help for disciplining son

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i'm hoping i can find some help for the problems i have disciplining my son. the problem is, that *I* have trouble disciplining him (and maybe also it's him not able to learn, i'm not sure). i'm just not good at seeing or knowing the consequences or what to do. i can't figure out from one thing to the next what to do, can't see the larger picture of it. i've tried and tried to sit down and think of a "system", and even search for a "child discipline system" that i could use to understand it all, but i hadn't come up with a complete full-functioning one, or found one. i have this problem with everything, it's like my mind is "blank", and stuff goes in, but i'm not able to make sense of it or have context for it, or apply it anywhere, sometimes i think i may have HFA.

but anyway, whenever i try to look up something for discipline and aspergers, i see mostly for parents who have children with aspergers, not for difficulties that PARENTS WITH aspergers/autism would have in parenting their children. i don't get it, because i would think that the parents of the children that have aspergers would have as/autism as well.

so, i'm wondering if anyone has any advice or can point me to books that could help me understand?

Wow. I can see where this would be an issue - parenting is a big, complex job and it is very hard to break it down into manageable chunks. Unfortunately, this is compounded by the fact that each child is an individual and so you aren't really going to find specific help in a book or on the internet.

I find it helpful to remind myself that the root of the word "discipline" is the latin word for "teach" or "learn." Your primary job as a parent is to gradually teach your child what he or she needs to know in order to become an adult. It's a long, slow process - you may find some help in looking up childhood development: it may give you an idea of what to expect at each stage.

The question I would ask - why do you think your child needs discipline? What are the issues you think need to be addressed?

What is it that you have difficulties with? And how old is your son, what is the situation? Do you for example have a partner or other children? How is your son behaving in school?

General advice that should work for any age and situation: be clear and be consistent.

If something is not allowed, explain shortly if your child may not understand why. Don't argue with him, but be reasonable. Your son may express his opinion but your decision is final. So ask for any reasons first, then tell the consequences (punishment). Once you have told them, they are not negotiable. Don't second guess yourself over small things. If you need time to decide about punishment, tell him that. Determine when you will have decided and tell him when that will be. But only do that with really big things. For example if he is violent towards you and you feel emotional about that. Punishment needs to be applied as quickly as possible (but not over-hasted). Punishing for something that happened a week ago is not going to work (except if you only found out about it an hour ago and it was important, off course). Punishment should be according to the violation. If your son makes a mess, he will be the one cleaning it. Don't punish harder than necessary.

Also, if something was not allowed yesterday, it's still not allowed today and tomorrow. The rules are the rules and only make exceptions if you find that appropriate. If you don't punish one day and punish the next day for the same thing, your son won't understand why. Kids need to have boundaries. If you decide to change the rules, tell him and include the reason if necessary. Also make sure that you use the same system as the other people that are raising him in the family-setting. Like your partner or family that lives in. The same rules apply, regardless of who is around him. So be consistent, and agree on what an appropriate punishment is. Also, once a punishment is given by you, only you can remove it. Don't argue about it in front of him if you think your partner is punishing too lightly or too much. You are one team and support each other in front of him. Discuss disagreements with each other when your son is not around. Don't interfere with others that are punishing him. If he got in trouble in school and was already punished, don't punish more just because you can. If in doubt, check with the appropriate person (like teacher) if extra punishment or other action of you is appropriate.

In the volunteer work I do at a scouting group we have a warning-system. If a child does something wrong, he gets a warning. Off course this is only for things that you would give punishment for, smaller things are resolved by a verbal correction. Two warnings on the same day means a punishment, to be given directly after the second warning. The punishment is that the child has to sit on a chair (or somewhere else) for a given amount of time. The amount we use is one minute per year of age. So 7 years old means 7 minutes to sit. This works good until they are about 11-12 years old. This system may work for you, or it may not. The big advantages I see is that they see the first warning as a big red stop sign, they don't want to have one. You don't have to punish them all the time for small things but you will if it gets out of hand. If you see your child abusing the system (like mis-behaving before bed time because he only gets a warning), change it. If the misbehavior is very severe you can opt to skip the warning, but always tell why you don't follow the system (i.e. because the behavior is very wrong). Stick to it as much as reasonably possible, but you are in charge. The system is there for you, not the other way around.

