Just need to vent about son

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My AS stepson is 15 and after several months of not seeing him, we now have him 2 days/week. His mom would not make him come over and when my husband went to get him, she would tell him to get off her property!

Well, his is failing 3 classes. When we finally got a hold of his all his grades, he wasn't turning in any homework! I know this is executive dysfunction, and he needs some help. Mom would not let us help, but also would not make sure it was done at her house. What a nightmare. Well, he is still failing, but on the nights we have him, we make sure the sure the homework is done. That's all we can do.

Honestly, I do not believe he will graduate high school--at least not on time. I also do not believe he will be able to hold down any type of job. The reason I feel this is because his mom will never encourage him to do so, (she is a HUGE enabler) and because he refuses to voluntarily spend time with his dad and I. Believe me when I say we have tried many things, but when you don't have much time with someone and you have another parent fighting against you, it is very difficult. After weighing all the pros/cons, we have decided that forcing the issue in court is not best.

His dad has already said that if he is not either going to school full-time or working a full-time job, then he will not be allowed to live with us past the age of 18. This child is very difficult to like, and he just wants to take, take, take. I know it is the aspie in him that brings out this behavior, but it could be modified if his mom wouldn't fight us so much. His aspie traits have really been coming out since he started high school. I know it is partially anxiety at a new environment, but he fights EVERY attempt to help. It is so hard to keep forcing help on a young adult. The constant lying (about EVERYTHING, big and small), the constant refusal to take any responsibility, etc, constantly fighting us on any attempt to teach anything or help. His dad and I are so fed up. I suspect that one day mom will also get fed up and then this boy will be homeless and unemployed, because we will not be taking him in.

His dad and I are very hard-working and have strict standards at our house; especially when it comes to responsibility and lying. While you can make allowances at your house for an aspie, you are not doing them any favors by ignoring bad behavior. We believe that teaching and showing and helping is good, and we try to praise when we can. However, we believe that an employer will not excuse bad behavior, therefore we must address it also. The statistics for these kids are horrible, but you can only force so much.

Wow, he sounds like he's got a pretty messed up home life. I hope you are all in group therapy together, his mom included. Divorce can screw a kid's life up pretty bad, and it sounds like the messages he's getting from his parents are making it even harder for him.

You're right--it is messed up. You can't make all situations perfect. Our son goes to therapy. Mom will never go, and we will not be around her to go as a group. It is hard to post all details of any life, but my husband has to avoid seeing the mom as our son is always trying to get them back together (they have been divorced 13 years)--it is one of his fantasies. Long story, but my husband has tried to talk to him about that, to no avail. The only way son doesn't obsess over it is when he doesn't see them in the same room.

We are already forcing the child to be with us at our house 2 days/week--forcing him to counseling with us would be too much. I honestly think he likes his counseling alone because it is his personal space.

Do realize though, that being in 2 different homes is really, really hard for a kid on the spectrum. Routine is as basic a need for him as air, water and food. And he's just not getting that.

Is there any way he could live with one parent for weekdays/school, and the other parent for weekends? Or just live with one parent? I know in most divorce situations the parents will try to share custody, but I think in this case it's harming him more than it's benefitting him.

If you read the first part of my original post, you would see that we were not allowed to see him for several months. During those months, he started failing most classes--so being in one house was NOT helping him. Getting him for 2 days/week was a major victory! At least now he is getting some counseling and turning in some homework--something he was NOT getting in one house. I realize that being in two homes is hard, however, he is NOT getting ANY help at birth mom's house. We will not just let him sit in a house where he is not getting any help. But it sounds like that is what you think we should do?! Also in my original post was that we weighed the pros and cons and decided against getting the courts involved. There is no other way to do custody at this time! I have already described how birth mom will not work with us!

I am sorry to hear that the situation is so difficult.

First, please don't give up hope on the CHILD. He is, really, a product of what his mother has made him become. With patience, you could change that. I know you are frustrated, and I won't pretend that you will ever stop being frustrated, but you can NOT give up. And, PLEASE, do NOT enforce a "full time" school or job after 18 or good-bye rule. AS kids take longer to grow up, and an 18 year old AS child is much more like a 14 year in what he or she can or cannot handle and take responsibility for.

