So how would you handle this one?

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SS12's school choir concert was this past Thursday.

His behavior during the concert was unbelievable. He didn't appear to be singing the majority of the time, as his attention was focused on tormenting the kid standing in front of him- continunously poking him with his foot, snapping him in the back with this rubber bracelet. The kid kept moving up to try to get away from him, and SS just kept it up. By the time the concert was over, DH and I were so mad we could hardly see straight.

The other kid's mom immediately complained to the principal of the school (which I think she was perfectly justified to do) and the principal immediately pulled SS aside and gave him a stern talk. This was followed by DH and I giving him a stern talk. He lost that dumb rubber bracelet permanently, had to apologize to the kid and his choir teacher, and it grounded from electronic items.

He said he was doing it because the kid bugs him during CLASS. SO TAKE IT TO THE TEACHER DURING CLASS, SS. Don't try to get revenge in front of 300 people at the choir concert!

Best of all? Us usual, SS doesn't seem to particularly give a hang that he's grounded.

What to do about this kind of stuff??

It's all the same to him. You can't expect him to see the difference between revenge in class and revenge in public. Teach the difference, definitely, but that does not come at all naturally to AS kids, and you need to understand that.

Pretty much all other kids annoy my son at this point in his life. They don't have to do a thing except exist, it seems. We need to keep an open conversation about it with our kids and make sure they feel we've listened, before discussing what the better options are and ideas for coping. They can't spend their lives justifying everything by the fact that they feel annoyed. They need to learn how to avoid feeling annoyed and take responsibility for that feeling. When the pain is real, we'll help them figure a way to avoid experiencing it.

As for the concert ... was this something he wanted to do? Does he enjoy choir? Does he enjoy being on stage? Would he have sung happilly if a different child had been standing in front of him?

My son acts like he doesn't care when he's given up. Its a sign he feels he can't win, so the defensive response is to stop caring. I worry that this is what SS is doing; he doesn't really understand, and because he doesn't really understand he doesn't feel he can avoid similar consequences in the future, which leaves the only option emotional detachment from the situation.

I don't know, maybe he needs a physical outlet. I had to double check that your son was the instigator because it's usually the other way around. My AS son is shoved, threatened,pointed at,called ret*d,queer,ugly and stupid.

Thank you for the replies.

To answer questions:

Yes, SS has always really enjoyed choir. We've seen very nice performances out of him til now. I think part of what we may have to look at here is an increase in his ADHD med.. even though I am not a fan of having him on meds at all... it would seem they're still necessary for him in situations like this. And he has grown a LOT since this dosage was prescribed to him.

You know Aimless, I think that's one of the things that bugs us about this the most- that's usually SS too- he's small, he's 'odd' compared to the other kids- he gets picked on all the time. This kid that he was after was one of the few who was smaller, skinner, had glasses, and was more awkward-looking than him. Even with the Asperger's... it amazes me that he would seek to victimize a kid who's at even more of a disadvantage than him.

Boy, I know what that's like. Does his teacher(s) know about this? Often times if teachers are looking after a lot of kids, they don't pay close enough attention to notice things like that. You should make them aware of the bullying that is occuring, so that they can keep an eye out for it.

sparkler22 There have been times that my son has expressed a desire to do the same. I talk to him about how it only spreads the misery further. I don't know if it will come up again but it's something I would address immediately as you are doing.

gramirez He has an IEP with behavioral goals including sensory breaks which I can already tell he would rather die than use, because it will set him apart. No one has called to discuss the IEP with me. It was written by the elementary school he just graduated from. They put him in a life skills class to teach him how to fold laundry. He is making straight A's in his regular classes. I think they saw autism and made a huge assumption. They have taken him out of life skills because they could see on their own that he needed a bigger challenge. Maybe that's where all this started. I asked if he wanted me to talk to his teachers. I would like them to keep an eye on him. My son is quiet and shy and doesn't talk much. I know this is an old story . Anyway, I think in bullying situations it pays to look at the whole picture, including the provoker's motivation. They are often tormented at home.

Yeah it was naughty behaviour. I don't think over-reacting to this extent is really going to do absolutely ANYTHING about the problem though.

