Well, this is awkward.. working for a con artist it seems.

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Friend form the beach offered me work with his parents biz. I accepted. Did some work, got paid. He moved on to another project elsewhere for the company and someone else more experienced got hired to take over.

I went back, talked to the new guy in charge, he appreciated info I told him about the job. I joined his crew to work.

I’ve been logging hours, paid for some materials out of pocket. Used to getting paid at the End of jobs, not invoicing frequently. It’s been a couple months.

This contractor is honest. Called me to tell me things are shaky with finances and he doesn’t trust the owner of the biz, my friends mom, as things are.. amiss.

The client is very, very, Good in every way. Smart, hard working at two jobs + family etc. Her and I have a good working relationship. She Really appreciates my work, honesty/ethics in billing etc definitely trust there both ways so we’ve been discussing the situation behind the scenes.

Owner of the contracting biz, my friends mom, is not being transparent at all about invoices/expenses/cash/payments etc and is giving the client the run around. She’s claimed she’s paid bills she hasn’t (mine) and bought materials there’s no proof she’s bought (photo/invoice ?) etc. Inflated prices on some things like a $9k bill for what should be $3200 at MOST. Etc.

Several other major red flags we’ve identified in hindsight.

My friend, I know socially not business wise, he’s a Good guy, well liked. But it seems his mothers contracting business operates on embezzling funds & stiffing subcontracted labour. It seems.

As far as we can calculate, about $80-90K is unaccounted for. That’s a large % of $149K.

Hoping I get paid the $5k or so I’m owed. My friend says Wednesday 1/2 of it and the rest the following week. Time will tell. The only thing that might get me paid is him putting the gears to his mom and ensuring I’m paid to protect his social reputation at the beach.

But the other $80k+? I told the client to instruct the contractor to show her all documentation (she’s been asking for over a week) or her next call either goes to a lawyer or her “powerful friends,” to assist with. Maybe with some pressure the funds will reappear. Or maybe they’ll end up in court. Either way, $0 more to her.. client can deal directly with the contractors on site and cut that con artist out of the loop and see her in court.

Crazy. Never been involved in such a situation with such dishonest people full on scamming someone out of $80-90k. Heard about way bigger scams by people I’ve met, but never been in the middle of a situation like this one!


And now I’m in an awkward position where I have knowledge my friend and his mom don’t know I have. He’s offered me other work.. now I have to either somehow say cash up front/run up very small tabs only, or decline the work because I’m “busy.” (Looking for someone ethical to work with that isn’t ripping people off.)

My friend is a bit older than I am and due to this insane real estate market lives with his parents, so it’s unlikely that he doesn’t know how the family business operates..

What would be the best outcome for you?

What can you do to protect your time? That is, could you slow down working so that you do not end up working for no pay?

How important is the friendship for you?
What are your options, in terms of other work?

Get paid in full. Complete the rest of the project for the client and get paid in full for that as well whether from the company or directly from the client. The client likes my work and ways of conducting business - which is extremely important in her culture. She also has other work she can refer to me later and wants to via one of her jobs and contacts - this is all legitimate. We know we will preserve a working relationship with each other for sure. I trust her; I would finish my role on her house on a verbal promise that she will pay me later and she would be good for it.

To protect my time? I can do whatever I want with it lol. I haven’t worked for a couple weeks due to minor injury and not being paid yet. I have less than a week window and then I have other obligations for 2 or so weeks every day in a row, so I might not be able to work on their site for a few weeks and if so they may wait for me and do other work on the project/take a week off. If they find someone else available to do what I do they will either be not nearly as good as I am or charge 3x my price, so I bet they wait. Plus the owner likes my work and will want the other half of her renovation to look as good as the first phase. Drywall finishing is an art & goldfishy is an artiste. :p

I can simply just not return to work there until after I am paid. I did say in my text to my friend let’s square up on this phase before starting the next and his response was in agreement. So, he should expect that I won’t return to work until I’m paid. Others on site have advised me to do that as well. I Could return and do other general work that needs doing if they’re not ready for my trade just yet and log the hours to be paid later by someone, or not - I don’t like slipping backwards much financially But I do not need the money to pay bills immediately. I have money as well as significant sums of money owed to me by others for other work - not buy a house here money, but buy a brand new vehicle or two for cash kind of money. So it won’t put me behind on rent or groceries if I don’t work for a few weeks and just do a couple small jobs or whatever.

