How do you disipline a child who has Asperger's?

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Some people also say that time outs are not a good thing to people who already got socialization problems (like aspies). My parents only spanked me 3 times as a child only when our behaviour was way out of line. It only happened if 1) we (me or my brothers) sware at my parents or at other members of the family (highly inappropriate, needs to be punished), and 2) when me and my brother decided to throw things out of the apartment window. lol we were just having some fun. But I didn´t keep any trauma.

Maybe you son jumping on the bed is just trying to have some fun. I remember jumping on my bed for fun too. Not listening to you might be related to aspergers IMO, some autistics (like ADHD) are unresponsive and will not listen to what you say and keep focused on what they are doing. He might not understand that you feel angry at him when he jumps on the bed, and also has difficulties generalizing the experience (he does everything again).

I don´t know what to do I thought of grounding him or not letting him play videogame. I don´t know just thoughts...

Sometimes repetitive behaviors like that are because they are trying to accomplish something such as self regulation, excess energy etc. For my son he is really compliant if he first: agree's, or second: he doesn't "need" the behavior.

Have you tried getting him a trampoline? The have little ones with handles for him to hold on to. Maybe it's not defiance, it's just that they have no other option to do what they need to do.

As far as your discipline question. I use token economies to teach appropriate behavior. Once I am SURE he understands, then I take away something very important. He has to behave to get it back. I also during this process praise behavior I like to see and tell him why I like it. Negative reinforcement is often necessary, especially for behaviors that have safety concerns, but I try to give more positive than negative.

Also, some things kids will grow out of. You have to decide whether the battle is worth fighting. Kids grow and mature. These kids can take longer. Give it time.

yes my son does this also repetitive things to release stress jumping is common. defiance , you dont love me is more complex, when my son doesnt get enough one on one time and mental stimulation this happens. Also with too much screen time T.V affects kids behavior. So yes there is manipulation thats what kids do to get their needs met they are basically helpless thats why they have parents. We are here to guide them and problem solve not hit and abuse them but firm and consistent consequence is important especially for AS kids . I am far from a perfect parent I made all the mistakes to figure this out but I go through a process first explain in detail saying no doesnt tell him waht he should be doing. Then if it doesnt work ask why? why are you doing this why wont you stop ? I have been very suprised at how this breaks the loop in his head and by his responses. And third self imposed limits on repetition you can do this 3 times then stop yourself so he gets it out but uses self control to stop. I hope this helps in fact I would love to hear from anyone who tries this to see if it works for others. PM me if you like.

What is interesting to me is that the situation and questions in the original post sound more like how things go with my NT (we think, anyway) daughter than my AS son.

Overall, my AS son is really good about listening to us IF he understands the logic for the rule. Everything with him has always been two-sided: provide the consequence (time out) AND discuss the reaon for the rule (later, in calm time) in detail. Oh he loves to challange the reasons, but once you've made it past every argument, he'll be fully on board.

What that has never worked with, however, when it comes to my AS son are stims. Basically, what we've discovered are actual needs, and not behavior problems. He can't sit still, he MUST touch everything around him, he MUST pace, and so on. When I first read "jumping" that is what sprung to mind - he may have more than a strong compulsion to so this, and you should consider that. Find a place he CAN jump and channel him to that place, as part of trying to enforce the rule about your bed. I think I noted in another thread, we still live in what is a child-proofed home in many ways. Breakables are high and out of reach. Lamps are fixed to walls. Shelves are bolted down. And so on. My son simply cannot NOT fiddle with everything in house, and life isn't worth the grief with that stuff. I would put the dinner time razzing into that category - forget about it, just make sure he knows that he may not do that in public (my son can hold in certain behaviors for a short time, but he needs home to be free).

The upset part, however, is 100% my daughter. She takes every correction personally, and that is more a matter of personality than AS. It definitely makes your job more difficult, and I've never really solved it with my daughter. I've just come to accept that I can't change the way we do things in this house simply because her feelings are hurt so easily. I try really hard with her, and I work double at communication, positive enforcement, and so on ... but she still breaks down so easy, it is frightening. It puts me in "pick your battles mode" just like the stims do; I allow much that I might not otherwise, and I do think she plays it, but I also think she needs to have those "wins" in order to keep her head together ... sigh. Really complicated little girl, she is.

