2+E and at the end of my rope

Post Reply New Topic

I've been doing everything I possibly can to get my kids the services and challenges they need at school. Eldest son is disruptive and gets the most because they have to cope with him. My other two are just ignored, and no matter how nice I am or hard I work for them, it doesn't seem to matter a bit. I've done all kinds of research and know the our state laws. I've followed all the best advice about being nice, and proactive and willing to compromise.

All three of my kids are gifted. Eldest is fairly ordinary gifted, but then he's an Aspie/ADHD/Bi-Polar/Probably Schizophrenic in some form. Middle son is an Aspie with ADHD and a hefty IQ who is grossly underperforming in school relative to his abilities mostly because they have him in a very chaotic regular classroom and it's really hard for him to cope with all that sensory stuff. Little guy is prodigiously capable academically and does calculus for giggles. His teacher this year intentionally made things as hard as she could for him. She forced him to read books 6-8 grade levels below his tested level while saying that was his correct "instructional reading level" despite sending home paperwork saying otherwise. She agreed, at the Principal's insistance to let him have a box of advanced materials he could study once he demonstrated mastery of her lessons. No matter how well he demonstrated mastery she never let him use the materials. I've had meeting after meeting and nothing but empty promises.

The head of our county's gifted department took 9 months to return my phone calls on the topic (and I did wait reasonable amounts of time between calls, just one or two calls a week, or less sometimes) and then all she did was agree we needed to talk. I've made reasonable and patient attempts to schedule that discussion, and have had no results. I've offered to buy the materials my son needs, researched programs that are compliant with our state laws...I just don't know what else there is for me to do.

I have to work so can't pull him out to homeschool. I can't afford to send him to private school and the good one locally would give him a scholarship if they A. Had room at the grade level they would put him in, B. Had a scholarship available. We are probably going to have to put Eldest into an inpatient program which will leave us with a copay of $100 a day, minimum, which might as well be a million dollars as we'd be just as likely to come up with either amount. (and that's the reasonable priced place that takes our insurance).

I don't know if I'm just blowing steam, looking for sympathy or asking for help.

Have you tried calling your local representative? What about your local news organizations?

Can the advanced child work on materials away from school like in work books? You can get them from almost any department store. That might help in his case.

Next, I realize you know your state laws, but how about programs? Have you checked with your state's autism society for other alternatives? Are you in Arizona? Noting the "Phoenix" in your profile.

They don't care about a couple super smart kids. What I find is that people have a lot of misguided jealousy about smart kids. Everybody wants their kids to be smarter than everybody else's kids and have no idea what that actually means in terms of what those kids would need and what it would take to meet those needs. It's next to impossible to find someone who actually cares. The best I can find is polite disinterest.

Thanks for the concerns guys. I know you mean well.

Department store workbooks the opposite of what my children need. They are designed for children who need more simplified and repetitive work to be able to grasp and retain basic concepts. I do have hiqh quality materials that my children use. That does not get them through the six plus hours a day they are forced to slog through inappropriate work at school. When kids who are more than the regular level of gifted are forced to do oversimplified and repetitive work it is detrimental to their mental health, and my kids are feeling the pain. By the time they get home from school they are so exhausted, frustrated and ready to explode from bordom that about all we can do is eat, slog through some more mind bendingly boring worksheets sent home as "homework" that they are required to fill out, and then go to bed.

Yes, I know about our states programs. There isn't much. The one program that is about six hours away is being shut down due to lack of funding.

I don't know why there is a Phoenix in my profile, though I do feel my life is in ashes lately. Let's hope something nice comes of it.

You could find ways to incorporate your child's level of mental exertion into the tedious school activities.

Have him work on making connections between class work and stuff he knows about as per his interests outside of school. "Hey, this worksheet sort of reminds me of Stephens Hawkings theory......" The teacher can't complain if he does her work, pays attention to it, and somehow ends up knowing more about it than she did.

Challenge your child by getting him a stop watch and finding what his "fastest time" is to accomplish pedantic or too easy tasks. He can then reward himself by turning the work in and going onto some much more interesting extra credit activities.

See if your child can sit back, say nothing, and mentally create comparisons between teachers class management system and totalitarian regimes of the 19th century.

Discuss with your child ingenious methods for concealing suduko, crosswords, comic books, or whaterver to help them get through the school day with some mental stimulation when needed.

Some schools are really tough on the smart kids. Many of the kids will lose focus and do poorly because they are bored (and eventually angry). If at all possible, see if there is a staff member at the school with whom your child gets along. Schools do have lots of people who just love smart children. See if your kids can find at least one person with an office who will let them "chill" from time to time.

This school year will soon be at an end. Hopefully next years teacher will be better.

