Perplexed NT daughter requests opinions

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I'm a NT of an undiagnosed Aspie mother. Could someone who understands Asperger's comment on the following. While I was growing up I longed for pretty (feminine) fashionable clothes. My mother saw no use for them and dressed her kids in odd geeky things. A family member was tangentially associated with a company that made army- navy like clothes. They were the antithesis of what I wanted, yet for years she insisted her children wear this company's coats. They were the kind of coat you would expect to see in an army navy store--grayish drab green-rough material-zipper-boxy- Not at all what you would expect a little girl to want or to look good in. I look absurd in my childhood pics. Incidently, my parents could easily have afforded to buy her children nice clothes. My mother spent tons on her string of intense hobbies. Money was not an issue. Now I am an adult, self supporting and I buy my own clothes. I choose what I think are fashionable, pretty , that work for me and that are appropriate for the various things I do. Every so often my mother asks if I would like a specific item from that same company and I decline. She is not inclined to buy gifts at all, and she does not offer other things. When I decline she usually says something like "Oh yeah you hate Xcompany". sometimes she implies that my declining is a hostile act towards the family member with connections to the company. I thank her for her offer and tell her that I don't hate the company but I do not wear the style of clothes that they make therefore I do not want the item. She has heard that repeatedly from me; she has no memory difficulties. Now this is the part I don't understand although it has happened before. A couple of months ago we all went out to eat. As we were leaving ,she said she had something for me. She handed me a bag presumably a present as we pulled away. I thanked her. I opened it when I got home. It was a sweater from that company. She called a while later and asked how I liked the present. I paused for a second to collect my thoughts --at which point she immediately jumped in and said "you don;t like it do you because it is from Xcompany". When I shop for a gift I try to consider what the other person would like-even when that person has taste very different from my own. I can't imagine giving someone something that they have expressed a dislike for. Anyone have any ideas about this? It seems to be a deeper issue than fashion or gifts because this kind of thing happens with other things-like she insists family come for dinner for various occasions then makes things she knows her grandkids don't like and makes the meals very formal given the age of the kids. or she invites the grandkids to go places with her but chooses things most kids would hate and refuses to do kid friendly kinds of things. The gift thing is so perplexing because there does not seem to be a reason whereas she may like the dinners she makes or the places she chooses.

I can see why that's an irritating personality trait, I have known people who do things very much like that, however, I don't see that as an Autistic behavior. Continuing to push a personal preference on someone who has made it abundantly clear that they do not share your enthusiasm is an aggressive type of behavior. I'd say it points toward a BPD, rather than AS.

Demanding that somebody think a certain way, or feel a certain way when presented with something is not associated with autism that I am aware of. Based on what I have experienced in my life it is actually more commonly associated with normal (non autistic) women. I know it is aggravating and annoying, as my mother does it to me too. But I am not sure if there is anything you can really do about it. I haven't been able to get my mother to stop no matter how many times I calmly and rationally explain that I have different tastes then her.

Best of luck to you though. If you don't see her very much then the easiest thing to do would just be to say something like "thanks for the gift, but I already have a dozen sweaters." Just avoid the issue, and hope it doesn't interfere much.

You could always ask her why she does this. I probably would have done that a long time ago.

I could see how she might buy the clothes for her children if she though they were more practical. If she's like me, she would be inclined towards affordable, study clothing that will last and is also easy to wear and comfortable.

What is considered feminine and what is considered masculine is a social construct in our society, and many people with AS do not see the logic in pink pretty things being for girls and the opposite being for boys, because there really is no logic in it.

However your mother's persistence with trying to force this brand of clothing on you into adulthood is odd, even for someone with AS.

Just ask her what she likes about the brand

If her mother is anything like mine, that doesn't work. You just get answers like "thats the way our family does things" or "Don't question me! I am your mother!" May favorite is, 'because I say so."

I have been asking that for years, and I have never really gotten an answer. Simply asking the question infuriates her and then she retaliates at the perceived insult of questioning her ability to make arbitrary and uniformed decisions for other people.

But yeah, if you haven't tried that yet give it a shot and tell me if she gives you a real answer, cause I am curious what the real answer is.