ANYWAY, a bit of a ramble but sometimes just hearing the experiences of others helps you sort through your own unique situation a little better.

People are animals, and so are subject to the same types of classical conditioning that works with animals. They seek pleasure, and avoid pain. Never make the mistake of only providing punitive measures. The kid jumps on your bed because it's fun. Give him something more fun to do. Next time he jumps on your bed, offer him a piece of candy if he'll stop. Offer to read to him, play with him, just don't make ever encounter he has with you negative or he'll hate you for life.

I don't believe in hitting kids. I have never hit mine, no matter how "naughty" he is. But he really doesn't know any better.

My 5y son has these fits and goes into an uncontrolable state where he screams and kicks things around and will refuse any disciplanary action like staying in his room to cool off or apologising. It will happen if for instance I end his computer game when he refuses to. He'll scream for several minutes and he can scream very loud! He can scream till I can't take it no more and he will not tire off. When he was younger a little spanking would make him snap out of it but that doesn't work any more because he's so defiant that it will get him even more deranged. The only thing that get's him off this like-seisure will be to win in the end, so because going back to the computer is not an option he will go all the distance to get me and his mother to freak out screaming and arguing at each other.

I think spanking is not an option specially when they start to have some understanding about self esteem. What seems to work best is to have an eye to eye conversation while holding both his hands. This will work in most cases. On the other hand he goes to behavior therapy which helps.

This is a hard topic. My husband and I both feel equipped to discipline our other 3 children, but our 7 year old aspie is a totally different story. We have been consistent and yet she still does the same behavior over and over and over again. Some of them are stims (chewing hair, etc and I'm learning to let those slide), but she's been getting in trouble at school for hitting students (and even hit a teacher, which got her suspended). She is a wuss....but it's totally inappropriate and she knows it's wrong....but it's like she can't control it. When this happens, we've had her go to her room for the rest of the day. I hate isolating her, but I have no other ideas on what to do. She seems very motivated by attention. We are trying to give her positive attention, but she still reverts to the negative attention often. It's a really tough thing for us right now.

We used to spank her but have realized that with her, it makes things 10 times worse. We do still employ spanking with our 4 year old, but it's extremely rare. Not sure where else to go with her, though.

How long has he been jumping on the bed before you decided to call it quits? Or has he been jumping on it without you even knowing and then you caught him?


Aspie kids can get into rituals and then it's hard for them to not do it anymore when you try and stop them. I had that issue and it was real hard for my parents to get me to stop doing things. So whenever I start a new thing, they had to stop me right away and not let me do it or else I'd keep on doing it. I get fixated and get stuck doing something.

I also jumped on my parents bed and so did my brothers and it was hard for all of us to stop. My dad was never strong to force punishments so we were good breaking that rule. My mom was tough and firm. My dad was laid back and easy going.

My mom had to keep punishing me for things I do and then after a while I stopped. This was before my DX of course.
I think it takes a while to get an aspie to listen speaking from my experiance.


Spankings, that can backfire because it can teach the aspie, when people don't listen to you, you hit them. When people piss you of, you hit them. That's what I learned from my mother so I was always hitting my bothers and my friends but not in school because hitting wasn't allowed there. I took it too literal because most kids know they are not supposed to spank other kids and only their parents can. I even treated my own bothers like my kids because I copied my mother and then they decided "enough" and quit listening to me and my mom told me it's the parent's job not mine, same as spanking and kids can't do that to other kids. My parents had to be very careful what they told me and what they do around me or else I could learn the wrong things. I had no concept of age difference and different rules for each age group so if my parents allowed my two year old brother do something and not make a big deal about it, I would have done it too thinking it was okay to do but that be if I was interested in what he did. I remember how confusing it was then not knowing what the rules were and not knowing someone had different rules than me and telling me "He is two yeas old" or "he is three years old" was no help because it didn't explain anything. As I got older my mom was able to be more specific by telling me I was too old to do X so I thought "Three year old behavior" and "nine year old behavior." I was ten when I finally quit copying younger kids and only copied kids my own age or older. But I had no concept of what was right or wrong. By then I was aware I had that issue but didn't know what to do about it.

