Need informative material for parents on AS employment

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raisedbyignorance
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29 Apr 2009, 7:13 pm

So my parents are very ignorant people regarding my AS. I had the misfortune of not being diagnosed with AS until I was an adult so there are very few services out there for me.

My parents are constantly badgering me to find a job and they still insist that it's as simple as walking into a store and filling out an application. I need a way to inform my parents that I can't just walk myself into a store, fill out an application, do an interview and get a job...especially since retail/hourly wage jobs are a horrible position for aspies due to the social communication it demands with customers, etc.

Can anyone recommend me a book or an article so I can get my parents to understand that I can't approach job hunting like normal people due to my AS and my poor emotional/social state of mind, that I may need some special assistance in finding employment?

I'm in Indiana where employment is horrid. I'm sick of fighting all the poor normal people out there for a regular job and losing (despite having a college degree) over my poor ability to do well at a job interview.



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29 Apr 2009, 10:02 pm

If you could just find a way around having to "sell yourself" at the job interview. Instead of smashing your head against the wall just walking into a bunch of stores and filling out applications, mabye you know some people who can get you on somewhere and you can bypass the typical interview process? God knows that it is a tough road to find work, especially with AS handicapping your social skills. Perhaps Disability is an option?



Learning2Survive
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29 Apr 2009, 10:21 pm

raisedbyignorance wrote:
So my parents are very ignorant people regarding my AS. I had the misfortune of not being diagnosed with AS until I was an adult so there are very few services out there for me.

My parents are constantly badgering me to find a job and they still insist that it's as simple as walking into a store and filling out an application. I need a way to inform my parents that I can't just walk myself into a store, fill out an application, do an interview and get a job...especially since retail/hourly wage jobs are a horrible position for aspies due to the social communication it demands with customers, etc.

Can anyone recommend me a book or an article so I can get my parents to understand that I can't approach job hunting like normal people due to my AS and my poor emotional/social state of mind, that I may need some special assistance in finding employment?

I'm in Indiana where employment is horrid. I'm sick of fighting all the poor normal people out there for a regular job and losing (despite having a college degree) over my poor ability to do well at a job interview.


Oh, sister, sorry to hear about that. Why do you think that you cannot find a job, just keep trying. It might turn out differently than you expect. With jobs, though, you do want to try and get something just to survive. Do your best, put your effort in. Convincing your parents that you can't find a job is irrelevant to the issue at hand which is employment for survival and personal growth.

How bad is your AS? Could you get in touch with any aspie groups in Indiana? I bet they might help folks like you and others on WP who are in a similar situation.

Good luck.

Jeff


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raisedbyignorance
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29 Apr 2009, 10:52 pm

Learning2Survive wrote:

How bad is your AS? Could you get in touch with any aspie groups in Indiana? I bet they might help folks like you and others on WP who are in a similar situation.

Good luck.

Jeff


That's an issue I'm addressing in another area. Aside from the fact that mpst aspie/autism groups I find only cater to families of children under 18 with the condition, I would have a hard time convincing my parents to let me be involved if there were any groups for adults.

They would spat the standard B.S. about how there's nothing wrong with me and I'm just not trying and blah blah blah. An actual diagnosis means nothing to them.



Katie_WPG
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29 Apr 2009, 11:51 pm

raisedbyignorance wrote:
Learning2Survive wrote:

How bad is your AS? Could you get in touch with any aspie groups in Indiana? I bet they might help folks like you and others on WP who are in a similar situation.

Good luck.

Jeff


That's an issue I'm addressing in another area. Aside from the fact that mpst aspie/autism groups I find only cater to families of children under 18 with the condition, I would have a hard time convincing my parents to let me be involved if there were any groups for adults.

They would spat the standard B.S. about how there's nothing wrong with me and I'm just not trying and blah blah blah. An actual diagnosis means nothing to them.


Well, you don't actually need their permission to go to an adult AS group. You could always go, and tell them you're doing something else.

Meeting people with AS in real life can give you a bit more perspective as to where you "fit in". Are you going to go there, and feel that a couple of people are a little more "advanced" in life skills than you are...or are you going to be staring around the room, looking for someone that's willing to speak to you? Aspie groups are really mixed bags.

If you go there and find that the people there are a bit below your social level, you might develop a different attitude towards working and living independantly. If your AS seems mild in comparison to the other people you know, finding work doesn't seem like such a daunting task anymore.



Learning2Survive
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30 Apr 2009, 8:35 am

your parents are in denial. so how bad is your asperger's? are you sure you can't work? if you tried, you might surprised.. the job search process means you have to eat a lot of crap, but if manage to find some job, it might be a good experience.