Friendship is a bit important, which is why I’ve maintained a neutral professional exchange of texts and phone calls with him vs any sort of emotion or indication that I know things aren’t what they seem financially etc even though he must figure I know something is up. I guess we’re both doing the same and playing dumb for appearances sake. He’s not like my best friend or anything, but we both hangout with the same circle of friends and while I’ve been around the beach 7 years I’m only a year or so hanging with this crew and he’s def way longer. These are all good people on various ways and positive influences for health, fitness, mindset, business etc so I wouldn’t want to make serious waves and then avoid him/them even though he’s not the “leader,” he’s super tight with that crew. We all see each other near daily in the summer whenever we’re not obligated to work or do other things so I don’t want to have conflict. It’s for those reasons that I have faith that he will put the screws to his mom and tell her to pay me in full so that I don’t ruin his social reputation, IMO. Otherwise I’m near 100% sure she simply wouldn’t pay me and would carry on taking advantage of the next guy as apparently is her MO.

I have multiple job offer/options and am taking a course to get into film set construction because in the long run, for punching a clock, the pay and perks are better than commercial or residential construction, and better than a lot of contractors can manage to do on their own without the hassle of having to do sales/invoicing/accounting etc and dealing with people who don’t pay like this. Much simpler to just show up to work and be paid well and provided catered meals lol. But if I want/need work and don’t have a contract, I can work commercial union again in a heartbeat - my Dad’s the president. I stopped at the beginning of Covid and haven’t gone back but the option is always open. And a friend with a mining industry business wants me to do sales work for him. And the carpenter on site wants me to be available to work with him on other projects. Etc. The only times I don’t work for a stretch is when I don’t really feel like it - I always have multiple options and sometimes get calls from past contractors to see if I’m available etc. Just that I’ve been shifting gears to taking on my own contracts instead of subcontracting so I make the $ for the value of my trade instead of any boss skimming a cut. Plus if there was no other work I could probably put my van to work moving stuff for money if I wanted. Not worried about work/money, just don’t like getting ripped off.

I'd bet good money the circumstances are a fit for narcissism in the mother, traits or clinical.

It's not our business to diagnose, of course.

You should, however, educate yourself a bit, protecting your prerogatives requires nothing less.

Narcissism is quite prevalent and EXTREMELY damaging, with a huge blast radius.

OP, pease check this topic out a bit to ensure you can protect yourself if needed.

Sam Vaknin on YouTube is a good source (academic). Richard Grannon's material is practical and good too, just make sure you assess/judge the suitability of his stuff.

She may be narcissistic, I dunno. I’ve met her for a grand total of 5-10 minutes. She makes a good impression, seems knowledgeable, professional, competent and confident etc - par for the course for being a businesswoman of Scottish descent.

Not really sure why I’d need to go watch YouTube vids about narcissism, though.

Bottom line is I haven’t been paid yet, she’s told the client she paid my bill out of funds budgeted, I have been told I’ll be paid partially on Wednesday and the remainder the next week as relayed by her son who I have a friendship with. But from some things the client divulged, it seems she was attempting not to pay me at all nor her friend, the main contractor/carpenter. But the 3 of us are talking behind the scenes and want to ensure everyone gets paid.

Guess I won’t go back to work there for at least another 1.5 weeks, and then I’ll be right into other commitments for my coursework practicum construction work for a different industry, sooo, them not being ready for my next phase + delaying payment is going to put them behind even further when they then have to wait for me to be available again. Client says she wants to wait for Me vs hire someone else so we’ll see. I’m indifferent as if I get paid up to date I don’t mind finding other work to get paid for if it’s gonna be a nightmare dealing with these ppl. Rather have another couple weeks off seeking work than work and not get paid.

