School Issues

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First of all, how much homework should a third grader be doing? I am just overwhelmed, even more so than my son since it all falls on me, with all this homework he is getting. It's been averaging two or more hours per day, and that does not include reading time, monthly word problems and special projects. I have to be there prodding continuously, teaching and assisting my son so he can get this work done, all the while he is making irritating noises, whining and not focusing on his work. Often times he just fights it or sits there and does nothing. I realize this is part of his disorder and not his fault. This child is spending 6 and a half hours a day at school, only to come home to do two-three hours of homework. His attitude about school went from positive to very negative. I have addressed this with the teacher and she has had him do some of it at school but it's still too much.

Some background, he does not have an IEP. His dx is PDD-NOS and SID (now known as SPD). His work has always been on or above grade level and his past two teachers have really worked with him and made adjustments for him on their own without needing an IEP. This new teacher seems to expect perfection and piles on the work. It is hard for me to keep track of everything he has to turn in! He makes a lot of minor errors on tests and school work and she marks him off for it (not putting a $ sign in front of the number when adding dollars, forgetting to color in the pie where he's clearly divided it up properly)--nitpicky stuff IMO considering he does have a disability (can't you cut him some slack lady!). I don't want to make excuses for him but maybe he could use a little help, considering much difficulty he has at home following the directions of his homework. His spelling tests have been F, A and a D. The A and D tests I worked with him to study, but the D test he was so tired of doing two hours of homework that I think he just couldn't do it anymore. I'm sure I could set him up studying on the computer and doing games and all but when would he even have the time?!

I have scheduled a meeting with the teacher and councellor tomorrow. Any thoughts on any of this or advice before I go into this meeting? I would really appreciate any help you could give me on what to do, or what I can expect the school to do.

Maybe it would help if he had an IEP? I think 2-3 hrs of homework is way too much for a 3rd grader!

I agree. And people wonder why there's so much "ADD" going on.

Most reasonable teachers (and I am not assuming this teacher is reasonable) have some idea how long the homework should take. They will generally accept a note from the parent saying that Jonny spent "x" amount of time doing homework, and this is how much he got done. Most reasonable teachers don't want homework to become a battleground that causes their students to hate school. I've dealt with numerous teachers who gave that kind of talk on back-to-school night and meant it. I've also run across some who just wanted the homework DONE!! ! It might be useful to ask the teacher how long she expects the students to spend on homework each night.

Meanwhile, it would be a good idea to get the IEP process underway. Even if you work things out with this teacher, it is not a good thing to depend on the good wishes of individual teachers to get you through. You need an IEP so that your child is protected regardless of who his teacher is. If you are concerned about ruffling feathers, use the excuse that it is easier for everyone to have things spelled out instead of having to figure it out for themselves each year, and if there is a change of teacher mid-year, with an IEP in place, things would transition much more smoothly.

The thing with the IEP is that after I turned in his diagnosis two years ago in order to get the IEP process going, they never got back to me so finally I asked what was going on with it and was told "oh, he doesn't need one since he is on grade level." Is that something I can demand? A friend of mine teaches special education and told me that they should have done testing after I turned in his diagnosis so I just wrote a letter to get that going. I'm not sure if that's going to be helpful or not. I guess it's just really confusing as to what my rights are and what I can demand, or if it's the school's decision to do an IEP. Thanks for the feedback thus far. I'm writing down what "jat" said about how to address the IEP without ruffling feathers.

A lot of schools act like being on grade level is proof that a child doesn't need an IEP. It's not true. They should be doing comprehensive testing; his primary issues may be social, but he probably needs some academic accommodations as well. He should also be assessed for speech and language - many children with ASD need speech and language therapy for pragmatics of speech. Also, some need occupational therapy - some for fine motor skills, some for sensory integration issues. Most need social skills support, which might be under the auspices of an OT or a speech/language therapist.

