How do you survive this?

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because my son wouldnt sit in the cart or hold my hand he was two and I just had my second son, I used a toddler leash. It worked wonders. I told him it was his safety belt and it would help him be close to me so nothing would happen to him yet he had his space.

I got dirty looks in the store, but at least he was safe.

My mother uesd these with my brothers when they were little, they are 18mos apart and would run in oposit directions when she would take them to the store by herself. It worked well for her I never used them myself but don't see anything wroung with them if used to keep a child safe.

We used a combination of things when my daughter was that age:
The kid leash really does work for a runner, and they have cute ones out there now...I saw some at Target the other day. They are different fuzzy animal backpacks with a leash attached and look a little less like you're "walking the kid".
We also used bribery...actually she's 6 now and we still use bribery:) We sit in the car right before we go in and run through the short list of expectations: stay with Mommy, no screaming, etc. Then we let her know that if she makes it all the way to the end of the store visit and follows the rules, she can have <whatever we're willing to get her>. Often it's something small, like she can pick any piece of fruit she wants to eat in the car on the way home. VERY important to go back and pick the reward at the END of the trip...she talked me into letting her pick a fruit towards the beginning and hold it until the end and that never happened again:)
And for the times when it just doesn't work but you have to get the shopping done, I printed up cards to hand to well meaning or annoying strangers, basically telling them that I wasn't a bad parent, that I was dealing with a special needs child, that the added attention made the situation worse, and to kindly leave us alone.

My son was that way, especially before he could communicate well. A few things I did was:

use picture schedules that explained exactly where were were going and why. don't go to too many places in one outing, he may get over stimulated with every transition.

I also used the kid leash and it was great. Ignore those who look at you like you are cruel. They have no idea. Eventually I used it only when he wouldn't comply. I also told him that if he doesn't hold my hand, I will hold his arm. He hated me holding his arm, so he would comply.

Bribery is fine for these kids. When I go to the store I tell him that if he is good then I will get him a little prize. Give it to him when you are done so he waits and is good. If this works, token economys, (i.e. behavior charts will probably work well too when he gets a little older)

Most of all, ignore the tantrums...be totally uneffected. If they know they can control you with it, and they get something out of it, they will continue.

There are many suggestions on this thread. Keep trying new things until you get something that works with your son. Every kid is different...and remember....

Try not to explain yourself to other people, you know your child and you are a good parent and it's none of their business. You don't need to explain anything to anyone...and most of all...this won't last forever. Your child will mature, and you will explore solutions until you get some that work.

Then you'll be off to your next issue

Good Luck...this is a hard thing to deal with....

These are all such great suggestions! Thank you all so much.

MommyJones: I like the picture schedule idea. I just started (as in last week) doing something kind of like that. I went out one day and took a ton of photos of all the places we typically go (grocery store, city park, day care, friends' houses, etc.) and put them in a special book for him. Before we went to our friends' house on Saturday, I removed the photos of them and their house and put them in a smaller book. Then I showed it to him several times Friday evening and Saturday morning. I talked about our friends and all the things we'd do at their house. And he did really good with the outing!! But then I did it Sunday morning before we went to the grocery store, and he freaked out anyway. One out of two ain't bad for just starting out, I guess.

I also saw a lot of you mention the leash. We had tried this a few times when Lucas was younger (one and a half years old). It didn't seem to work for us, but I can't seem to remember why. It might be time to try it again - it was the backpack kind, as I recall, so not as obvious as the wrist leash.

I will also do a bribe next time I go to the store. I might try it tonight since I need to pick up an item from the grocery store after I pick him up from daycare. I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks again for all the great words of wisdom. You guys are great!

Is the store usually the worst problem? It could then definitely be sensory. Grocery stores can be noisy, smelly, and harshly lit. Try sunglasses and earphones and see if that helps.

DW_a_mom: Yes, his most frequent meltdowns happen in the grocery store or mall. It also occurred quite frequently during a recent "vacation" to Santa Monica. (Note the "" on vacation).

I discussed the sensory overload theory with my husband, but he was skeptical and I'm not sure either. This is because the meltdowns are almost always precipitated by Lucas not getting what he wants. Examples: At the grocery store he sees the fruit and wants to eat the apples and grapes immediately. We say "not now, wait til we pay." And he freaks out. Or he gets fixated on the Thomas the Train set at the bookstore and won't want to leave it when it's time to go. So he freaks out.