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raisedbyignorance
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01 May 2009, 4:17 pm

I've done about a whole year's worth of all of apply and interview crap. The only two jobs I managed to get in the course of time were temp jobs that were only discovered by my dad who got even worse paying jobs from the same companies than I did. I got fired from both. But they were both pretty terrible jobs for someone in my condition and I barely qualified for both. Both employers had serious doubts about hiring me to begin with so getting fired months later was inevitable.

I know that a lot of aspies out there had taken the effort and suceeded in doing jobs that would kill us after a week like retail. I havent exactly suceeded at getting a job in an area like this cause my interviews are terrible. Aside from the fact that my recent firings are likely to hurt any potential at a regular hourly wage job, selling myself is much more difficult. I grew up with a serious bout of depression and self-doubt all my life and never gained any confidence in anything. Plus as an aspie, I don't think about my accomplishments or doing above and beyond. I already overwork myself just to hear what other people say and make sure I do it and I still screw up 90% of the time.

I REALLY dont want to keep doing this whole apply apply apply thing. It's not because I don't want a job. It's because I know I'm not fit for that kind of job. My social anxiety levels are extremely high. If I'm around a crowd of people or if others talk to me I can easily snap or go crazy. This wont get through to my parents. They think it's all a bunch of crap and I just dont try hard enough to make eye contact. I really do have seriously problems but I have a mom who doesnt believe me and a dad who thinks therapists are a waste of money. I was already treated for depression after my AS diagnosis but the treatment went to crap. So I dunno if I can convince my parents to let me seek help again.

Sorry about teh rant.



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01 May 2009, 6:53 pm

we have unrealistic expectation. WORK VERY HARD FOR VERY LITTLE MONEY, NO BENEFITS, COMPLAINING CUSTOMERS, AND ABUSIVE BOSS. that's the reality folks. and expect to have your hours cut or be laid off at any day. so, nothing wrong with applying and getting rejecting. nothing wrong with being fired. keep doing it and your job skills will improve. do your best. right now you are not doing your best Raised. if your best is getting fired on day 1 or not getting a call back after interview at all, than fine. at least you learned some job hunting skills. but keep trying don't give up.


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01 May 2009, 8:10 pm

If you need a job and you're unskilled, look into working at night. I work evenings in a supermarket and the customers stop coming at about 8pm

Also you can do job applications on the internet, saves having to walk up to the counter, that was very hard



ignisfatuus
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07 May 2009, 4:20 am

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nly 12% of those with high-functioning autism or Asperger syndrome [have] full-time jobs


http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?a=4508&d=475

That's from the UK, but I doubt it's much different in any other Western country. The sad fact of the matter is that we get the fucken shaft because we are openly discriminated against. Our social deficit should be treated like stairs are to those in wheelchairs; they get ramps and elevators and we should get social support and understanding.


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07 May 2009, 12:59 pm

ignisfatuus wrote:
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nly 12% of those with high-functioning autism or Asperger syndrome [have] full-time jobs


http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?a=4508&d=475

That's from the UK, but I doubt it's much different in any other Western country. The sad fact of the matter is that we get the f**** shaft because we are openly discriminated against. Our social deficit should be treated like stairs are to those in wheelchairs; they get ramps and elevators and we should get social support and understanding.


Well, you also have to consider that the majority of those adults with diagnosed AS/HFA are still on the young side. Many of them attend University/College, or are finishing up high school. So their capacity to have a full-time job is limited.

The ones that are over 25 and diagnosed tend to be on the severe end of AS. The majority of AS people over 25 who have full-time jobs and live independantly are undiagnosable by DSM and IDO standards.

That's the whole catch. In order to be diagnosed in the first place, you have to have "severe impairments". It doesn't matter whether or not you were a textbook case when you were 7, if you're not "severely impaired" at age 25, you don't get a diagnosis. Or they'll just tell you that you're "sub-clinical" or have "residual AS".

So of course the employment figures are going to be dismal. If poor employment history is practically a pre-requisite for being diagnosed, then low employment figures are inevitable.



ignisfatuus
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07 May 2009, 9:07 pm

I'm not sure what the age sample was for those stats, but I think you're wrong in the assumption they were sampling primarily from a population under 22.

As for the rest, everyone has AS traits. It's the number an individual has that determines their being labelled. I see a lot of people trying to paint the diagnostic criteria as this nebulous bit of information that is wide open to interpretation in order to fit themselves under it. While there is some argument over the criteria, it is not as wide open as some people like to portray.