Think of your step son as growing up slower, but do not think of him as not growing up. He is completely capable of it IF allowed to do it his own pace and in his own time. One of the reasons you are seeing such complete withdrawal by him is because he has probably given up - life is trying to force him to mature faster than his brain is capable of, so he assumes he can never get there, so why keep trying. But with support and patience he CAN get there, and he NEEDS someone to show him that road. Between a birth mother who won't support him by managing his homework and a father who insists he act his age when he isn't ready to, well, it sounds to me like there isn't a single person in his life willing to give him what he really needs.

If you can give him what he needs, which it sounds like he isn't getting from his mom, then the difficulty of living in two households will be worth it. But don't make this like a ping pong experience where he runs from extreme of parenting style to another. Find the middle ground that will work for him.

Some additional things to be aware of.

First, many AS can't hold full time jobs but CAN hold part time jobs. He will not be able to live up to the hard driven life that you are used to, but that does NOT mean he cannot become self-sufficient and productive. There is nothing "lazy" about working only part time if that is what you have the mental energy for. For some reason many AS NEED a lot more "down" time than we NT's can imagine, and perhaps that is simply because living in the world is so much harder for them. Think of going to school or work as the same as having to run a marathon every day. It is THAT intense for some. So ... adjust your standards. Look for a balance he will be capable of, not what you simply "expect."

Second, many AS, because they take things so literally, "learn" at an early age that the entire world does nothing but lie. Hence, they see the rest of us as total hypocrits when we tell them not to lie, and they give up on the standard completely. If you want him to stop lying, you will have to teach him the nuance of language, let go of ever again saying "you know what we meant" and re-establish trust. This isn't a barrier that has to exist forever, but you will need to work on it with a lot of patience. I really hope you will.

I know that you have a lot on your plate, and that I am asking you and your husband to take on things that are very time consuming and that will try your patience to the extreme. But you OWE it to the child. You can NOT give up on him just because his mom has failed him and his father, and because he has learned destructive habits. You can NOT write him off as a future homeless or failure or institutional case when there ARE things that can help him. And that, specifically, is to revise your standards into something that will give him a sense he CAN succeed, while teaching him the skills he needs to be independent.

I would also ask for an IEP meeting at the school, and request that he be given a supervised study period in which to do homework and work on time management skills. That is step 1. Make the school do their job, which is to support him where he needs it. I know all the arguments they will throw back at you, but long run there is only one issue: the child deserves to succeed at school, and assignng him to a support period instead of an elective costs the school net nothing. There is no good reason for them not to, so I'd be firm about it. Although, make sure he is good with the idea first. Doing things with the agreement of an AS child is another good way to make sure the plans will fail - these are kids that NEED to be part of all decisions that affect them.

I hope you can help. I don't believe you would have come here to "vent" if you hadn't also hoped you might find the road to a better way.

Your tone is hysterical and inflexible. If I were the boy, I would resist you at every turn, too. You have no conception what a nightmarish hell he lives in. The world is such a simple place for you - black and white - all wheels turning in unison, as they should.

Except for that blasted Aspie kid. Always jamming up the gears. Damn his eyes. If he doesn't learn to think and behave like the rest of us, he's outta here, the lazy-ass.

I only hope he finds some escape from self-righteous pseudo-do-gooders like you. Nothing like loads of enforced HELP from people who don't care enough to understand you, but rather insist that you function THE SAME WAY THEY DO. To someone with a brain dysfunction, that is not help. It's torture.

Wait for it - here it comes - the demand for a simple answer that requires no empathy...

To DW: Thank you for your thoughtful reply. It is very clear that you have experienced frustration also. Please know that what you have contributed is being very carefully considered.