Thanks for your opinions. In terms of the pink for girls thing--well she may not see the logic but she did know my preference and yet steadfastly refused to dress her daughters in the things they really begged for. We were teased endlessly and hated going to school as a result. The issue was more a matter of wearing what is considered appropriate regardless of color or style. We wanted appropriate clothes. it was not necessarily pink or dainty but in style versus not. Her rationale then was that she thought the clothes she dressed us in were better-but when you are growing so fast that you outgrow everything long before it has a chance to rip, what makes something "better". Most people would view as better what looks better and what looks better is guided by what is fashionable at the time. In terms of asking my mother about why she gave a gift she knew I did not want, I have but it leads to all kinds of bizarre answers. Ultimately she says she wanted to. That's kind of it. She gave the gift because she wanted to...it is more a matter of what she wants to do then what she thinks me or in more general terms, the other person, would like. So I don't think she even considers what the reciever wants--its kind of all about what she wants. So she wants to give this gift--end of story. And while at some level she knows I don't want it, my opinion is not factored into the situation. Her perspective is that she wants to give a gift of X and so she does. She seems to have no need to complete the idea in her head--that the gift is being given to somebody and that somebody is going to have feelings about it. And, those feelings will be negative if she already made it clear she does not want it. In contrast, when I give a gift I consider the desires of the person I intend to give the gift to. It does not matter if I like it, it matters if the person getting the gift likes it or feels good about it because that is the only reason I would give a gift to begin with--to make someone feel good.

This may seem strange, but I honestly did not understand that other people have different tastes than me until somewhere in my late 20's. If someone didn't like the same things that I felt strongly about, I assumed that they were simply ignorant of the qualities of said object, book, style of music, product etc, or were just themselves on the unintelligent side. I just couldn't wrap my head around someone not appreciating something that I thought was really wonderful. And at times, I took it upon myself to try to educate certain close friends or family about things that I felt passionately about (obnoxious, I realize now), and I am sure gave some oddly tactless gifts (no, not everyone thinks that a copy of Walt Whitman's "Leaves of Grass" is the best b-day present EVER!). I don't know how exactly it dawned on me that there are real differences in taste, and that there are very intelligent, discriminating people who simply do not like the things I do, and that's OK. But it was gradual, and I like I said, I really didn't grasp it until well into my adulthood.

I know that my sons often have the same issue. They don't realize yet that not everyone wants to hear about Nintendo and Game Maker 24/7, and have recently had a difficult time understanding that one of their very favourite games is about as much fun as a root canal for me. I do think that this ties in with Autism and theory of mind, or rather lack thereof.

I am not sure if this is at the heart of your mom's insensitivity when it comes to gift giving, but maybe she just truly can't get that you don't see the advantages in this particular type of clothes that she does, and will never like or choose them no matter what (think Dr. Seuss' Green Eggs & Ham, she is like Sam-I-Am and is compelled to keep trying to introduce you to those clothes in SOME way that you will like). So I may be off base, but when I read your post it made me think of this issue of not being able to see another's POV.

I had to laugh reading your post because you could be describing half the mother daughter relationships in the universe, based on what I've heard over time. I think it comes down to values more than taste, and values are very stubborn things that parents insist on imposing on their children. Adults tend to have a very different view of fashion than kids, and are completely clueless about what other kids feel is fashionable, but they usually do have values formed around the concept of clothing, including but not limited to how practical they should be, how modest, what types of hidden messages certain style choices might make, what type of company makes it (family / local / sustainable), etc.

I would think that AS is likely to affect the types of values chosen (quality over fashion, for example) and maybe make the tunnel vision a little stronger, but we're still talking a classic parent - child conflict that could have happened in any combination of NT - NT, NT - AS, AS - AS, in my opinion.

I have to ask, did you ever tell you mother specifically that her clothing choices were getting you teased at school? And, if you did, did she believe that was the source of the teasing, or wonder if you had just perceived it wrong? I'm thinking as I type this of a lovely woman I know who for years sent her pale skinned daughter to school with very white zinc oxide sunscreen completely covering her face - - you can only image how ridiculous that looked, but the mom never once seemed to consider that the visual aspect could get her daughter teased, and totally discounted the possibility if you tried to tactfully edge in on the topic. That woman is not AS in the least, but she does have strong ideas, and her kids must toe the line, period (which, miraculous, they do). Anyway, just an example of how well meaning moms can be so unintentionally harmful to their kids ...

My mom, btw, sewed all my clothes until sometime in middle school, and I remember longing for something store bought and, in my opinion, fashionable. Yet, in 6th grade, my homeroom voted me best dressed because of my mom's taste .... I grew up eager to be different with my daughter, and happily dressed her in cute trendy things while she let me. But she has since determined that fashion is silly, and favors the simple classics (which it is really hard to argue against, so I buy what she wants). Basically, daughters will always find some way to be very different from mom, but it doesn't make mom "wrong."