If the punishment was given and you have talked about what he did wrong (important, he needs to understand!), don't mention it again. Also, be clear about your own behavior. Lead by example. If you get caught doing something wrong or have made a mistake, admit it. Treat your son like you would want to be treated in that situation. So don't yell or call him names, even is he does. You are the adult. He is a child and children learn by copying behavior.

And lastly the most important thing: punishment is a tool, not a goal. Only give punishment if you think your child will learn from it. Don't give it just because you can. If your child learns nothing from a punishment, the time spent is useless and working against you. No one likes to be punished without or beyond reason.

Hope you find the above text useful.

I don't have alot of advice, but one thing I know about Aspie children is that they usually want to know "why" they can't or shouldn't do something. So if you explain to them that something could be dangerous or hurt them and this is why you are telling them no, then maybe they will understand.

Also, with AS children, you have to take into consideration that some of the things they are doing may be due to the diagnosis, and you have to be careful not to punish them for things that they are having difficulty with. You can work with them on these things, but punishing them usually does not work.

Is your son typical or does he have ASD? I had problems with my NT daughter and my older son who was early onset bipolar because I simply didnt understand them and their needs very well. Also my son had extreme problems. I did use that old "1 2 3 magic" thing when they were smaller. Dont ask me what to do with teenagers LOL! Basically the 1 2 3 thing works like this: if you get to three they have to sit in their room or if you are out in public with them everyone just has to stop and stand still. I also would stop the car if they were fighting and would not stop before I got to three....this actually worked quite well. My "autistic" kids are much easier, at least for me. I understand them because I am also of an autistic mind. Ive never used anything but my own wits with my two younger kids (Aspie age 8 and Autie age 5). Typically they just need sensory regulation or plain reasoning (more for my Aspie). So I dont really need a "system" for them. Dont know if I helped but I can relate to how you feel.

There is a fantastic, long thread here http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt74139.html with posts from Aspie parents and other Aspie adults.

I had googled "asperger's discipline" a while back to find it and this was my introduction to this wonderful forum. The most important thing I learned from this thread was not to take away my son's computer time for discipline. I now use extra chores as consequences and my son accepts this readily. Once I learned this, most of his defiance went away. Computer time is his favorite thing and is necessary for relaxation. I was so greatful to learn this from the words of adults with Asperger's and hearing their pain. That was so meaningful to me. I can't thank you folks enough for answering questions on this forum!! !

Before reading the above thread, I thought my son could not understand any rules whatsoever. He does - I was just not using the right consequences.

ari posted the most important tip in my opinion and that is BE CONSISTENT. Find a method and stick with it taking care not to make it too confusing. The punishment should match the offense and not be too illogical or unrelated. My daughter has trouble generalizing-in other words just because you can't hit someone on the head doesn't mean you can't hit them on the back. Perhaps that's too simplistic but I am careful to state short "rules" such as "you do not hit!", "you do not bite!", etc.

All of the traditional disciplinary techniques were tried and failed in our house-corporal punishment made her more aggressive, sticker charts lost their desirability, time outs were not enforceable unless I held her down which just provoked a meltdown of grand proportions. The only thing that worked for us is loss of privileges-she lashes out me and she loses my attention for a period, she breaks something she loses the ability to have things that are breakable, she won't turn off tv she loses ability to watch tv tomorrow. These seem like "natural" consequences and are more understandable.

I caution against googling a technique and using it-what works for others may not work for you. I once had a child therapist tell me to hold my daughter in a bear hug until she complied with a time out. Several hours later I was peed on and vomited on (not to mention suffered brutal attempts to harm me), close to losing my mind, and she never relented-only passed out in exhaustion. Next time we saw that therapist he said "It won't take that long next time" to which I said "that's right-because there will NEVER be a next time!". He didn't get it and on that day I learned one thing-NO ONE can tell you how to parent your child-only you as their parent can intuitively gather what will work for their unique personaility. That therapist's advice on discipline was abuse when applied to my daughter and her psychological make up.