I don't really buy into the whole disappearing symptoms line. Sure, you might be able to mask symptoms better, but they don't disappear. It's the way the brain is wired. Maybe whatever AS-like symptoms exhibited at a younger age in the example you mention were the result of observational learning from parents or siblings.

Of course you have to have severe impairments, it's not a designer victim label for wrist cutting emos to justify their persecution complex. It's a serious condition, and it infuriates me when all these cyberchondriacs latch onto it as an excuse.


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timeisdead
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08 May 2009, 12:45 am

raisedbyignorance wrote:
So my parents are very ignorant people regarding my AS. I had the misfortune of not being diagnosed with AS until I was an adult so there are very few services out there for me.

My parents are constantly badgering me to find a job and they still insist that it's as simple as walking into a store and filling out an application. I need a way to inform my parents that I can't just walk myself into a store, fill out an application, do an interview and get a job...especially since retail/hourly wage jobs are a horrible position for aspies due to the social communication it demands with customers, etc.

Can anyone recommend me a book or an article so I can get my parents to understand that I can't approach job hunting like normal people due to my AS and my poor emotional/social state of mind, that I may need some special assistance in finding employment?

I'm in Indiana where employment is horrid. I'm sick of fighting all the poor normal people out there for a regular job and losing (despite having a college degree) over my poor ability to do well at a job interview.


Why don't you try getting a college degree?



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08 May 2009, 1:24 am

raisedbyignorance: I have a quick question. Are you my clone? I know I've never been to Indiana, and it's different people, but that sounds exactly like my story up until a year ago. timeisdead is right. Try going to college for something that you can use. I'm attending a junior college for web design and may end up getting a second degree in graphic design before I'm done. It's tough, since visual communication is pretty nonverbal, but it's something and I don't have to deal with concentration issues on programming. See what you want to do for work, then find out how to make it happen. It may end up coming down to getting out of your parents' home, which is what it sounds like is the problem.

You didn't say you're still there, but if they have that much control over you, it sure sounds like me and my grandmother. I had to come all the way across the continent to get away from her, but all it took was getting into a new support system.


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08 May 2009, 10:16 am

I would recommend going to graduate school in something that is more condusive to the work environment you may want. I would try to sell your parents on the idea as well.
For example: University of Wisconsin Milwaukee has a Master of Library of Information Science degree that you can do over the internet. Right now there is shortage of librarians and archivists. Library and Archivist jobs are usually pretty quiet, when there is social interaction, it is often on an informational level, and in small groups or one on one.
Its also a fairly inexpensive as UW Milwaukee has instate tuition for all MLIS students last time I checked.
So any student loan burden will be kept to a mininum, and you can do this without extensive interaction.

This is really just an idea, but if you need help, I can help. I have been through this and found my own way. I have also helped other people who have issues with this.



Katie_WPG
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08 May 2009, 2:25 pm

ignisfatuus wrote:
I'm not sure what the age sample was for those stats, but I think you're wrong in the assumption they were sampling primarily from a population under 22.

As for the rest, everyone has AS traits. It's the number an individual has that determines their being labelled. I see a lot of people trying to paint the diagnostic criteria as this nebulous bit of information that is wide open to interpretation in order to fit themselves under it. While there is some argument over the criteria, it is not as wide open as some people like to portray.

I don't really buy into the whole disappearing symptoms line. Sure, you might be able to mask symptoms better, but they don't disappear. It's the way the brain is wired. Maybe whatever AS-like symptoms exhibited at a younger age in the example you mention were the result of observational learning from parents or siblings.

Of course you have to have severe impairments, it's not a designer victim label for wrist cutting emos to justify their persecution complex. It's a serious condition, and it infuriates me when all these cyberchondriacs latch onto it as an excuse.


When it comes to adults with AS, it's impossible to get accurate statistics. I think the current count is less than 1 in 13,000 for officially diagnosed adults (18+). But the number is 1 in 300 for 8 year olds.

So, either AS is on the rise, or there are tons of undiagnosed people out there. Some of which might have a hard time in life, but many others who live independantly and have full-time jobs. Out of those two groups, who is more likely to seek out an official diagnosis? If both of those types of people go into a psychologist's office, who is more likely to GET one?

12% is the count for officially diagnosed adults. The number would increase if we were to actually factor in everyone with AS, not just the less than 1 in 13,000. And that 12% of the diagnosed population might actually increase if we were to use AS only, instead of AS/HFA.