If your school district has a group for parents of kids with special needs (special needs PTA or a committee for special needs/education, etc), get in touch - those contacts can be invaluable! Wrightslaw can be a really helpful site - lots of good legal information if you live in the States. Don't count on the school to give you accurate information about your son's rights or entitlements - it is not in their interests to do so. They will tell you whatever they think you will accept. You need to educate yourself and advocate for your son.

I don't know if this will help...particularly not as fast as tomorrow...but the clinician that tested my daughter wrote SPECIFICALLY in her diagnosis and summary write up: "Based on this testing this child should qualify for an IEP through the public school system under the IDEA act", and then wrote two pages of IEP recommendations. The school didn't dare mess with that...despite the fact that she has very good grades academically.

Another thing to think about is that a lot of higher functioning kids on the spectrum do very well through kindergarten, first, and second grade and then things fall apart in third grade. Talking with some friends that have a lot of experience in this, they all agreed it is because K, 1, and 2 is a lot of very black and white learning, lots of memorization, etc...ie things our kids are really really good at. In about 3rd grade lessons are designed to have the kids extrapolate more from the lessons, and use imagination, read things into situations, and try to solve problems with incomplete information...ie things our kids struggle with. The good news is, it's not too late to get an IEP in place! If the school is resistant, go to the district. It is my understanding that without proper support at school, things start to get bad in 3rd grade, then get worse in 5th, and by 7th the kid is often so frustrated it takes major interventions to even stay afloat. He may have been doing fine when the subject first came up, but he isn't doing fine now, and he has a legal right to an IEP. If the school district doesn't want to deal with it or is ill equipped, he has a right to go to a private school that the school district is required to pay for. I'd start off super sweet and concerned, but if they give you a hard time, get an advocate and force the issue. It's not fun or pleasant to have to go to battle over this stuff but with some schools, it's what you have to do so your kid doesn't fall through the cracks.

I don't have much time so I'll be very brief:

2-3 hrs of homework is far too much. Your district or state may have a standard quideline. If so, hold the teacher to it. In our district it is 30 minutes and my daughter's 3rd grade teacher took that as law. Even without an IEP, any child who had worked well for 30 minutes could be signed out by the parent.

AS should be a qualifier for an IEP, on grade level or not. It is here in California. In that IEP you can demand the right to control the amount of homework with no adverse affect on grades. This is a common IEP item for AS kids, to reduce the workload, as well as to have unlimited time on testing.

doby,

It would be useful to list the kinds of accommodations that past teachers have made for your son, in order to jog your mind about the kinds of accommodations he will continue to need. Those will be a starting point for the things he will need now. As he moves up the grade levels, the work demands become more complex and difficult, not merely because of the complexity of the material, but also because of the social demands of the environment (both the peer situations and the departmentalization that will start before you know it), and the organizational issues.

Longer term projects aren't "harder" from the perspective of intellectual difficulty, but they are from an organizational perspective - this is a problem for many boys in elementary school, but for kids with Asperger's it can be a disaster. The burden should not fall to you, as the mother, to "get him through." School needs to work with him, on achievable, manageable goals, so that he can do the work in ways he can function. This will only happen if he has an IEP will clear individualized instruction on his areas needing support, and accommodations and modifications designed to allow him to learn and grow without being unreasonably frustrated. "Unreasonably frustrated" is different for different for different kids, and for many with Asperger's, it can look very different from what it would look like for NT kids. All that needs to be taken into account, quantified, and written down so that whatever teacher he has knows what is expected of him!

The IEP should state that your son is not to be penalized for mistakes that are not material to the subject matter being tested; e.g., spelling should not be counted if it is not a spelling test; if he has indicated the correct answer, that should be adequate even if it was not done in precisely the way requested. Alternative ways of indicating the correct answer can be a necessity for some of our kids, particularly if they have dysgraphia and can't write as much as teachers wish they would.