And I was considering workbooks that are far past what he is doing. Closer to what challenges him. Actually, if you go to Barne's and Noble or other such mainstream book stores, they may have access to more advanced stuff that you could use for summertime. I realized the workbooks at any level wouldn't be of any help in class. But now that summer is here, and perhaps in his off time, you know? Just thoughts. If any of them work for you in any way, then they are worth mention. You are in our thoughts. I have an 8 year old son with Asperger's and he hates boredom to a point of getting into lots of trouble if I'm not careful. Now I need to constantly find challenges for him over the summer. Challenges I can afford.

In what grades are the kids you are most concerned about? I am wondering because it sounds as though the youngest is doing lots of worksheets. I assosciate worksheets with grade 2 or younger, but you say they give him worksheets 6-8 grades below level, so he is probably in middle school?

I don't have a very high opinion of a middle school teacher who assigns lots of worksheets. Just my opinion, I obviously don't know anything about the teacher, school, class situation etc.

Sometimes if a teacher is relying heavily on worksheets it is because the teacher has issues and isn't performing at his/her tops. I can think of several collegues who used worksheets as a means to survive following the death of a family member. I can also think of collegues who were just increadibly poor teachers and used worksheets because they had no classroom management and poor lesson planning skills.

I hope you get a better teacher next year.

I really don't have any solid ideas, but here's a few brainstorms; maybe something hits, maybe not.

1) Get the kids (as needed) scheduled into independent study at school. Make that the IEP item, and interview teachers / insist on moving the child until it happens.

2) Transfer to a different public school, Interview the candidates. All public schools, and all teachers, are not created equally. See if you can find the one that will meet your needs.

3) Find a good school anywhere and move towards it.

4) Find a local homeschooling family that you feel does a good job and ask to share the home school responsibility (perhaps you take on all materials, weekend field trips, etc).

5) Since chaotic classrooms seem to be at least half the problem for one of your kids, research which teachers are more orderly and request those classes.

Schools don't have to get your children performing at their absolute best capacity; that is not what they do. They try to get kids to meet a set of standards, and if those are met, and there are no other behavior issues they are allowed to stop worrying about that child. It's the reality of what they can get to in a busy and compressed world. Do you have to settle for that for your child? Of course not. But YOU have to make the difference, and give the school the resources they need to bridge the gap. Find teachers willing to cooperate, and get your kids in those classes, and then you do the work and pay the extra costs. Maybe it's possible, maybe it's not, but it is always worth a try.

I am sorry to hear your oldest is likely to need hospitalization. I sincerely hope things can work out for him.

Hopefully this won't sound presumptuous, but I understand what you're going through now...I wish I had better advice, but my family went the homeschool/private school route for most of my education. I'm so sorry about your eldest son... it can't be easy to put him in an inpatient program. I hope it helps him. I truly wish you the best...please keep us posted.

Does the Americans with Disabilities Act apply here? In teacher training etc., gifted education is treated as a type of special education, and the same arguments for equal education for kids with learning disabilities also apply to gifted kids. If it applies, you have a legal right to what you're asking for, and perhaps that'll give you leverage with the school. Also, what organizations for gifted kids or their parents are in the area? These are people who have likely fought similar battles, so they might be able to work with you or just give you ideas for dealing with the school. AFAIK your experience with the school and people's attitudes towards gifted kids is pretty typical, so in response to that, parents of gifted kids tend to be some of the most generous people out there. Changing schools or even school districts might help, too...not necessarily to a more expensive or prestigious one, but one with a different culture (less "egalitarian" or more flexible with parents. Some schools are just downright hostile to all parents who want something, not just parents of gifted kids).

"Have him work on making connections between class work and stuff he knows about as per his interests outside of school. "Hey, this worksheet sort of reminds me of Stephens Hawkings theory......""
I was in the same position at one point as the OP's kids, and I actually tried using this strategy. Have you ever tried it? Imagine, as an adult, having to read Hop on Pop by Dr. Seuss and draw connections from it about existentialism or quantum mechanics. Seriously, try it--that's what you're asking these kids to do. It takes a monumental amount of mental effort for very little payoff, and if you add ADHD to the mix, the sort of focus required to squeeze blood from a stone like that is almost impossible. It didn't work for me or for any other highly gifted teenager I've met (and having attended a school for gifted students at one point, I've known several). I know this was a well-meaning suggestion, and it works if you're doing assignments 1-2 grade levels apart, or surface worksheets instead of an in-depth research assignment within the same grade level. But it does NOT work when you're dealing with worksheets 6-8 grade levels below what you should be learning. I'm sorry, it just doesn't.

Your first mistake is thinking that the school is actually going to provide a good education. Yes, I know that sounds harsh, but it is unfortunately true. Schools do an absolutely horrible job with everybody's education. It isn't just the gifted people, or the autistic people, or the emotionally troubled people. They screw up EVERYBODY'S education. And it isn't just public schools. I went to private schools, and they use the same totalitarian based 'memorize what I say and don't think' teaching style just like public schools.