Aren't these typical triggers for even NT tantrums? That's why we're not sure about the sensory overload theory, even though I have definitely considered it more than once. Of course, the intensity of the tantrums cross over from NT into AS once the screams start vibrating windows.

(By the way, tonight's after-school trip to the grocery store resulted in another massive meltdown triggered by Lucas not getting strawberries. This time the store security guard even came to see what was going on. We had to leave without buying our groceries - not forced out by the guard but by our own good sense to get outta there.)

We've had similar problems with my 4 year old and found a variety of techniques work.

Picture schedule as mentioned above is vital.

At the suggestion of my daughters early intervention teacher last year we did what I call "Retail Therapy"

From my blog entry on Retail Therapy

"My solution was to do all my grocery shopping online until Annie is at school next year then try and reassess the situation. But talking to Heidis teacher at her Early Intervention Centre we’ve come up with a different plan – Retail Therapy.

Each week I’m going to take Heidi to the Preston Market. The first week we are just going to get Pizza and then go for a little walk to a nearby park (quiet place).

Second week we will go get Pizza and visit our favorite fruit and veg shop to buy one apple (or other piece of fruit that Heidi chooses) and then go for a little walk to a nearby park (quiet place).

Third week again Pizza, then the fruit and veg shop and we will get one apple and one other piece of fruit and then go for our walk.

Each week we will slowly build on what we have done the previous week and hopefully together we will work out ways to help Heidi cope, sort of desensitization therapy. I’m still going to do my grocery shopping online because I can’t figure out how to fit in retail therapy and grocery shopping into the one week."

We also have a backpack that my daughter takes everywhere with her. It is full of her sensory supplies and has things like Sunglasses mentioned above and a few other bits and pieces that have saved our bacon more often than not.

more info about that if you want it - http://leechbabe.wordpress.com/2008/12/ ... -disorder/

Wise words I heard recently were to not react to something as if it was an Autism problem first, sometimes it can just be a typical behaviour for the age that is amplified by the frustration of being unable to communicate or sensory overload.

Mom_of_Lucas: when my son was very small, he couldn't understand waiting for something - it wasn't logical to him. If it was there, in front of him, and he wanted it, there was NOTHING that could persuade him that there was a reason to wait for it. He did, however, learn about paying for things, and this was logical to him. But sometimes he wanted to hold his "treasure" in the cart the whole time. Until he got used to surrendering the item to the cashier, we had to explain carefully why he needed to give up the item briefly, and show him how the other items were being charged to our bill. This was years before dx (he was diagnosed at age , so we just attributed it to the age and strong will.

Have you tried social stories with your son? Social stories are stories that go over the details of what you are going to do, along with details like "we always wait until we pay for our food at the cash register before we eat it" and the reasons why you do that (e.g. you can't weigh an apple that's already been eaten).

I always tried to avoid taking any of my children grocery shopping with me, but when I had to bring them, I brought a "survival bag" of things with me - a drink, snacks (more than one kind), toys, books ... That also helped a lot. Even if a child isn't hungry when you get to the store, it can take a long time, and being surrounded by all that food can make anyone hungry!

There's some great advice here.

I went through the same things as you describe.

The only thing i can add here, and that I learnt very quickly.... is never to worry about what anyone else thinks about your child or his/her behaviour... be it a friend, family or stranger....also )not saying you do this by any means)... but never feel you have to try to discipline or change your childs behaviour to suit any one else because that's what they expect of you.

This is a great thread. If I may add, if you promise your child something, be it a toy, snacks for good behavior etc., you HAVE to follow through with your promise. This sounds pretty obvious but what happened was I promised my lad a fruit juice on leaving the amusement park (without throwing a tantrum), but his mother held back after we got the juice because he already had one that day ("too much artificial packaged juice not good for you").

Naturally my lad went berserk and I only realized my mistake by the time we got home. A child will remember your bribes if it's the last thing on earth. Need to be careful of what you say or promise. I felt I betrayed my lad even.

Best of luck everyone and thanks again for the great responses.

I have a real issue with this sort of thing - and it's at least partially because I'm an aspie too.

I need to feel like I'm delivering everything I promise. It's very difficult to get the word "promise" out of me because I not only have to agree but I have to feel that what I'm promising is achievable even if other things go wrong.

The other thing is that I have to feel that I'm being fair. Keeping promises is part of it but so is giving kids the benefit of a doubt (innocent until proven guilty). If I didn't witness a "crime" and I can't pull a confession out either by honesty or "Judge Judy style tactics" then the child is innocent.