When your mom sends you a gift from that dreaded store, I suggest you take the opportunity to realize how nice it was that your mom was thinking of you while shopping in her favorite place, notice if she's sticking to some pattern like thinking you look great in blue and enjoy a private chuckle at how mom will always be the same mom, and then figure out who in your life would really enjoy receiving the item from you as a surprise. When you talk to your mom about it, you can tell her you just knew so and so would get much more use from it than you would, and decided to pass it on, but that you appreciate knowing she thinks of you.

Reminds me of a time when my sister and I were staying with my grandparents and we went out to buy a half-gallon of ice cream. My grandfather (AS) asked my sister and I what flavor of ice cream we wanted and we said chocolate. But he bought vanilla because that's what he liked the best. I think he thought we'd also like it the best (or realize it was superior) once we tried it.

In the end, we all got close enough to what we wanted. We kids liked our ice cream just fine (even though it wasn't the favorite) and my grandfather got his favorite and the reinforcement that we liked his favorite flavor of ice cream. My advice to the OP is to treat the sweater or whatever comes next in a similar fashion. You don't have to wear it - just tell your mother that you like it and appreciate that she bought it for you. Then find some other use for it - donate to charity, cut it into rags, use it for a kid's smock or something else.

Be glad its just clothes and your not told over and over, how your living a lie and should practice an organized religion. If my mom had her way I would be in a convent and my brother a priest.

I have a friend with PDD-NOS who actually used to do something similar. He wouldn't give people things they explicitly said they did not like, but he'd give gifts excessively and he'd continue to give people gifts after they asked him to stop. Me included.

I finally just had to be firm with him even if it meant being rude and telling him "Thanks for the thought but I don't want it." Or asking him what he bought it for and telling him I didn't need it, or simply failing to take interest in it.

He would usually sulk and act hurt and say something like "Fine then, I guess you don't care." And I'd usually take the chance to remind him I asked him not to buy me anything, and good luck trying to guilt trip someone with AS because it wasn't going to work. So he finally stopped buying ME things excessively.

I discovered eventually that it really didn't have so much to do with wanting to make the other person happy, as you said. He would buy people things because it made him happy to buy things (he'd buy cheap things btw). It was kind if like a hobby for him and he would often buy things he already had and simply forgot he had.

I would have just been upfront with your mother had she been mine. If I knew she had AS I would reason with her. Sometimes people with AS just have to very explicitly be told things you would expect someone to know by 3rd grade, like "It's not nice to buy things for people that you know they don't want. Would you like it you told someone that you didn't like something and then they gave it to you as a gift? That's actually being mean."

""My mom, btw, sewed all my clothes until sometime in middle school, and I remember longing for something store bought and, in my opinion, fashionable. Yet, in 6th grade, my homeroom voted me best dressed because of my mom's taste .... I grew up eager to be different with my daughter, and happily dressed her in cute trendy things while she let me. But she has since determined that fashion is silly, and favors the simple classics (which it is really hard to argue against, so I buy what she wants). Basically, daughters will always find some way to be very different from mom, but it doesn't make mom "wrong." "

I don't know why your mother made your clothes. It may be understandable if there were money issues that precluded store bought clothes. If not, then I think that dressing a child in clothes that she does not feel good about-when alternatives are possible- is a discount to that child. To prevent a slew of messages about how kids should not have everything they want, Ill say upfront that I am not talking about letting kids have anything they want and I am not talking about allowing a child to wear inappropriate things nor am I talking about very young children. . But, within reason, and as appropriate, once a child has a strong feeling about what she is dressed in, the parent ought to listen. Again, I am not saying that a child should always have the style she wants but the parent should consider the child's views when making clothing decisions. A parent dressing her child in home made clothes when she expresses a clear preference to have clothes from a store is probably discounting the child in favor of her own pet hobbies or interests unless there is a compelling reason for the home made clothes. If the parent simply wants to make the clothes because she wants to...and she is closed to her child's dislike for them, and if she makes her child go to school in clothes that make her feel badly then the parent is probably clueless regardless of the votes by the other children. (and we have to wonder what sort of teacher allows kids to vote about best dressed but maybe that is for another thread). She has decided that her daughter's feelings aren't important and that her own desire to make the clothes is much more important than how her daughter feels about how she looks. That seems pretty sad to me. Maybe a possible solution to mothers and daughters arguing about these things, as you had indicated, would be for the mother to listen to the daughter and consider her perspective. I am not suggesting the result is always that the daughter "gets her way" but that the parent be thoughtful. Perhaps a nice mix of some store bought clothes and some home made clothes would have thrilled the daughter and hopefully the mother can be flexible enough to appreciate the need to compromise and to be considerate of the importance of the issue to her daughter.

