be lucky enough to live and work in a community of Aspies.

Toad, I think I know where your father is coming from. I had a brother who was as utterly charming (a sociopath) as I am devoid of charm; he could've sold cigarettes to the surgeon general. As such, he could get away with the most outrageous things, and everybody was as forgiving as they could be. What I'm getting at is that charm seems to allow for indulgences not permitted to the less charming. Unlike affirmative action groups, we really do have to be twice as good.

I've never actually talked to anybody who would admit to having AS. But I've met a lot of people whom I would suspect of having it. A particularly brilliant professor comes to mind. He certainly flouted the dress conventions; he wore brightly colored high top canvas sneakers (before such things were popular) and a Gilligan hat. He had some other peculiarities too, but you get the point.

The last time I checked, he had been promoted to dean of the department. The reason is that since we aspies can very innocently think about things that would abhor normal, well socialized people, we frequently come up with brilliant ideas.

I think what your father is getting at is that since you have AS, you're likely not to have winning ways with people. So, unless you can dazzle your employer with your brilliance, you're not going to get away with much departure from company norms of behavior. But if you're up to standards, I wouldn't worry about it.

The point is I am meeting the standards within my company. If their standards changed, or if i changed jobs and worked for a company with higher standards (of which 99% of the companies in the greater NYC area would have), I would adjust accordingly. My dad just seems to think it's wrong for me to work anywhere in anything less than at least business-casual

Last edited by ToadOfSteel on 28 Dec 2011, 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ToadOfSteel, maybe it's a generational thing with your dad and he can't imagine an office actually wanting people to dress casual. And if that's the way they want it, then they don't want one guy to start dressing up because then people are gonna feel pressured to do that too and before you know it, casual is gone. If it's my business, I would want it casual and I'd be willing to fire the guy who tried to sabotage that in my office! Can you bring your dad to the office one day so he can see you really are fitting in? Or maybe take a picture of your coworkers and show it to him?

And if that doesn't work start wearing a suit around the house and anywhere you go with him just to tick him off!

Unfortunately, that wouldn't work. He'd just go on about how good I look all the time and other associated BS. The only way I can think of would be to wear a suit to a more casual dinner place, get it dirty, and slap him with the dry cleaning bill...

Pschristmas, good point about dressing for the position you hope to have and dressing with a bit more care than others. I did not address that because it doesn't seem to be a factor in ToadOfSteel's situation, as he's pointed out. Putting aside that he and I might both be wrong, many people really can stand to dress up a notch or two.

BTDT, perhaps from our perspective NTs pay too much attention to dress. From many others' perspective, some of us pay much too little. As you rightly point out, few of us will be lucky enough to work for Aspies only - and even those few may have bosses whose eye for detail leads them to insist on overly strict dress codes.

Thank you very kindly for pointing us to good resources. Allow me to add a couple into the mix:

Jo-Ellan Dimitrius' and Wendy Patrick Mazzarella's Reading People: How to Understand People and Predict Their Behavior - Anytime, Anyplace. Dr. Dimitrius is a trial attorney and jury consultant who lives and dies based on how well she can read potential jurors, not to mention opposing attorneys, her own clients, etc. Ms. Mazzarella is also a trial attorney who's worked both sides of the aisle in criminal cases.

Then, once you have an idea of why and how people make assessments of you, check out Dr. Dimitrius' and Mark Mazzarella's Put Your Best Foot Forward: Make a Great Impression by Taking Control of How Others See You. Mr. Mazzarella is also a trial attorney.

Dunnyveg, good point: The more you please people, the more mistakes and deviances - up to a point - you can get away with. In general, people would rather work with a likable dunderhead than a brilliant boor, so you need to be really good at what you do - not just objectively but compared to everyone else - to survive if you're pissing people off. That's especially truethese days.

In my opinion, most Aspies would need less time, effort and brain-redirection to learn to stop pissing people off than to get excellent enough to still be tolerable.

InTheDeepEnd, trust me - the slide in dress codes nowadays is very much in the opposite direction. The slippery slope leans toward more casual wear. People see somebody coming in with a T-shirt, shorts and flip-flops and figure they can do the same thing. Bosses crack down on overly-casual dressers for that reason.

That said, maybe we're getting a bit beyond ToadOfSteel's own situation. Perhaps we can start a new thread about this?

It's a generational thing; your Dad probably comes from a generation where the color of your collar determined your social class...

