[United Kingdom] Manager says I need to explain my AS

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Hi,

I've been in my job for 12 months. I declared my AS on my application form. Things went quite well at first, my line manager asked me to explain the symptoms of my AS, and I realised the answer was that I don't really know, so I said I just have bog standard AS and started listing typical symptoms, but then he interrupted me to say 'yes I know all of that very well' so I figured he must know a lot, so I left it there.

Last month, I had a meltdown, where I shouted and swore at my project manager (not line manager). Without going in to specifics, I had real issues keeping track of what my project manager and line manager wanted, I don't think they communicate clearly, keep moving project goalposts, and contradict each other. Many of my colleagues expressed sympathy in the run up to the meltdown.

Later on in the day when I'd calmed down, I apologised to my project manager (it's worth noting he replied with a 'corporate' apology), and then my line manager explained that I need to take responsibility for explaining my disability and what it means. I stayed up all night reading about Asperger Syndrome, but the ideal material I found to give to my manager was on the first page of Google searches for 'Asperger Syndrome', and 'Asperger Syndrome workplace'.

My question is, do I really need to give my manager results from the first page of Google? I strongly feel this is the sort of thing he should be doing himself, and if I am supposed to explain this to him, I wish somebody had told me sooner that I had to enumerate all of the symptoms. I feel really embarrassed at work now, because after the meltdown I told everyone I had AS so they didn't think I'm a nutcase. I'm not sure if I even want to stay there because now I'm afraid it's changed my relationships with my colleagues.

I'd be grateful if somebody could let me know if my expectations are unreasonable or not.

I am of the opinion that it would foster good relations should you offer to educate your manager on Asperger's Syndrome.

Of course, you have the right not to do this.

Were you "written up" for what happened?

Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

I'm not officially in trouble, but I've been referred to Occupational Health to see a psychologist so we can work out what I need.

I'm sorry to hear you had an unpleasant experience with your managers. I suppose it might be helpful if you explained to what degree you identify with the 'symptoms' on the list of AS traits? I note that you said you didn't really know, but maybe this is a good opportunity to learn more about yourself? I've been doing a lot of reading up this year (and joining this forum) to help understand where I fit on the spectrum and it's been really helpful.

It seems likely to me that employers will find some kinds of “evidence” or “definitions” of autism if they seek it. Given what has happened in your workplace, you should expect that they will find such “evidence” or “definitions.” This can be a good thing, but it can also be a bad thing. They might simply read the Wikipedia.org article and deem themselves knowledgeable about your autistic behaviors and characteristics. Their resulting expectations could affect them and you.

So, I would suggest strongly in creating your own “Operators Manual” regarding your autistic behaviors and characteristics. A couple years ago at a local autism conference which I attended, the conference’s founder, who was also about your age, described his own “Operators Manual” which he wrote a few years prior for his employers and coworkers. It was a few pages in length and intended to be somewhat light-hearted, but can be as detailed as needed. Its sections led off with a clinical definition or description of a common behavior or characteristic that his autism included. After that, he added his own simple, honest, explanations about how he exhibits the behavior or characteristic, and how it can be provoked, made worse and made better.

I presume that you were diagnosed with Asperger syndrome under the ICD-10 diagnostic criteria ( http://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/ ... F84-/F84.5 ). In my opinion, some very good exemplars to use in writing your own “Operators Manual” can be found within a University of Washington publication titled “DSM 5 Autism Spectrum Disorder Guidelines & Criteria Exemplars” ( https://tinyurl.com/kn4vcxx ). I recognize that you weren’t diagnosed under the DSM-5 criteria, but the exemplars should give you some good ideas in how to describe your behaviors and characteristics.

It is, of course, your choice in how your respond to your employers and coworkers about this matter. If you choose to add your ideas and opinions to their considerations of your workplace disability, creating your “Operators Manual” would, at least, give you a chance to describe your own autistic benefits and deficits in your own words.

Whatever you choose to do, good luck!

Hi,

Thanks for the replies. An 'Operators Manual' sounds like a good idea, however I think I'll have to do some serious reflection before I can write anything about myself. I've been diagnosed since I was 7 years old but I guess I've always been ashamed and tried to get through life without acknowledging it. I feel as if there's something 'wrong' with behaving like an Aspie, so I feel wrong about myself a lot. Maybe this will help.

Having thought about it a little more, I was unreasonable to expect my manager to do any research on AS by himself. During my internship, my manager spent some time researching AS on his own, but that was a choice he made, not an obligation.

To be honest I think my workplace is not a good fit for me anyway. I'll work on the Operator's Manual but I'm also going to start looking for other work.

Wise move! Protect yourself no matter what develops.