Obviously, I could go on for pages, but I won't. Good luck with your meeting - remember it is only the first step of a long process. Be firm and polite. But don't back down - your son needs you. Then get as educated about his rights as you can. When you know his rights, you will feel much more confident speaking to them, and that will help you get him what he needs!

Thanks so much for all of your feedback, support and very helpful information! I had heard about how third grade is often difficult for kids who were doing fine with the previous grades, and I hoped this would not happen for my son. The reason I haven't pressed for the IEP is that he's done so well up until now, and the school said he didn't need one, and they may have been right at that point. But this year and this teacher are different and it looks like now is the time. I have heard from other parents that she is known for a lot of homework. I am going to ask if there are homework guidelines for the district, as someone posted. There were some other things you all have said that I'm going to make notes of as well. My husband is going to this meeting too and he doesn't sugar coat things so hopefully that will be helpful. Thanks again!

I would just like to echo the thing about doing well up until 3rd grade, then starting to struggle after that. IEP is a very important tool to get accomodations for your child. The IEP process and schools in general are not perfect, but they can be helpful. I also agree that the schools will try to get away with doing the minimum amount of work possible, and that sometimes you must step up and drive the process on behalf of your child.

jat, I found your comments eparticularly insightful...thanks.

We had our conference today. As the homework is our biggest issue, the teacher is going to try to have my son do some of it in class. I don't know how well that is going to work. She says he has time when he finishes his other work but sits and draws pictures. They did say that homework should take about an hour and I'm going to start timing it. If it keeps being more than that, I will go back and complain some more.

As far as the IEP, I was told by the councelor that they have a team that is evaluating whether or not he needs to be tested, and then if he is tested and there is a large gap between his school work and his abilities, only then they would do an IEP despite him having a medical diagnosis of PDD-NOS (and poss. ADD). She also said that although she is not the one who decides that, she does not think he will qualify. She also said to me that if I was not helping him get through his homework, what kind of grades would he be getting then? Meaning that by my helping him with his work, he's getting better grades than he would otherwise and that may give them the wrong impression of how well he is performing! I can understand why they don't want to give IEP's to everyone, but then how can you say that someone with PDD-NOS and possibly ADD, who is struggling at home with his homework and getting half of his papers D's and some F's, that he is not being negatively impacted by his condition. The teacher and the one councelor were clueless as to what PDD-NOS was. I guess I can't expect a teacher to educate herself on this matter so lesson learned there. So it seems like it's probably going to be a big fight to get this IEP. Is this the process the rest of you had to go through to get the IEP?

Hi Doby,

If I were you I'd be concerned about the statement that "The teacher and the one councelor were clueless as to what PDD-NOS was." Federal law requires that the IEP evaluation be administered by a professional who speciallizes in your child's disability. If there is noone at your school who knows what PDD-NOS is, much less specializes in it, time to change schools.

There is an excellent introduction to the IEP process here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual ... on_Program

and here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_ed ... ted_States

Hope this helps, and I wish you the best.

If you can possibly afford it, you might want to consider having your son privately evaluated by an educational psychologist. Your school, and probably your district, is clueless, and therefore will do a terrible job of testing and evaluating him, and will come up with a horrible assessment and useless recommendations (or no recommendations at all). A good private evaluation will include an observation at school and input from teachers, and the report will offer recommendations for accommodations and modifications in order for your son to receive an appropriate education. You should find someone who routinely attends IEP meetings with their clients, so that s/he can present your "case" to the school, and they would have to address any objections or concerns to the professional who could answer them in their own jargon.