Last edited by mushroo on 28 Dec 2011, 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

OP is correct - the emphasis our society puts on clothing is stupid. The reason it matters to so many people, though, is because they put a lot of weight on first impressions. If you look professional they trust and respect you more. As I said, it's incredibly stupid, but then, people are.

I recently heard a story about how, in my area, there was recently this conman who dressed up like a professional businessman and basically talked people into giving him their money, and he was fairly successful in doing so, because a lot of people naturally trusted him without question.

So, for very illogical and, quite frankly, pathetic reasons, the clothing you wear does matter to an extent. That said, if your workplace is casual, and you're willing to dress smart when doing so is required, you have little to worry about anyway, unless you want to become a conman

i have problems with dress codes, and i don't like to conform. usually i find a way to fit the dress code while still being highly individual.

ToadofSteel, i saw some great advice in the book Rules of Work that advises people to wear top-notch clothing that still fits the dress code standards. so essentially, if jeans are worn - make them designer jeans. if t-shirts are worn - make them top quality, unfaded, and clean, with no distracting logos or jokes that make you seem less than serious. if button-up shirts are worn - make sure they are clean and pressed and high quality.

these strategies allow you to fit in... while being slightly better than the crowd. there is a reason for that. if you want to stay in your current position, then by all means maintain the status quo. but if you want to go up or out, you should give the impression of being slightly above the competition already.

similarly, my mom used to say that people should dress for the jobs they want, not for the jobs they have. of course, this should be within reason - don't dress like the CEO if you are in the mailroom. but if you want the supervisor's job next, look at how the supervisors dress. if you want the purchaser's job, pay attention to what he wears. in your style of dress you should already appear perfect for that promotion.

in my workplace (government call centre), it was easy to tell the people that were just using the job as a launching pad for something better - they dressed like they were slightly too good for the job. they didn't hold themselves aloof, but they were always a little more professional than everyone else in many ways, including the way they dressed. and sure enough, they quickly advanced to better positions... not just because of the way they dressed of course, but clothing does have a massive effect (unfair as it may seem).

To be honest, that's even harder for me to fathom than the actual levels of dress... I'd rather go up a dress level than buy expensive clothes and spend exorbitant amounts of time whilst staying at the current level. It makes infinitely more sense to me to wear a $20 polo shirt and $25 slacks than a $100 designer t-shirt and $200 jeans. I have enough crap to spend money on, like food, a cell phone (not even a smartphone, just a plain old cell that just calls and texts), and loan payments. I don't need to spend beyond my means, and I for one absolutely refuse to buy designer when there are more economical alternatives out there. (that said, I do refrain from distracting logos/slogans and the like, and I always wear clean clothes)

To me, "standing out" is something that is achieved by quality of work, especially after the time for first impressions is long past and your foot is already way in the door. To a lesser extent (but still significant), it's one's demeanor. A person who b*****s all the time would be passed over in my mind for someone who just gets the job done. At least that's how it would be done if I were in HR; the less neat (not outright slob, but just less neat) man who is quiet and efficient would be considered over the loudmouth in the designer outfit.

That said, clothes can affect demeanor as well. I for one gain a slight attitude problem the further up the "formal" ladder I go. Why? Because formality has a direct correlation to discomfort. Most formal wear chokes the life out of me in 3 places: neck, waist, and feet. Waist is slightly avoidable through loosening of the belt, although too loose means my shirt becomes untucked and in severe cases causes plumber's crack. Neck can be alleviated until I get to the shirt-and-tie level, as most button-down shirts aren't buttoned at the top without a tie on. But the feet is just impossible to deal with. I have unusually wide feet, and it's impossible to find shoes that fit without spending a fortune on them. I don't understand how people feel pride in formal wear... all I feel is pain.

You got that right! I saw that in action when the place I worked went to allowing jeans. I had in my mind someplace like Google maybe where the majority of people are achievers. That would be the only kind of place something like what I proposed would have a fraction of a chance of happening. Even then...

Of course, I would never have a business either so that post was a total lapse into fantasyland!

Fact is, the effect of clothes is just like the Jedi Mind Trick in Star Wars "These aren't the droids you are looking for"
Maybe not on everyone--Jabba the Hut was immune, but certainly enough to make a major difference.

For me, the challenge is finding clothes that fit--they just don't make clothes for well proportioned older men who happen to be short.
But, the effect is dramatic--women especially, notice when I am wearing clothes that fit really well. So, I've decided it is worth my time to
hunt for clothes--Ebay is great--I can spend hours at the mall and find nothing that fits--but a couple of clever searches and I can find
what I need on Ebay.