Unfortunately, I resonate with this quite strongly as I too have suffered abuse when going for training courses and there have been many I have done and never spoke about my crisis as it were, praying I wouldn't await the meltdown I might succumb to , and I've always held my head up high , kept calm and carried on, if I shed a tear, I do it away from people. I carry an enormous amount of frustration around with me, and try to take on views from someone else when I can see enough to explain the action myself.
All this sounds like an incoherent manager bullying his prospect (you) around to his project manager to take some of the pressure off of himself. Quite possibly being the coward employer that favours the rest of his staff but doesn't want to express a need for empathy, or can't.
If this is retail or the case of manual experienced roles, I would ask for a reference and look elsewhere, and mention you left based on the grounds of discrimination.

When I applied for loads of jobs before an adult diagnosis was met, I was under surveillance trials for some rubbish double glazing firm which tagged me along into all the P.R to begin with, then shadow sales under executive for my team leader who had excellent sales and marketing skills. He dated me only after we all got sacked because the firm went under and it was like a scene from Gladiator. The last man standing issued the last words to me, that I should go my way and them theirs. The company was already in debt, I didn't know that to start with but my project manager already did, and acknowledged that I would need a C.V. It's not as if I had put in 60 hours a week so I graciously forgot all about it.

I only match myself to jobs I feel suited to now, and seeing as all agencies have long been a bias source of contempt for anyone registering I've decided to stick to training courses that offer a better deal.
For anyone else thinking of going along with job centre guidance, think ahead of the game as they never do.

If you worked in a factory type setting you might get away with flipping out at your project manager, but in an office environment you're probably already being managed out. From your age, I'm assuming you're in a junior position (could be wrong) in which case you're pretty disposable and they'll want to keep the more senior person happy.
Looking for another position while they go about it is your best option as you'll be under a lot of scrutiny. Hope it works out for you.

I'm afraid you're right... my manager said I can move to another department if I like. I don't want to though; I want to be an engineer, and this is the engineering department.

I feel so horrible about all of this. I think the project manager is genuinely awful... all the 'shop floor' staff across the sites I work at have nothing nice to say about him, and his mixed, contradictory instructions and compensating for his lack of planning and communication really were filling up all of my time... I keep my temper even for 11 months and then let go just once...

My fear is that moving forward from here, I'll be defined by my disability. Having an operators manual sounds very useful, but at the same time... why do I have to do that? Why can't managers just manage - it's what they're paid to do. It feels like I need to wear a Yellow Badge like Jewish people in Nazi ghettos. I've already had conversations with my manager where he dismissed my concerns and anxiety until I gently reminded him I'm disabled.

I feel so worried about this that I've joined a union. I even feel ashamed about that - it's a 'working class' thing and I feel as if I must have failed if I'm still 'working class' after four years of university. Not that there's anything wrong with being working class, I just wanted a 'middle class' job... cos I reckon they pay more.

It might be worth asking your psychologist to help you write a form of 'Operators' Manual', if not for your current job then for use in the future. It should definitely include the way AS affects you personally, how it presents in your specific case, to make the point that people on the spectrum are all as unique as everyone else, and not defined by their condition. The process of doing this will probably help you too. You don't have to show it to your future employers, but it would be good to have it anyway.

In the UK at least, there's now far more awareness of autism, although the public's detailed knowledge of it is pretty poor. Stereotypes are still common. Some employers are better than others; some actively recruit people with AS because of their particular skills. The public sector tends to be more accommodating, but the private sector is improving, particularly in larger cities. Nonetheless, all employers are bound by the same anti-discrimination laws. The National Autistic Society has information on those employers who are most 'autistic friendly', and has schemes to help companies and organisations in general to develop a more inclusive culture.

Your expectations are not unreasonable at all. While you have every right not to disclose your condition, it's becoming increasingly common for people on the spectrum to do so - as you did. So the more you can help educate your managers and co-workers, the better it is for everyone with autism - in fact for neurodivergent people generally.

You're right. If I want to do a good job then I need to reflect on what I am, and am not. I just feel disappointed that I'm impeded in some way that other people aren't. Growing up, I thought I could compensate by studying hard, but now I'm in the workforce I feel as if I'm back to square one.

I don't have a psychologist and I don't think I ever have. I have an appointment with a clinical psychologist with OHS at work tomorrow but I don't yet know what we're going to discuss, maybe they are supposed to become 'my psychologist'?

Don't feel bad about joining a union, its pretty smart. Hopefully you wont need them. This is presumably your first position and you've learnt some office boundaries. Take it as a positive and move on. If you're a good engineer you'll get another role and handle stuff better.