Growing up as an aspergers child, it was absolute hell to have to sing in things like choirs with parents breathing down your neck watching your every move. Does it really matter if he wasn't singing? I mean who wants to sing in those stupid things anyway. He could have at least pretended to sing I guess.

Grounding won't do anything unless he goes out on a regular basis. You're better off to remove something he likes like a video game or something.

Instead of kicking up a stink about it I would suggest getting him on some sort of better medication for ADHD as it really seems like the problem here.

Does this child bully him at all?

If I had a child who did that I would take him aside and tell him his behaviour is not acceptable, and then move onto something beneficial like taking him to a psychologist ASAP as opposed to fighting him in every way.

I think their concern was not that he wasn't singing but because he was tormenting the child in front of him.

Hale.

We don't feel we have overreacted. What SS needs to be learning/understanding at this stage in the game is what is and is not appropriate, since those instincts don't come naturally to him most of the time. This was most definitely not appropriate. He has been educated/corrected on these kinds of things before. Therefore, consequences are in order.

Again, SS LIKES choir. He chose to take choir, out of the myriad of electives that were available. Nobody is making him be there.

Again, he IS grounded from video games/computer/TV as a result of this. He still doesn't really seem to care. His attitude is pretty much "Oh well. I'll just read".

Again, he IS on ADHD medication. We're thinking it may need to be adjusted/upped since he has grown a lot lately.

I already covered the relationship between he and this child in an earlier post, as the above issues.

And SS already sees a psychologist who specializes in Asperger's/social issues already.

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Frankly you need to look at it from his perspective. Maybe its because I still I have very vivid memories of being "the odd one out" in school but I can certainly see why he did what he did. This kid whom you say is nerdier and more awkward than he is kicks him during class. Maybe he keeps on doing it or makes a snide remark this understandably makes your son angry. The teacher is probably busy while this is going on and wouldn't do much more than reprimand this other boy.

More importantly your son in his eyes would look like the a snitch and draw unwanted attention to himself. He can't retaliate in class because he'd get in trouble. Then you have this concert. Alot of noise, lights, dull vaguely moronic music (that used to be epidemic at my school concerts) and keep in mind he's probably been running what the kid did to him over in his head and getting more and more steamed. The boy is infront of him and he sees to opportunity to pay him back and he takes it.

Now he took it to an extreme from what you've said and the concert probably wasn't the best place to have it out with this boy. However to him it was the perfect time to do it. Firstly its during a time when he's stressed from both the concert and being angry at this boy and it gives him a channel for his anger. Secondly maybe he's trying to make friends or improve his social standing. Now he's obviously not trying to make friends with this boy but he might be showing off infront of the other kids in his choir group.

By putting this kid lower on the proverbial social rung he improves his own status. This might sound odd to you but the only way I found I improved my social standing at school was by fighting back and retaliating against that sort of behavior rather than taking it quietly or running to the teacher like a baby. His peers might have given him some praise or laughed at the antics afterwords. That sort of encouragement was unguent for me in school and gave me a bit more confidence.

I'm not saying your wrong to punish him or reprimand him for making a scene at the concert and embarrassing you (embarrassment sounds like the key to quite a bit of your anger) but keep in mind he's trying to make friends or at least get others off his back the only effective way he feels he has.

Even though you probably don't like what I've said just keep in mind I've been through what your son has and while we're obviously two completely different people we both have the same disorder and probably see the world in a few of the same strange ways. Just don't judge him too harshly. Acceptance into a group while almost completely unimportant to me now was very important to me then and I know how it feels to be an outcast.

Utherdoul- what you just said makes a great deal of sense, in the context of how SS likely thinks about things.

And.. embarrassed? Oh yes. Extremely.

I would be embarrassed as well I think. I'm glad that I was able to help you get an idea of what was probably going on in his head. I do hope you didn't take my wall of text as a critisism because it wasn't intended to be. Having dealt with my own parents I know how rough it can be to see an aspie perspective.

I know that for myself, "bad behaviour" is a kind of meltdown where I just think "I can't win here. No matter how hard I try, I still suffer because I'm not understood, so forget playing by your rules, the whole system is wrong". I remember vividly having these thoughts at a young age. Maybe not in those words, but that's the meaning of it.

I'm sure something caused SS's behaviour like that and it left him not caring about something he usually enjoys.