Here's a couple of pointers that have worked in our situation:

1. If your child is on the spectrum, they may be living in a timeframe of a "15-minute window" where everything in their world is within the past 15 minutes or the next 15 minutes. Why this matters in terms of discipline is, if you are trying to teach your child consequences, the discipline must administered immediately after the infraction, not an hour later or a day later, but immediately, otherwise it won't have any impact. Also, the disicpline method you chose must be short-lived, for example, a 15-minute timeout. Grounding your child for two weeks as a discipline method probably won't work because of the 15-minute window.

2. Whatever discipline method you chose, explain it carefully and literally to your child ahead of time, before any infractions occur, so that your child is well aware of the consequences before the infraction occurs. You could even make a "contract" with your child and get their buy-in on the discipline method ahead of time.

3. Above all, be consistent. Use the same method every time and stick to the "contract" you made with your child so there are no surprises. Even if it doesn't seem like your method is working, stick with it. It may take many months and even years to teach the lesson of consequences, but learning will occur if you are consistent over the long run. Remember, you are trying to teach life lessons to a human being.

4. Be flexibile and willing to adapt. If something clearly is not working, then it may be time for a change. Though this may seem contrary to number 3, it is still possible to implement a flexible discipline system and still maintain consistency over the long run. Tough balance, I know, but life is like a learning lab and you have to be ready to embrace change when it is needed.

5. Be compassionate and follow the golden rule. Treat your child as you would have liked to have been treated when you were a child.

Best of luck!

Ugh. Yes - the nearly exact same scenario happened to us, too (well, I didn't get peed on or vomited on, but both DS and I wound up getting hurt) WORST POSSIBLE ADVICE E-V-E-R. It had the additional disadvantage of making it more difficult for me to control my own aggressive impulses. We went from this to a universal "no angry touch" rule pretty quickly.

I suppose there are kids for whom this technique works, but if a discipline technique makes things worse for both you and your child, it isn't working. (In most discipline, your child may test your determination by defying you. which is what the therapists are thinking is going on when they say "next time." This is not to be confused with sending your child into a complete meltdown, which is definitely making things worse.)

The "Positive Discipline" books are good. Don't get caught up in punishment; a few minor consequences (time out, etc.) are fine if they work, but negativity can escalate quickly because aspies don't handle emotional turbulence well. If you start arguing with them about punishment, it might only make things worse.

First, put yourself in your child's shoes. If you are on the spectrum, chances are you'll see quickly why traditional punishment doesn't work. Imagine someone yelling at you and bossing you around; frustrating, right? Embarassing also. And, if you don't handle emotions well, it only makes things worse.

Let your child calm down. Seriously, avoid arguing and "bear hugs" because they only create bad feelings between you and your child. It isn't worth the long-term damage to trust. Give them some quiet time, computer time, or whatever calms them. If they are threatening a sibling or something, just stand between them and take what they dish out. (Hard, I know, but don't get angry or vengeful. Remember, they aren't in control because of their condition, and it isn't personal.)

Later, talk about the bad behavior, quickly state why it is bad, and give them a time out or something if necessary. Keep it quick and peaceful. Never generalize and say the child is bad; just the behavior.

Most of the time, parents of aspie children instigate the really bad behaviors by turning little things into big things, and the argument throws the child into a rage. Let the little things go, and let them deal with the consequences. (Child won't go to sleep? Fine, they can explain to the teacher why they are late for school.) Just deal with these things by encouraging positive behavior, and wait until they grow out of them.

Don't be a control freak with an aspie. Parents who try to squelch the independent will of an aspie child will have the worst time, the worst relationships, etc. Instead, realize that the child's emotions haven't caught up with their reasoning, and give them a bit of credit. They probably know that what they did was wrong. They just can't shut their emotions off yet.

^ Phew - this is what I'm learning to do with D. She's nearly 4 and for her the most important thing is consequences. Might not work but I'm trying to appeal to her natural sense of fairness and wanting to know the rules - once she knows and understands, she's pretty good at following them.