Seems like Lawyer Time to me.

That’s what I advised the client to do. Tell the contractor woman, either deliver all of the documentation that I need for my own knowledge as well as for a 3rd party lender as their requirements for a loan to complete the project (lender wants to see money hasn’t been mismanaged so far before they will lend it to complete & wants to ensure it’s adding value to the property etc in case they ever had to lien it.) asap or my next call goes to my lawyer because I’m not going to waste my time asking you again.

Told her to just get tough with her and see how she reacts. If she’s going to go off in a huff and refuse to communicate/pretend like she fired her client for not paying bills or whatever, then at least you force the scenario into
It’s eventual end and get on with it and see her in court.

Odd feeling advising someone to get legal on my friend’s mom.. but I owe no loyalty to their contracting business and it’s plain as day that she’s a fraud and these extremely kind clients have been taken for a ride to the tune of $80-90k. Sooo, if this heads to court it’s well deserved.

Obvi I hope I get paid. But clearly the money has been spent elsewhere if there aren’t funds to pay me in full now and it has to be split over a couple pmts a couple weeks after I invoice. Shaaady.

I've been on the phone again with the client for quite some time now. She's being bs'd and gaslighted by the contractor further.. even threatening to lien the house. (Liens are toothless without a lawsuit filed within 1 year and there's Zero proof she hasn't paid a contractor's bills so even IF they filed a lawsuit there's no proof of $ owed.. the threat of a lien is exactly that - an empty threat that the con artist believes is effective.)

Her lawyer did a bit of a check into things and the contractor, company, etc have no assets and live in a rented house. Their entire financial life is structured around not being worth suing.

I'm supposed to get partial payment tomorrow and the rest owing next week. We'll see if that happens.

They've sent the client a bunch of bogus accounting with inflated hours, hourly rates, etc. As well as padding other bills by more than 50%. Total bogus BS fraud 100%.

Apparently the 3rd party lending companies know the contractor by reputation as well - seems they run way over peoples' budgets and force them into taking loans to complete renovations.. and we're not talking about people running a typical 20-30% over budget, more like 2-3x+ just stringing people along squeezing them for more and more money until they eventually exhaust any further payments coming their way. MAYBE they complete renovations in the process, maybe not.

Just wrapped up about a 2 hour convo with the client - and at the end I had an idea that might just help resolve the majority of her issues - how to beat the con at her own game. Client is in the real estate industry in one of her jobs, knows lenders and appraisers etc.. I told her to string her along right back.. continue requesting the required documentation for 3rd party lending that hasn't been provided, tell the con artist she's gotten an appraisal and advice through them and they want to loan her far more money for a much more extensive phase 2 renovation than is planned in order to optimize the equity they can add to the property.. string her along over the coming weeks and months telling her financing is being arranged - and during that time have the con artist pay the invoices that haven't been paid (as money has been stolen) - if she believes that there's a big payday coming in the form of a large loan being forwarded to her to "manage the rest of the renovation," then Maybe she'll pay various bills and deliver materials she claims have been purchased (no proof of it) etc etc along the way, believing that she's investing in a big score pay off when the loan comes through. But in reality the game is about to be flipped and played on her. If it works to get her to pay debts owing, then once they're paid obviously the loan isn't going to come through and there isn't going to be $$$$$$ sent to the company for further renovations. Oh noes, what happened?!? No idea, lender has declined the loan after all this and we'll have to seek funds elsewhere and maybe scale things down less than the original plans.. lolol I think this scheme, once thought through and developed, might just be the very best possibility of this client recovering some funds. Suing in court would win a judgement, but the fraudsters have no assets on paper so getting paid is next to impossible. Scamming them right back is the way, IMO, and I'm all for it and will assist in any way that I can - even if just with ideas.

lol fast forward a handful of months and I might hear from my friend that the client we worked for didn't pay her bill or some bs.. promised additional work to the company and then didn't follow through blah blah blah. Maybe. Still not sure if he's in on the true family business of fraud or if he's in the dark about how his mother operates. HOPING I get paid and then maybe he and I never ever discuss it. Something like that, as if I say anything in our social circle it will certainly make waves neither of us want.