Afternoon from the UK......I must say I have been fairly shocked reading this thread.......condoning smacking, the use of belts? Yes ok this maybe was years ago....but in my opinion it is WRONG to threaten a child with any kind of violence or physical discipline.....even a smack....no.

For any child the stick doesn't work but the carrot always does. To hit a child, especially one on the spectrum is abusive and will achieve nothing in my opinion except the wrong example and resentment.

For a child on the Autism Spectrum (I try not to differentiate as every child even those with a Dx of Aspergers every one is different). Sometimes it could be volcanic layers of emotion building and building in their amygdyla ...until it bursts so they have a meltdown...or maybe it is sensory overwhelm that is irritating them but of course they can't realise that. Children wherever they be on the spectrum tend to have short memories and forget ......of course some of them (including my son ) do have what I call selective hearing sometimes!

It is normally the LAST thing to happen to a child that triggers them into a meltdown...we easily forget the hundred and one other things that have contributed. Frustration and anxiety are huge triggers for this, as is change of routine or system. Nothing confuses or upsets a child on the spectrum more than a sudden alteration of their day sometimes without warning......groan! So when they kick off we shouldn't be surprised.

There is another thread on the board you may be interested in?
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt74139.html

Irritating behaviour such as constantly doing something ie talking about bodily functions, jumping on the bed, passing wind or anything like that has to be talked through.....how it looks to OTHER people and WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES.......don't expect them to understand and do it first time, it needs GENTLE repetative reminders. The sensation of jumping and springing on the bed is pleasurable to him, I guess you have done the tramploline thing? But that is the place to bounce!! Just like the sofa is for sitting on and the table is for eating at.....explain that a bed is for sleeping......it's not good getting angry, he will shut down.........be gentle........listening when he is fully aroused and bouncing is not a great time to explain...leave it until you are a bit calmer....distract him with something else he likes!

Timetables are brilliant for these kids, let them know what is going on, what is expected of them and give them HEAPS OF PRAISE for even the slightest little thing they do well......it could be simple such as picking up a pair of socks off the floor.....WELL DONE and a big smile will be appreciated and it will teach them that actually do a bit more and get more praise.....kids are like puppy dogs, eager to please but a bit overwhelming and inappopriate sometimes.......never punish them....they didn't mean it......honestly.

Just go easy, relax and stay calm, the more you fuss the more he will do it, getting heaps of attention isn't he and he really does know what button to push to upset you........don't let him see you getting upset, just matter of fact! Take the word DISCIPLINE away, and replace it with TEACHING.....gently.......my son spins out when he gets into trouble at school and gets a detention.....the word detention is scary....the special needs coordinator calls it now a jelibean chat, far kinder and HE LISTENS!! !

Good luck.
www.jelibean.com
PS, Jelibean are delighted to announce Prof Tony Attwood is our patron.....watch this space!!

i'm just going to add that, having raised two kids (one of whom was very, very hard to raise) and working 5 years in 5 group homes (concurrently), i know a bit about the subject.

one thing i found useful as hell: created an environment that, as much as possible, makes it easy for someone to do what you'd like and hard for them to do otherwise.

for example, you don't want your bed jumped on? lock the door. end of problem.

you don't want something blown on the table? remove the item. if it's part of the childs meal, same thing. remove it.

what is good about this? several things. first, it reduces the frustration and anger on both sides. second, it lessens the repetition of a bad pattern (you say no, he does it, you say no, he does it, etc). that's critical, because the more a pattern's repeated, the stronger it gets -- on *both* sides.