This causes me a lot of grief when I get home and my wife says "daddy is going to punish you because you didn't do .....".

I know we're supposed to work in a team but I've refused to orchestrate punishments in this manner. If the wife wants to issue a punishment, then it's her call.

A couple of weeks ago, I was coming home on a Friday knowing that my wife was going out and that the boys were going to have a fun night with me. We were going to stay up and watch a movie. I work long hours and I don't get to spend as much time with my kids as I'd like to, so this was a good opportunity. I walked in the door and my wife said (in front of the boys), "they're not going to stay up because they weren't well behaved".

I had to comply because the verdict had already been given but I was very very unhappy.

Not only had the kids been punished but I had too. (and for something I never witnessed).

So... I guess my point is that rewarding kids is better than punishing them and that removing the entitlement to the reward is a great "punishment" but... the person issuing the disciplinary command should be the person executing it. They should not try to pass the buck. The best disciplinary action is immediate (or if you're at the shops, effective as soon as you get home).

Totally agree Gavin, it's like you read my mind.

I too believe it's an aspie trait whereby I must deliver as promised. Sort of like I can't allow myself to owe anything to anyone, otherwise I'm left hanging. Even before online banking was available, I would almost immediately pay off any outstanding credit card bills at the ATM. Online banking just made it more convenient. It's uncomfortable for me to be in 'outstanding credit' status so to speak.

I can understand why you were unhappy in complying with your wife's 'verdict', but if you look at it from the other side, I would've wanted my wife to support my decision in rewarding the child as promised (second fruit juice). I suppose it's a case of the parents needing to agree the disciplinary system/outcome prior to confronting the child (and behind closed doors).

It's difficult for both parents to agree all the time, sometimes when you wish to be more lenient (e.g. staying up late), the other half could've gone through a bad day. And vice versa.

Good Luck and I hope we all survive through this

Typical? Yes and no. My NT daughter's tantrums are, well, different. Hard to describe.

Obviously, I can't be sure because I don't know your child, but pretty much ALL spectrum kids have HUGE sensory issues and the simple truth is that a child who is having trouble with sensory issues is more fragile. Yes, the direct trigger may be the strawberries, but would he be that way about the strawberries in a different situation? Most likely the REASON he has no patience for not getting what he wants is that he is overloaded to start with. The more upset AS kids are by their environment, the stronger they grab out to get their own way. It's been a very clear correlation with my son, and it's the control need that tends to clue me into his actually having a sensory issue that is headed towards meltdown. I can see him getting more and more demanding, more and more upset when it isn't going his way, and all I have to do is pull him away and suggest we take a short break before discussing it further. When he can't make sense of his world, his reaction is to try to control what he can. Once I figured all that out it made SO much difference to our lives.

When my son was young, I developed a really fun system for getting out of toy stores, btw. I would sing ABC twice, the first time ending with "next time you will leave with me" and the second time ending with "now its time to leave with me" followed by a count to 20. Oh, and all THAT followed a 5 minute warning, then 3, 2 and 1 minute warnings. It may seem like a lot of work, but it was VERY effective. AS kids especially have difficulty with transitions, so the more you can develop predictable routines that allow him time to wrap up his play, the better it will go.

My NT daughter never needed more than a count to 10 to wrap up, but my AS son needed a lot more. People in the stores always thought it was the cutest thing, my version of ABC.

It does get difficult to tease out what is "normal" and what isn't, but more important than that is simply to find what WORKS. If calming things down and reducing sensory exposure means less episodes where your son gets demanding, then you'll want to do it, regardless of it is the actual cause or not. Just experiment with it, and see.

You are SO right, DW_a_mom! I hadn't considered that. When Lucas doesn't get his way at home, he might get upset, but he almost NEVER tantrums - at least not with any serious intensity. It's almost always when we're away from home or away from a familiar environment that he has a full-blown meltdown.

Wow. So, I need to figure out a way to make the outings more manageable/ less stressful for him. And I need to find a way to give him some control over the situation. Oh wow, you just solved a huge mystery for me. Thank you. And thanks to EVERYBODY who has provided me hints, tips, strategies and nods of understanding on this thread. These tantrums have been the single hardest thing I've ever dealt with, and it has been so helpful to have this help.

Best of luck to you, Mom_of_Lucas!

I've found it really helpful to be among people who "get" AS kids. Conventional parenting advice doesn't really work; we've really got to find new ways to look at things.