To Willard: I AM frustrated (you see it as hysterical)at people who comment, but don't read the original post. I am sooooo sorry I ever posted. According to you I should just let him sit at mom's house with failing grades, no counselor, nothing. It sounds you think that is better. Well, I can not predict what will happen after he is 18, but right now I am sure most people will agree that he needs to do his homework, he needs some coaching skills for dealing with the world, he needs his counseling and therapy--things he does not get at mom's house. If that is torture, then so be it. I will not allow him to sit at mom's house doing nothing. He doesn't have to behave "like the rest of us". But he does need an education to make a informed CHOICE on how to behave when that time comes. From your post, it seems you believe we should just let autustic kids and aspies wander around fending for themselves, never learning anything from another human being. Aspies are like regular kids in that they don't come with a parenting manual--every parent does what they can at that moment. I believe that given how we have to battle his mom that we are doing a darn good job right now. It's easy for him to choose mom as she has zero expectations. Things may improve in the future--or they may not. But I believe in giving him more, and that is why he will have to suffer through the 'torture' of counseling, doing homework, and learning some social/coping skills. When he grows up he doesn't have to use those skills if he doesn't want to, but he will know them if he needs them. If I was everything you say I am, then I would just let him waste at his mom's house, and dad and I would have zero involvement.

I don't think Willard is suggesting you just let the child be at his mom's. Among other things, we don't know what he is experiencing there. Willard really isn't commenting on that. What he is commenting on are his feelings about strict rules that are difficult or impossible to meet by many with AS. Re-read what he has said from that perspective, as if you were someone who had spent a life with people who insisted you learn certain things you simply couldn't do within the guidelines and constraints given. You will find a lot of that here, the frustration from the former child's point of view. It's important to see, but understanding what that means is more complex than you are realizing.

You'll get similar complaints from those who grew up under parents who didn't do anything to help, who never held a single expectation, etc. Kids who were longing for someone to show them the way, but no one ever did; they just let it all be. It's just giving up with a different stripe on it, but it's still giving up.

You can't force the child to be what he isn't and you can't expect him to find the road without hlep. Either route and you fail him. You know that the road the mom has chosen is failing him, but you do also have to look at the road you are on. It's much easier for the AS members here to tell you what can be done wrong than what can be done right, because most of them grew up in times when no one understood AS and everyone either wrote them off or tried to force them to be NT. You'll get very, VERY valuable input from the AS members here, but when you read the posts, remember where they are coming from, and don't take it personally. It's a warning, yes, but not the attack it seems to be.

To get it right you will have to understand how the world looks from the child's perspective. Not what he tells you he wants, but a true inside out view. The world is very different for him in very real ways. But that is going to take time, reading, and patience. Find the patience to read and absorb what poster's like Willard have to say without jumping to conclusions, because those conclusions are often wrong. You can't understand his point unless you understand him. Be patient with that. When I first posted I found it really frustrating. And then I realized ... if I couldn't figure it out with the AS adults on a forum, how could I expect to ever understand my own child well enough to get it right by him? It's like an exercise in NT - AS communication. Use it as such.

I am really glad you've come here. You will get a perspective that can truly improve your relationship with your step-son, but it won't come easy. We'll turn much of your thinking completely upside down, simply because raising an AS child goes against conventional wisdom is many, many ways. But it will be SO VERY worth it. AS kid's come with gifts, and when you arrange things so that the gifts shine you will be amazed and overjoyed. My son can make me so proud, it's beyond description. I can't imagine how he thinks as he does, but the world needs people like him that see things in an entirely different way.

NO ONE has posted that allowing him to fail would have been the right answer, or that just going by the mom's road would be the best. No one believes that, I am sure of it. While your life has certainly been dad v. birth mom, that isn't what the answers you get here are about. They are about asking, "how does it look from the child's perspective?" It doesn't sound like anyone in his life has been trying to do that, and it is a very, very good place to start.