Once you have realized that your child will never get a good education no matter what school, program, or teacher you send them to, it makes things much easier. Because then school doesn't actually become a place where you go to learn, it just becomes a place where your child gets free daycare while you go out to work. I realized this early on in my education, and as such I rarely if ever actually paid attention in school. I spent 90% of my day daydreaming, and figuring out stuff in my head because I never felt the need to actually learn any of the crap that was being taught.

So, tell your children to zone out, ignore the teacher, and just entertain themselves in their head. They may miss out and not learn about ancient aztec civilizations, but really, is the dates of the mayan empire that important? Your child's sanity is far more important then any of the pointless facts that they teach in school.

Thats quite a broad brush your using Tracker.
The pre-school my boy goes to is hopeless with him, they know nothing about his Autism and don't really accommodate it, however my daughters normal govt run school is excellent. Mainly it depends on the teacher. Her teacher is an old hand and amazing, she knew about her Dyspraxia and was able to accommodate her style of learning within the classroom.
For example she would give all the kids three instructions, but knowing Hannah would get lost and distracted after one if lucky would give Hannah one instruction then ask her to come back when she had done it. Under this teachers tutelage in 18 months (another good innovation they have yr 3 & 4 in the same class and they stay with the same teacher 2yrs) my daughter has gone from 'learning disabled' to 'gifted' and excelling. I see some teachers trying to make kids learn by just ramming it down their throats and that will of course never work with our ASD kids.
I tried it myself before I knew better!
But the whole school as a whole is really impressive, when I pop into the classrooms and see what the kids are learning and writing and reading about, and doing, I am really impressed compared to what we had/did as kids, they are teaching the kids to do diverse and interesting things and to really think and learn.

Perhaps I am overgeneralizing my own poor education and assuming the worst. That is always possible. But my experience with the education system, and the general consensus of most who have gone through it, is that the system is horribly managed, and doesn't provide much in the way of a useful education. The school your children go to may be better run then the system I had to go through and I do hope that is the case.

I am just trying to say that expecting a good education from school is a bit optimistic. The best thing a child can do for their future is teach themselves, and just endure the time spent in school until they have the option to get into better courses that actually teach useful information.

"Ignore the teacher and just zone out?" Really? I'm sorry, but I disagree and that could be advice that starts spreading to other places in that child's life. You don't teach your kids to willfully ignore their elders. Sorry, but you just don't. Relations with school are already tedious at best and encouraging bad behavior will only make matters worse and increase stigma in school for the rest of the kids in need.

I'm sorry to say that Tracker is right. I went to private schools as well, and they weren't a whole lot better. Then again, if I'd had Concerta back then I might have had a better time of it.

The problem is that what my kids are going though isn't just expensive (through my taxes) day-care that is basically neutral, but that they are being harmed by what goes on all day. Middle son zones out and gets by, so it's not as bad for him. He still gets straight A's and is in the gifted program, mind, but he spends most of his time in sensory overload with his mind off. He's very sensitive to noise and the regular classroom is torture for him. He could handle the slow paced academics by just thinking his own thoughts. He's got a good solid 140/depending on which subsets you use to calculate or so IQ, nicely gifted but still fairly "normal."

Little guy is wired differently. He is measurably harmed by the vast amount of repetitive work. At a certain threshold gifted kids get to where they can't cope with regular classwork, and it varies from kid to kid just like anything. In academic ability Little Guy hits the numbers they use for the "profoundly gifted" catagory, but on some kinds of tests he's pretty "normal." His behavior and needs more accurately mirror those for the profoundly gifted, which is what matters more than numbers anyway. Percentile-wise on the WIAT-II he's coming out in the 99.9-99.7 percentile for he bulk of subsets (with a weird 87percentile on word aquisition) when tested out of level as appropriate for highly-profoundly gifted children. Profoundly gifted is as different from gifted as gifted is from challenged. It's not better, it's just really different.

Maybe next year I'll just let him stay home every time he has a stomache ache. He has medical condition that causes a lot of stomach pain. I'd been making him go anyway because he can be in pain at home or school, but maybe it's time to let the teachers just figure it out. He could go to school a couple days a week and still get all A's. How I'm going to earn a living, I don't know.

My kids might be better off doing this though. They are very polite and would never be rude or defiant to the teacher. They wouldn't be disrupting the class, just living in their own little thought worlds and making the best of a bad situation. Middle son does that anyway, he can't help it, sensory overload.

I agree, though. It's wrong. The whole situation is wrong. Kids shouldn't have to shut off their minds to cope with school. Teachers shouldn't have two or three times the number of children then can possibly cope with in the classroom. The USA should not be spending more money on education than any nation in the world with results lagging behind even most third world nation (13th from the bottom worldwide the last time I checked the WHO stats).

Kids with learning disabilities shouldn't be stigmatized. Kids with learning abilities shouldn't be stigmatized either. Everybody should be given a chance to be their best and appreciated as they are. That doesn't happen in our schools, even the good ones.

It is very very wrong.