It is not up to your school to decide whether or not to assess your son. If you don't get a clear statement from them, within a reasonable time (2-3 days), in writing, about when your son will be evaluated, write a letter stating that you want your son evaluated for an IEP under IDEA. You should state that this constitutes your permission to evaluate, so that the time starts to run, and they cannot delay things. They will then be required to start the evaluation process, and if your letter is not adequate, they have to provide you with their form within something like ten days. Then they have something like 60 days to complete the evaluation process. This is a very long time, in a school year, but you need to get it started. If, once the evaluation is done, they say he doesn't need an IEP, don't let them blow you off - it isn't just up to them - it's up to the IEP team, and you are an equal member of that team. Moreover, if you are not satisfied with the evaluation report, you can request an Independent Educational Evaluation at the school district's expense. This further delays things, in terms of getting an IEP, but if the evaluation report isn't a good one, it is definitely worth the delay - you can't develop a good IEP if you don't have a good evaluation. The school district has to pay for the IEE or it has to file for due process. Don't let them jerk you around by telling you they will do something or might do something, and they just keep delaying. If it isn't in writing, it didn't happen. Keep notes on everything! When you have a conversation with someone from school about something they will do, write a confirming letter/email (if it's a letter, always keep a copy), so you have documentation about what was said. Do it in the guise of thanking them for taking the time to talk to you. Include an innocuous question so the person will get back to you - that way you have proof that they received the letter. If they respond without contradicting the basics of what you said, it is, in essence, agreement that your recitation was accurate.

I realize I'm getting ahead of things here, and I'm sorry if I'm overwhelming you. That was not my intent. For now, I would suggest that you write an email saying something like, "as we discussed, I am concerned about my son's educational issues and want to have him evaluated for an IEP under IDEA. I'd like to know when that evaluation will take place." If you don't get a prompt reply, write the letter I mentioned, asking for an evaluation to be performed, hand-deliver it to school, and bring a copy that you can have them sign or initial as your copy to show that they received the one you hand-delivered.

Keep all your papers and correspondence! You may never need it, but if you do, you'll be glad you have it.

Im a second year COLLEGE STUDENT, and even our instructors give us time to do our work in class, and we are not burdened with that much homework in a day!!That teacher needs to pull her head out of her rear and wake up.

My son is in the 5th grade and their homework is only math and whatever he didn't finish in class. He is actually on meds for ADD and it has done wonders for him (i know a lot of people may be against it, but it has worked for us). He isn't always in space anymore and getting the work done. Last year he had a horrible time with homework. he would be doing work for 4+ hours (with breaks). It wasn't the amount, but the fact that, in the 4th grade, they were still coloring crap. My son has never liked coloring. And then there's the repeating of writing words and cursive. He was mentally overwhelmed by all these things that it interfered with his homework getting donw and the anger and meltdowns it created. What was suggested to us was the resource room. If he had the time in class, he could go to the resource room to do his homework. It's more 1 on 1 than the regular class, so he would stay focused and ask questions if he got stuck. Unfortunately that didn't work out for us, but it is worth a shot if you get that IEP. Also, stuff they don't grade that he already knows or coloring or just busy work, you can suggest it to not be given if busy work is what takes him so long. Ask to have it put in his iep. It's not law, just a suggestion and they may honor it. Worth a shot.

As far as not qualifying...my son is at and above grade level and he still got one. Not only did they observe him one on one, they also evaluated him in a social setting (like on the playground or in groups with other kids). He did well academically, but did poorly with the listening test, (one i can think off the top of my head) and several other areas. They have no idea until they evaluate him. My son gets speech & language, help with his s's and z's (which oddly was never even mentioned or put on his first iep), help with understanding language, he gets social skills training with other kids with the same social difficulties and he gets to use the resource room if he needs it. He also gets in class accomodations and he's accomodated for statewide testing.

Btw, my son too did well and by the 3rd grade he was evaluated and dx'd with AS. They said he was very mild and even said they think he will pull out of it.

Read your rights and make sure you know them. They have to go by what is law and they will try to find loopholes for everything. We were lucky that we had a caring teacher and then a caring "team" who was more than happy to help our son. Also, i believe you can also request that those who come in contact with him be trained or educated in whatever disability that child has.

Good luck. I hope he gets to be evaluated and they come up with an IEP for him. He needs one!