Your last few paragraphs in the original post were a bit hard to swallow, I admit that. But I could sense it was frustration, what you worry about, but not what you believe in your heart. The AS here aren't able to read between lines, so forgive them if they react negatively to it. What I knew was that you wouldn't have come here if you had really wanted to give up, or if you were certain everything about your approach was right. You are looking for a new road, and in their own rough way everyone who has posted here has tried to show you one. Sometimes you have to look behind the anger and history and literal reading and see what is hidden in there for you. You've taken a step and I'm proud of you for wanting to make a difference as a step-parent. Please don't run away. We have many philosophies and approaches on this forum, and other step parents as well. And, yes, you will get lots of practice in communication with angry AS. All of it will help you and your step son. I truly believe that.

Welcome. And best of luck.

I really think you should listen very carefully to what DW_a_mom has said. She sounds like a wonderful mother and a wonderful human being in general - and I don't mean that in any way I am comparing you unfavourably to her at all, I just felt compelled to complement her on some very well considered and relevant posts. That said, I can't say how much this thread has disturbed me, it reminded me in the worst way possible of my own struggles around that age, and I didn't have the benifit of any diagnosis or therapy at all. I don't know your AS step-son, and I'm sure that what you're trying to do for him is with the best possible intention. But you must remember, he is not a normal person. I can remember the awful feeling of being literally unable to cope, but utterly unable to communicate why and how I was unable. I think the lying and defiant attitude is not merely rebellion or bad behavoir, but is the last dying embers of a phyche in utter meltdown. It's true that AS children take longer than NT to mentally mature, and highschool can be a very hard time of life to fit in for many NT kids, let alone one with AS. I think he has given up, imploded in on himself and is only living for the moments of fleeting respite, and that is a very serious mental state to be in. As he's probably only thinking of escape, it's understandable that he's missing all his work when at his mother's house, who's probably letting the situation slide. I also think that above all, it probably has to be accepted that he will never be totally "normal", and so expecting and demanding a normal progression through adolescence is not realistic. Not to say he can't be self-sufficient and lead a good life, but I think you're going to have to accept he will need your extra support beyond the age of 18, or face a very dark future. The bottom line of what I'm trying to say is that if your step-son is anything like me, he's going through hell at the moment, he needs to know he's loved, that it's elements of behaviour which he needs serious help on that are the problem, not that he himself is an enormous walking problem. That awful feeling of dread that everything in your life is falling apart, that you yourself are wrong and bad and your parents think you're lazy and pathetic is just the worst feeling in the world.

Just some general information. I have clinical executive dysfunction. Beyond a small amount of it (non clinical), there is no known intervention for it that has been proven to work.

Believe me they weren't able to help me with it when I was kid, and not as a adult, and it is entirely my own effort to seek such a solution for a long time.

What you need to watch out for is that some psychiatrist use 'executive dysfunction' as a sort of buzz word. However they don’t really understand it because they are not functionalist. You can’t be diagnosed with clinical executive dysfunction without a standardised test that takes several hours.

Hello, I feel moved to post here as I feel I can relate, from a couple different perspectives. I am a single Father of a son, 15, with diagnosed AS

He has posted on this forum, user name; daniel_von_disco

I too am faced with, "What's the right way to raise my son?" I don't know really... but, I know what hasn't worked with him... what hasn't worked with me. (I am also AS Im sure...) force really doesn't work! For the past year my son hasn't gone to school, hasn't been involved with the outside world much at all. His entire social life, aside from with me, is virtual. I worry about how his adult life will be like. I really feel your frustration in wanting whats right for your son, but feeling lost, as to the right way. I am less sure about "what needs to be" then your post sounded like. I know the way my parents raised me, isn't the right way to raise my son... with a hard hand, and force. For the past year I have pretty much let my son raise himself, and he spends every day, all day long, on the computer, learning what he choses to learn. I do try to take him out for daily nature walks giving him some excercise and a break from the screen. His life is very routine, and he seems relatively happy. Just over a year ago however, he was in the mental hospital twice, not wanting to live any more. When you're faced with these realities, you're forced to take a good hard look at your ideals...what works, what doesn't work, and what you know... I don't know much, I have my ideas, and I understand him to some degree, becasue I understand he is a little like me, yet so very different too. I am hard working, responsible. He is lazy, and probably won't work a day in his life. I just hope he can figure out how to make a living with his mind. He is a writer, and with the proper motivation, mentoring, I have no doubt he can one day realize his dreams. The flip side of this is.... will he want to live in my house forever, not doing a thing for himself... those are my fears... and I try to tell myself, that he is 15, he has plenty of time to prepare himself for adulthood. What if he chooses to be homeless... because to "make a living" is too hard... these and more, are my concerns... and will I honor that choice, if it's his choice? What are my responsibilities as a parent? Where do my responsibilities stop?