Delays delays lies deceit cons bs etc

I haven’t been paid yet. Meanwhile the contractor told the client she already paid me from funds she was to manage. Client called her on her lie said I haven’t been paid, contractor got all mad at her for talking to her subtrades and telling her how to do business etc etc as if the client is dumb as a rock (fact: she’s sharp as a tack) gave her some bs about being on different accounting cycles LOL no 30/60/90 day terms account for any of her BS.

Still not sure if my friend, her son, is in on the scam Or if she’s lying to him and he believes his mother. We Think she’s lying to him as we know him, not her, and he’s not the type to rip off his friends and impolite his social circle. His mom basically told him the client hasn’t paid (enough) yet and they’re awaiting a construction loan to come through before I can get paid.. which is half truth and total BS - there was enough money forwarded by the client to more than complete the project.

In the end if she’s snowing her son I hope the client blows up her lies to the son.

And then in the long run the contracting business and owners are gonna get what they deserve from the tax man I think.

Would it be wrong to meet with ALL the subs and share information, or are you all under and NDA?

Client just emailed the CONtractor, myself and 2 others owed money. Had a little update about private lending, planted a seed about $ being approved for phase 2 and a much more expensive phase 3 laneway house build (lol) and laid out some ground rules for getting paid (basic stuff lenders would require of invoices) as well as other requirements the Con is supposed to meet + mention that the Con is to pay us up to date and to fwd invoices to her and if we have any questions about payment, or the remaining budget, just ask either the Con or the client as they welcome cross checking transparency lol

The Con is gonna see dollar signs if there’s a bigger phase 3 loan approved, o hopefully pays the phase 1 bills hoping to scam the phase 2 & 3 money.. but she’s also gonna see that she’s been called out to show her cards, pay bills, deliver materials she claims were purchased - and that we’ve all been invited to ask her about payments/budget directly.

Fun times!

Still not sure if my friend from the beach is in on the scam with his mom or is being lied to by her and believes her lies.

Communications don’t indicate one way or the other yet for sure.

Still haven’t been paid but pressure is being dialled up all around. Hoping
I get paid from money the client already sent vs the contractors bailing and leaving her high and dry to pay overdue bills and for the rest of the project - as then she’s paying double for much of it as $70-80k will have been stolen and not recovered at all.

I think the $ is long gone But the scammer Might rob money from a tiger job to pay bills on this one in hopes of scamming even more money later.


When this is all over, it’s going to be an awkward conversation with my friend to confront him and find out if he’s in on the scam or believes his mom’s lies. He may never tell me the truth if he’s in on it, or he may not believe me/others over his mom’s word if he’s not in on it.. but I don’t see a scenario where we Never have a conversation about it at all. Unless he shuts it down, I say nothing except if your family business wants me to work for them I’ll give you a price for a job and you pay me up front in full and I’ll do the work as agreed. No credit terms ever as I’m not dealing with trying to collect money. I’m sure he’ll blame the client not paying blah blah I don’t care - company needs to pay me up front or call someone else; I don’t work for free.

CONtractor phoned me this early eve. Blah blah blah lies, blames being busy with 2 major projects at the same time and not keeping on top of invoicing clients to make sure money comes in to pay sub trades.. blah blah lies excuses bs & nonsense. Stuff I KNOW is bs but can't call her on.

She seemed a bit frazzled and frantic in her tone talking to me, too.

Anyways, she offered to send me some $ now via entransfer so I accepted the offer and she did send me approx 25% of my total bill - which is at least more than my material cost so at least I'm out time and not money right now until I get the rest for my labour.

I talked with the client this eve, told her the deets of my chat with the contractor. Contractor probably expects that I'll return to that jobsite tmw to work.. umm, no, my agreement was to square up on phase 1 before doing work on the next phase, soooo, I'll need the remaining 75% k thx. I'll get that text/call(s) in the morning I bet. Whatever, I'll deal with it then.. I never did say I'd accept 25% now and then go back to the site. I said I'd accept the 25% now and agreed we'd keep in touch throughout the rest of the week about the remainder.