third, some things can't be dealt with this way. but they are fewer. since you won't be after your child about 50 things but merely 3 (i'm making up the numbers, obviously) he's far more likely to actually listen. even if not, it's much easier to stay on top of things.

last: you may have to put aside what you're doing at first sometimes and discreetly watch to see when he begins to do what you don't want. then: step in immediately and stop it. no need for yelling or hitting or tears (tho he may cry). it's just no, and give him another activity to do instead.

important: an activity he wants to do, otherwise it's not very effective is it? also keep in mind: all people need activities. all. and they will be doing *something* pretty much all the time. otherwise extreme boredom arises, which is actually a painful condition, one people go to great and foolish lengths to alleviate. it's serious. i see many people who just expect a child to do...nothing much at all for long periods.

ain't gonna happen. it's not how humans are. so be sure you child has things to occupy him, things that won't drive you nutz and that he enjoys and can get absorbed in.

That's the smartest thing I've read in this entire thread!

I would've posted the same thing, but I was afraid to, because I'm not a parent.

Alright this has become a wonderful discussion, and there's been lots of great advice from parents and non-parents alike.

I want to clear some things up, regarding my original post -

1) jumping on the bed was only an example. He does do it, and often, but it was used as an example of minor behaviours that are mostly irritating and sometimes destructive. There are about a thousand of these little behaviours, I couldn't get into them all.

2) He jumps on the bed for fun. Same reason he blows raspberries all the time. I recently had a baby, who learned to blow raspberries. Gramma and I thought it was cute, and laughed when he did it. My 7 yr old then decided that he would also be thought of as 'cute' if he did it too. So now we're faced with him going into guests faces and spitting on them. Then laughing wildly and waiting for the praise. As well as at the table in restaurants etc. Trust me, it's not that ignorable.

3) It's embarrassing but I'll be frank. I live in a 1 bedroom apt with my 2 kids. I've given Evan (7) the only bedroom. MY bed is in the livingroom. There's no door to lock (oh what I'd give for a room of my own!!). The baby and I share a bed. I've given Evan everything I have, and the only bedroom is just one of many sacrifices I've made for the child. In fact, when I moved in I couldn't afford a bed, so for the first six months of my pregnancy I slept on towels on the floor. I was finally given a bed by the St. Vincent De Paul society, after waiting for 7 months.
This is why my bed is precious to me. I really don't want to be on the floor again.

4) He doesn't jump up and down. He starts at the far end of the livingroom and takes a running dive. Often when the baby is laying on the bed. He considers this "playing". I consider it dangerous.

-Time outs have been used, unfailingly he forgets why he's on time out. Or forgets he's in time out and goes off playing.
-As I've said before, hitting isn't an option.
-I've tried using logic and explaining to him why I don't want him to do it. He professes to understand and stops for a day... Until he forgets a few hours or a day later and is back at it.

I'm not sure if he just doesn't give a damn, or if he's truly 'forgetting' and in ignorance about how I view it.

I had a child and I love my child, but I was not an extremely patient person before I became a mom. I use every ounce of strength I have some days and every 'calming' technique I've ever read to keep my cool with my son. I'm Jamaican, and trust, my Jamaican friends think I'm ridiculous for going through all this. They're of the "you're too soft, just beat him" school.

I just feel like he's being so unfair, after all I do for him, can't he TRY to co-operate?

Wow, that sounds just like my 4 year old. I came up with the same solution, and I guess it's worked, cause we don't really have that problem anymore... though I'm sure things will change when he gets older and has a better sense of self.

I'm completely new to this forum, and reading first hand experiences with people who have ASD or AS, has helped me a lot, to better relate to my little guy. Thank you guys, so much, for helping me to better understand my son.

I would suggest the problem is impulse control. At that precise moment when the desire creeps up, everything else flies out of his mind. What you need is something that slows him down or otherwise reminds him. A screen in the way, a piece of furniture, a curtain ... be creative. Eventually he'll old enough to control the impulse. At 7, its hard.

