Discipline

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I asked my dauther's therapist and her doctor this question, but I got no answer. Maybe I will here.

How do I know when my daughter's outburst is a result of her Asperger's and needs to be understood or when it is just a child acting out and needs discipline?

You don't. You always understand and you always expect the rules to be followed. There are always triggers to any child's outburst and if you can find out what they are, you can try and alleviate them. Discipline means enforcing social skills, it is not punishment. Every child needs discipline to learn to self-manage and get along. Providing structure and expectations, regardless of condition, creates boundaries that people can live with.

It takes a long time figure things out! Sometimes you don't! However, the more situations come about, the more you will realize in time what exactly is making the child tick. For example...my son stared to refuse going to school. Why? Never did before? What was it? Could something have happened at school? Could something have happened on the school bus? (he is 6) Took me 3 months to figure it out - and it was the Asperger's - it was his uncomfortable socks and shoes. He hated putting them on - therefor refusing to get dressed - turned into "I'm not going to school today!"

How did I figure this out? I watched his EVERY single move one morning trying to figure it out! I finally learned that his feet grew a 1/2 size. I bought him seamless socks, new sneakers, new boots, new sandles. Has not refused to go to school since. 3 months of agony! And all it was was the socks and shoes! Why couldn't he tell me that? Because he didn't realize it either. Brat? or Asperger's?

Always Asperger's with him. Rarely the usually typical kid stuff because he is not a typical kid! no NT about it! Most of the time, it is something sensory related.

I have the same experience - 99 times out of 100 it's autism related. By now, I've used so much time trying to work my autistic son out, I find him more predictable than his NT brother!!
That doesn't mean that "anything goes" - but it does mean that you have to have your "autism glasses" on and solve problems and create the behaviour you want in a different way - a way that works for your child. It also means picking your battles carefully!
The times I have tried to treat him more NT have been a dismal failure.

It's almost impossible to tell, really, although, if you have the time for it while they are starting to act out, think about what earlier has happened in the day. Was there anything in particular that could have stressed your child? If so, it's probably the AS, if not, it's probably the acting out.

I am no expert on this, but this is just something I've noticed a lot. All the same, when it comes to dicipline, get her to a quieter place, it always helps ((unless they hate quiet.)) And tell her what not to do in a clear, precise way, and then let her back out, unless she needs to stay where it's quieter.

Does that help any?

But all the same, as others have said, oftentimes, it's autism-related, I rarely find people with AS having outbursts for other reasons ((both in my own experiences, and that from my friends.))

Thanks for your advice everyone, and I hope this isn't a stupid question, but what does NT mean?

Also, most of the issues with my daughter's Aspergers are hyper or scheduling related. One time she freaked out because we didn't go to the convinence store she likes when leaving my friend's house. At the time, I thought she was just being a brat, but what if her reaction was more to a variance in her routine than not getting a candy bar?

I would say the later, in your example with your daughter. Aspie kids cannot deal with things that do not go as expected. My answer has basically been to train my son not to expect, lol. He can deal with a change in routine if he is prepared for it, or not otherwise locked into the assumption that a routine will be followed. If I do something he likes once, I've realized it quickly becomes expected, so I head that off at the start. Yes, we have many routines, of course, but I've learned to be careful about what becomes routine, and what doesn't.

NT means nuerotypical. "Normal" kids. I don't think you will see that anywhere but in Apsie forums.

I would say that my son does not have outbursts that are discipline issues. They are always stress/coping related. Not to say that he won't challenge my authority, but he doesn't have an outburst or meltdown while doing so. It is clearly and obviously different. My NT daughter, on the other hand, is quite the actress. It is amazing how fast you can appease an actress. My son can NEVER make a turn around from upset to happy the way she does, which is one reason why I am so sure of the difference. Once he has had an outburst, I could flip things around and make everything right, but he STILL will be upset, because the whole process is out of his control at that point.

That does not mean we can't help our children learn to spot the signs leading up to a meltdown, so that they can give us notice and we can work together to head it off. My son has progressed with that a lot. If he tells me he is about to have a freak out (his term), I change course. He rarely does that, and when he does I can recognize the impending signs as well, so this has not become something he has ever chosen to abuse. Interesting because it isn't like he would never lie about anything - he does all the time, to avoid doing things like washing his hands or brushing his teeth - but when it comes to the really deep things, the core, he doesn't seem to be capable of it.

I asked one of the therapists at TEACCH this same exact question and she said everything in his life is related to his autism. The psychologist that we are working with recommended a book called 1 2 3 Magic.

That's the $64,000 question isn't it? IMHO Aspergers is never an excuse for something - it is the reason for it. Is my son being "bad" because he has trouble talking loudly in public (or at home!)? or is it the Apsergers? Is my son being "bad" when he misunderstands our instructions to him or is it our fault for not explaining it in a way he can understand? Is my son being "bad" or "mean" when he makes one of his sort of rude, but truth filled comments that you really shouldn't say or is he still learning the nuances of social interaction?

I know my son is a good person and Aspergers is part of my son's entire being so the behaviors he exhibits that might be misconstrued as defiance or non-compliance (I'm thinkking of school now) are absolutely not that at all.

Smunkey, most of what you have described sounds typical for all AS children, with or without the ADHD. What I have discovered with my son is that homework is very intimidating to him, and half the time he has stressed himself out just by looking at it, and thinking about having to do it. It's as if in that moment he cannot conceive of being able to ever finish it. And, thus, he started all the tricks to try to get out of it, much as your son has.

One thing that really has helped is to uncover some of those mental barriers, and remove them. The other thing that has helped was for him to make the decision with his counselor that he should sit down and do homework the moment he got home from school. His decision, not ours. The final thing that may have spurred him to solve this for himself was discovering that when he goes to middle school next year, his grades will depend in large part on turning in his homework. He is just appalled that someone could get a D in a class while knowing every detail of the material, simply for not doing the homework! Of course, at first we got weeks of discussion on this concept, but with the help of his teacher and counselor (and us, of course) he seems to have finally moved into a phase of acceptance, and decided he had pretty darn well figure out how to complete the stuff without stressing himself out. Some days it is still really difficult for him, but I am seeing a lot of progress.