Dan

limpet and Dbeach, I was really moved by your posts. I hope the OP will come back and read them.

limpet, I am sorry you've had such a rough road.

Dbeach, I've found with my son, and I know he is much younger than yours so much can still change, that honoring his needs as they exist NOW does not mean things will always be this way. There are periods where he seems to need to withdraw, and regroup, to gain the energy to move forward. And he DOES end up moving forward. His own time, his own way. We are fortunate that he does not have to deal with depression, but I do encounter that issue in my NT daughter and in myself. Again, it seems to mean periods that are dead, but then a new force comes in and there is drive again. NOTHING is permanent in life, and that includes motivation or lack or it. The key is to keep your eyes open for the opportunities to move into a new phase, so that you don't inadvertently leave the doors closed and prevent it. Always encourage, always leave behind a set of keys (figuratively speaking) and always exhibit hope and confidence in the child's ability to move forward and beyond and make the right choice for him (even when you don't feel it).

I have another thought, or worry as it may be. Does the birth mother of the child in this thread post here? She might; I do not keep track well enough to know. Just in case, I want to be clear that I write to the person asking the question and to the needs and views I sense from them. The goal here is to find what is best for each child, to figure out how each unique parenting figure can help that child, given their unique viewpoints and abilities. There are no sides here another than the child's, and I truly hope that nothing I post will ever make a parent in a difficult divorce feel as if I've picked one. All parent figures need to feel confident and positive because that is, simply, what the child needs. Anything I post is with that goal in mind. I truly hope that no one is coming here to win points against a different parent figure and a different view, because the child can do well with a variety. What I want is for each parental figure to give the best that they, as a unique individual, have for that child, also a unique individual, TO that child.

Yeah, and then you will be called heartless when you don't want to support him for the rest of his life.

Mrripples, you are doing everything you can, and I applaud you for it. The problem isn't so much the step-son, it is the mother. She is sacrificing short term harmony for long term development. However, when the kid grows up, I guarantee you that your husband and you will be expected to support the kid for the rest of his life.

Personally, I would fight it in court. This kids future is future is at stake here.

I'm concerned that the relationship with the mom seems oppositional. I think it's important to keep in mind that this child is his mother's son, meaning that he likely inherited some of his "issues" from his mom. I think it would be appropriate to change your expectations re: the mom. If you can find a way to let go of you reaction to her, I think you might see opportunities to show her compassion and empathy. Obviously I don't know the situation or your history, so I'm speaking in broad and general terms, but people as a rule respond so much more calmly and functionally when they feel themselves to be on the receiving end of kindness and a conspiracy to help. Maybe think of what you can do to frame your interactions with the mom as a parallel relationship instead of one fraught with power struggles?

I'm not sure I'm being clear. But if you were to put yourself in her shoes, you *might* see yourself and your husband as a kind of emotional threat to her. Perhaps she's really doing the very best she can with everything she has in her and you and your husband look very much effective where she feels ineffective, very high-functioning where she feels ineffectual and somewhat powerless. None of this means one of you is right and the other wrong, but it might help you all speak of these things more easily and therefore make genuine progress for this boy whom you call son.

In stressing similarities and drawing on everyone's hope for this boy's success, you may also be able to recognize aspects of him in his father and vice versa. This too may enable you all to treat the situation more gently and again, to achieve a good outcome for a boy whom you clearly care enough about to go looking for resources -- no small thing, that.

And yes, get the school involved. Much advocacy can be acheived there without having to handle some of the tangential issues.

Blessings.