"This may seem strange, but I honestly did not understand that other people have different tastes than me until somewhere in my late 20's. If someone didn't like the same things that I felt strongly about, I assumed that they were simply ignorant of the qualities of said object, book, style of music, product etc, or were just themselves on the unintelligent side. I just couldn't wrap my head around someone not appreciating something that I thought was really wonderful. And at times, I took it upon myself to try to educate certain close friends or family about things that I felt passionately about (obnoxious, I realize now), and I am sure gave some oddly tactless gifts (no, not everyone thinks that a copy of Walt Whitman's "Leaves of Grass" is the best b-day present EVER!). I don't know how exactly it dawned on me that there are real differences in taste, and that there are very intelligent, discriminating people who simply do not like the things I do, and that's OK. But it was gradual, and I like I said, I really didn't grasp it until well into my adulthood. "

Thanks for your post. yes, this makes sense. My mother probably thinks that she is right, I should like the clothes and either way, she will do what she wants without any regard for what I would want. I think you nailed it! thanks

'Chronos wrote:
You could always ask her why she does this. I probably would have done that a long time ago.


If her mother is anything like mine, that doesn't work. You just get answers like "thats the way our family does things" or "Don't question me! I am your mother!" May favorite is, 'because I say so."'

My mother deflects questions . Why questions are answered as if they were a challenge. I have asked many times. Why did you get me that if you know I don't like it?" "Why don't you like it?" ...so she deflects back and that used to lead to endless protracted arguments-I used to think explaining would help things because I thought any reasonable person would see the logic of the explanation. if I explained well enough, she'd get it. Since I realized that her behaviors fit a clear Aspie pattern I also understand why explanations don't alter her view or change her behavior. I still can't understand her viewpoint and why she persists beyond the fact that people with asperger's seem to do this sort of thing.

Cubscomeback I have clothing problems that are similar to yours and both of my parents are nt so I don´t think that this issue is merely related to as parents.

Both of my parents have been quite succesful in their jobs and they like to show it on their clothing, I don´t have a problem with what they wear, however for some odd reason most parents expect their siblings to like the same things as them.

I was forced into wearing trademark polos and such until a few years ago.

A few years ago I managed to get some money and I started buying my own clothing and I stopped wearing most of the things they bought. At the start they kept buying me the clothes they wanted, however after a few months they realized their effort was pointless and they started asking me what do I want.

Now I have another problem.They ask me what I want I tell them especifically which item has caught my attention, where can it be found etc and the thing is they always come up with something different. This christmas for example they were complaining about how old was my coat so I started looking for a new one and when I found one I told them. They went to the shop where my coat was, however apparently for some odd reason they decided that instead of spending the money in what I asked them for they should buy what they wanted. This christmas I ended up with a pair of trousers that are exactly the same as 5 other pairs I wear daily(I like them however I dont need 6 pairs of trademark trousers), a polo that I can tolerate and is worn when I have run out of clean proper shirts, and 2 shirts that were acceptable. They spent twice as much as the coat I had asked them for.


The only thing that made my parents make a small change on their clothing presents was when I pointed out to them that they were expending money on clothing that was probably not going to be worn and sent to a charity on a few years. I relaize it was a bit harsh but maybe you should start telling your mother this kind of things. Sometimes it can be hard to change an aspies mind however I believe statements like this one make things far clearer.

Thanks for your message. At times I have told her that whatever will be wasted--and more. She knows that. Here is a story (details changed in the very unlikely event a family member were to read this) that is telling. At an important birthday, I think 21, my mother asked if I wanted a watch. I had this vision of her lovingly picking out a watch she thought I would like-pretty and sort of Longine clone-and what does she show up with? A watch from that store that could be worn equally well by a Sumo wrestler or forest ranger. Not wrapped in a pretty box. Not with a thoughtful card. Not with anything but some comment about her being clever to have an extra. I was crushed-so the fact that I did not give up on the idea she could take my perspective must suggest some Aspie in me hah? To me the value of the watch was not to be able to tell time even if there was a tsunami. The value was more symbolic than anything else. She already knew how I felt about the company but gave it to me anyway and knowing the 21 year old daughter was crushed by the selection, and bringing home the evidence was still not enough for her to stop. So now it is a curiosity to me-what is going on in her head immediately before she does these things? Funny how much time I spend trying to figure these things out and how she does not give it a second of thought. Irony and problem associated with NT with Aspie mom. the NT gets the guilt, is pegged as the problem and is the one who tries to make things right when the Aspie is totally disengaged.