On monday my just turned 5yo son was seen by an experienced child psychiatrist for 1st time. He's been having behavior therapy since 3 years old with suspected ADD and possible AS. It was a preliminary examination (lasted 90 minutes) with no dx for now and the physician incited some family interaction. He told us something that made perfect sense to me: our son is different and he feels different from other kids. He has an above avarage intelligence and is more self conscious than most children his age, so he feels that if he's not like his fellow kids then he's an adult (or prefers to be). That's one reason why he doesn't relate to his peers (and vice-versa) and why he's so defiant to adults. When we want him to obey we usually try to reason with him or explain our judgment. The psychiatrist said this is acceptable for most children but for him it is very wrong. Because he feels he can get he's way by reasoning or negociating back, and when not successful at least provoke quarrel. So we have to make him realize that we demand for the sole reason that there is a natural hierarchy and he is on the bottom side. The adult doesn't have to justify his decison, explain it or even be fair... Though this may seem harsh it is a way for him to get used to the idea that he's a child and we're adults, which is pretty obvious for most kids. So if I say "sit next to me" and he say's "no, I'll sit next to mom", what I'd usually think is "ok, as long as you're sitting". Very bad message! He's had he's way, even if I think I got mine. So if for anyone out of context there may be no sense in this dispute, for me and him it's a confrontation to see who rules and I have to get him to sit on my first option with no conceding or yielding. Otherwise next time he will again try to argue or defy.

The psychiatrist said that there is no point trying to ground him in ways you can't carry through, like sending him to he's room when he doesn't comply. So he had us tell him to sit up on the chair next to us, which he refused because he understood the contest (when we asked the physician if it would be confusing for our son to understand the point, he said very bluntly "why do you treat him as if he were stupid? He is not stupid!"). Then we were instructed to tell him that he was grounded on that chair for 5 seconds! It took about 5 minutes to get him to obey while going through a tantrum and we seemed hopeless to convince him. One aspect the psychiatrist pointed out is that me and my wife would take turns in the process of demanding he's attention or obedience when we have to be very sincronised: if I give an order the other adult or adults (all close family must be instructed) have to instantly take part and show that they backup the adult team and he's in the kids team. It is not enough to turn backs and let one of the adults resolve because he will feel that there is not unanimity. And it is absolutely forbidden for any adult to take he's side. This is a major turnback and an enormous thrill for him. These thrills (and the difficulty to relate with his peers) keep him coming back to the adult playground.

Every child is a different case. For our child we were instructed: no yielding, never! Only ask once. Don't negociate or make threats. He must be aware that he cannot defy you to the last instance trying to see how far you'll allow. NO! Doesn't obey at first demand equals consequence! "-Little friend, no computer for you today!", "after dinner your sister's getting a sweet and you'll have to wait til tomorrow", etc. After a few times he'll think twice before resisting. In public, even if there's a scene, he never wins (obviously try not to provoke the situation, but when it happens never concede. He would see it as a possibility next time). And don't forget: the other adults (pay attention grannies) must clearly take part in reinforcing the demand. The fact that he loses unanimously is a very hard punishment already, do not try to showcase him as a bad example, ridicule him or brag your authority. He must understand that it is not a war of egos but just a natural fact that adults rule and children obey, and he'll have to wait for his turn to be in the adult club. I asked the physician if this wouldn't bring resentment and he said that would only be the case if he did not have the intelligence to rectify his behavior, which he clearly does. We're gonna take away the fun he has being around adults so playing with his fellow children will seem more attractive to him and he can try to adjust socially.

In April he'll have his next examination with reports from school, therapist and us. We hope the new guidelines will improve his behavior and social skills. We do not know if he'll get AS dx in the end but the physician was clear about one point: it is not good to cut slack. We have to act quick and tough because if he doesn't gain social skills on his own we'll have to teach him or he's gonna feel misfitted and miserable, and if being nice doesn't work for him then discipline is the answer. You can choose to be the referee on the field trying to excuse and protect him (but you can't always be there for him), or you can be the coach nagging and sending him back into the fight ring till he can grasp the whole picture and build competent social and professional skills through routine, experience and awareness.