You'll notice your colleagues distancing themselves from you, that's because in conflict everyone chooses a side and most side with the winner. They won't want to be punished by association, even if they agree with you and your project manager is the scum of the earth. Your project manager gave a corporate apology not because he thought you were right, but because he knows the game. You'd have been better off if he'd sworn back or punched you, but he knew you were done. You never get to blow up in an office situation, shouting and swearing get you an exit interview unless you're indispensable. It means they cant trust you to be in control of your emotions and tbh they don't care what you're diagnosed with, businesses are there to make money not provide employment opportunities.

My advice on the manual, don't! Do not put anything in writing or share anything with HR that makes you a less desirable employee. Journal and self-analyse as much as you like, but do not bring a wish list of conditions to your employment as employment is about being better than next guy at doing the job. If you have a set of conditions that need meeting and they're not ticking some diversity box that week you have given them a reason to choose the other guy.
Sorry to be blunt but I'm reading you want real advice not a cuddle. I've been a software engineer for over 10 years and know the industry a bit. There is no give when there are deadlines and very few second chances. Keep you head down while looking for another position as you will need a reference from your current employer.

Genuinely wish you well.

As time goes by, what you 'are' and 'are not' will probably change a fair amount, and with each new situation you'll discover new possibilities (as well as a few impossibilities). We all face obstacles, some of them insurmountable. Where this is the case, the trick is often not to try and overcome them but to circumnavigate or bypass them - they're still there, but less of an issue. More in the background.

I wouldn't say that you're back at square one. You're in a new environment, and that can be difficult, even frightening, so it can appear as if everything you've done before was pointless because it doesn't seem to be immediately relevant. The habit of working hard is invaluable, and pays off eventually. As you might have noticed, a lot of people in the workforce are lazy, and get by by bluffing. But all that does is produce shoddy goods and services; in a discreet way, you need to rise above that sort of behaviour.

Why not jot down some questions to ask the psychologist? Like, what sort of support can they offer you? They will also want to know what you want to achieve in the sessions. If you're not too sure what you want, say so. They will probably make suggestions. Maybe they can refer you to another psychotherapist if they think it will be useful. Even with the woeful state of mental health provision in the UK, support is available if you push for it.

I had a phone call with a Clinical Psychologist from Occupational Health (OHS) today. The first thing she explained was that nobody there had experience with AS, but she would be researching it over the next few weeks. I told her about the 'Operators Manual' and she said she didn't know anything about that so she doesn't know if she can help.

I explained my situation, and provided examples of when things have gone wrong; she said it sounds as if I have normal workplace stress, and that although my AS may have caused the meltdown, a lot of other people would feel the same stress under the same circumstances.

I told her I'd been trying to relieve stress by cycling to work, learning to play the saxophone, and meditating. She said it sounds like I tried to deal with the stress quite well. She said I could do with some cognitive behaviour therapy (CBT). I also explained I've had a lot of suicidal thoughts and been self harming to help me sleep at night (I didn't mention that before but I guess I should), and she said the suicidal thoughts are normal for anybody under a lot of stress, but she didn't remark on the self harming over the phone, and I didn't want to mention it again because it was embarrassing.

I applied for another job today, developing software/firmware for electric machine controllers, but I feel so frightened about it. Fresh uni and with my internships under my belt, I felt so confident I could tackle technical challenges, and I was ready to learn, but now I just feel tired. I don't know if I'll be happy in another job - what if I'm no good at anything? I signed up to the Eudyptula Challenge to build my confidence back up.

In addition to that, one of my colleagues has started insisting I tell him when I'm going to use the toilet. My manager's on holiday and yesterday he decided that 20 mins (don't ask ) was too long to be away, so he phoned round the departments asking if they knew where I was, and then when I came back he gave me a lecture about wasting company time. What kind of a work-life do I have, in a first world country, if I can't even use the toilet in peace? I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

The psychologist was right to say that a lot of other people experience workplace stress, but she's rather missing the point, because they don't have AS, which has its own set of triggers that are unique to each person with the condition. It's good that she's going to do some research, but if her knowledge of AS is that thin I wonder what she'll come up with? Hopefully not just stereotypes. Depending on how it goes, I'd be inclined to tell her that you need to talk to a psychologist with experience dealing with autism.

You seem to be very proactive in finding ways to manage your stress levels, which shows your self-awareness is quite high. But wondering if you're 'no good at anything' shows that your self esteem is suffering. Feeling tired could be a symptom of depression (which I've had for most of my adult life), as are suicidal thoughts. I'm not sure it's helpful for her to describe them as 'normal' - they're certainly common, but 'normal' tends to trivialise them. CBT might help. That's something to work on with a psychologist.

Applying for a new job is very positive. You're 'taking back control' as Vote Leave were always saying (!) Your colleague is the one wasting company time by obsessing about how long you spend in the toilet. He sounds like a bully with his eye on promotion. Maybe it's time for you to move on.

If you'd like to chat more, just send me a pm.