Thing is I Know from the client they've already forwarded funds, so, will hold out and wait and see if she comes up with the $.

Electrician got about 12-15% of what he's owed and then he went back to work there. Mistake. Get paid in full, bud. She's stringing too many people along with minimum payments then she'll screw them in the end and not pay the rest guaranteed.

Client told me the contractor brought some tiles to deliver for the bathroom and she liked them and that there was some concrete evidence of materials being purchased. (other materials "purchased," are mostly just BS line items on an invoice) I told the client flat out she's doing the same thing to her - bring her maybe a grand or so worth of tiles, at most, and she's happy to see Some sort of progress.. meanwhile there's like 70 grand unaccounted for. Don't let her string you along and appease you with a grand worth of tiles, totally distracting you from the missing 70 grand. Keep the pressure turned up!

Now I KNOW why it’s better to work for a steady salary! And be a member of a union. Maybe I would make less—but at least everything is above-board and regulated.

I wouldn’t have the wherewithal to deal with this sort of crap. I’m lucky I got a steady civil service job pretty much out of high school.

Sounds like a whole lot of hassle to me. That is necessary because you took a risk.

I’m not brave like that, and fortunate I don’t have to be.

I equate this sort of situation with Trump’s morals, and reality programming. Maybe I’m not “smart” from the social Darwinist standpoint. Yet I do have a retirement pension, and don’t need diamonds and other riches.

It's a part of being a contractor - sometimes people don't pay, or pay late. I have a friend that owes me $1800 for work done. Another contractor owes me $1200 for similar work - he pays, but often late. But this is the first time I've been involved with a contractor that I realize is an outright con artist attempting not to pay anyone while stealing large sums from the client.

The risk & hassle is part of what you accept when doing this sort of work. Besides working gig to gig and not having stable long term employment, that's part of why contractors typically charge a fair bit more than they'd get paid hourly working for someone else - to account for the risk of not getting paid sometimes. Also doesn't hurt any to be a strong forceful personality type, which I'm not really when it comes to collecting my Own money but I am when I'm collecting on behalf of a friend or employer (maybe weird, I know), but I'm not stupid.. I'm not about to go back to work on this site until I'm paid up to date as agreed. I think the contractor thinks I've already returned to work there yesterday or this morning, meanwhile.. nope - waiting for my money. I'll go do a small patch job or two on some walls this week, or not work and not make any money, before I go work more there for free/risk of running up an even larger bill she doesn't pay.

The other factor that makes it not very stressful for me at all to just sit back and wait and not panic about the $ is that I have significant savings in the bank and a Lot more money owed to me than listed above, so I'm not concerned one bit about being able to make rent or pay for groceries etc, which enables me to take some risks in terms of doing contracting work and potentially making more money in less time than punching a clock even if once in a while I don't get paid or get paid late. Most worker bees and even small contractors don't have big cash cushions to weather storms like this, but, I do.. so I can take some risks and cash in on some lucrative contracts vs. Have To go punch a clock every morning rn. (But I'll be punching a clock if I shift into film set construction for sure. Then if a show/movie wraps up and I don't have another one, I go back to contracting/sub contracting etc. I know a few guys that do this - punch a clock working in film, then go back to trades working for themselves or subbing for a few different guys whoever has work.)

I know what you mean. But I wouldn’t have made it under those conditions. Maybe because I’m lazy?

I knew this, so I chose the more secure, less lucrative route.

It’s always good to know your strengths and weaknesses.

And if somebody doesn’t respect me for that, it’s tough nuggies on them

This is something that some autistic people should keep in mind. There are some who wouldn’t make it under social-Darwinist conditions. I’m probably one of them.

Many here choose jobs which are unsuited to them—so they struggle.

I get why you choose to do what you do.

Last edited by kraftiekortie on 01 Feb 2023, 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.