20 year old son quit job, hiding in his room for past month

Post Reply New Topic

He found enough English speaking players in game. And he probably learned some key Korean words to play with Koreans....

I have persuaded him to go back on the anti depressants I am so far happy to say, next step is rescheduling his appointment with the MD.

I agree there is no reasoning with someone who is depressed. Been there, done that and bought the t-shirt.

Thanks for the explanation Wreck-Gar. I googled similar things and came up with an article that the Yakuza Japanese mafia is now involved with chat boards where single men are duped out of money from potential mail order brides, then once they have been milked dry, the woman says, 'oh I can't make that move to your country after all'. Being the diligent Mom I am I emailed a copy of the article to my son....

I know he liked this Asian girl in HS but was too shy to ever speak to her very much.

Just waiting to see how he responds to the anti depressant before anything else right now.

Glad to hear he will go back on the anti-depressants.

I have never heard of the yakuza think you mention but it would not surprise me, I have heard similar situations where old people get duped in a similar way.

I was thinking more along the lines of meeting a girl online, then travelling all the way to Japan to meet her (full of unrealistic expectations) and then meeting up with her maybe once and then she gets scared, runs off, and never talks to him again. I've heard of things like this happening.

Assuming he does have AS...

The teen ager to adult transition is a difficult time for many people and to someone with AS it can seem like the end of the world. They often feel like they are being pushed off the end of a cliff and they doubt their ability to fly but he knows he eventually has to.

To compound that, he probably doesn't know what to do with his life. I would give him a few months to think and re-collect himself and after that I would sit down with him and tell him you expect him to do something with his life, whether it is work at a job, or go to school, or even do volunteer work. I would make sure he knows that you will do your best to support him along the way. You will help him socially if he lets you, and you will help him financially with school, but the condition that he lives with you is that he works towards doing something with his life.

You might also try taking him on a few trips to places he hasn't been, or get involved with him in a few programs that give him a taste of different environments and paths in life that he might be interested in.

If he does have AS, I think it's important that you paint this in his mind as a trade off rather than a disorder that implies he is needy in some way, because it really is a trade off. Many individuals with AS become doctors, or professors or researchers and world experts in their field. The concept that people with AS are inherently disabled and needy would be an ignorant one.

What if the medication will just mask his symptoms and not solve his issues at all?

PaintingDiva

Your kid may have some similar questions. These are some of the things your child may be having trouble with? He may have some of this in his thoughts and may not know what it means.



Was he ever given this speech at his school



Some of what this man says makes no sense to me and maybe I am interpreting it wrong.

Critique of Some rules kids won't learn in school

http://www.n0rm.net/LifeIsntFair.htm
This was an article that was Printed in San Diego Union Tribune in the month, day, and year of our lord September 19, 1996. The article is called "Some rules kids won't learn in school." which is by By Charles J. Sykes.


I think it is time to challenge this article bit by bit and challenge some of this man's values.
1. Rule No. 1: Life is not fair. Get used to it. The average teen-ager uses thephrase, "It's not fair" 8.6 times a day. You got it from your parents, whosaid it so often you decided they must be the most idealistic generationever. When they started hearing it from their own kids, they realized RuleNo.


a and b are two definitions of the word fair

a. free from bias, dishonesty, or injustice: a fair decision; a fair judge.
b. legitimately sought, pursued, done, given, etc.; proper under the rules: a fair fight.

c. life is not fair
d. if c is a true statement then a is false
e. if c is a true statement then b is false
f. if b is false then c must be false as well
g. if c is false then a is true or b is true
Conclusion: a or b Life is fair

a
b
c
c>>~a
c>>~b
~b>>~c
~c>>(a or b)


2. Rule No. 2: The real world won't care as much about your self-esteem as muchas your school does. It'll expect you to accomplish something before youfeel good about yourself. This may come as a shock. Usually, when inflatedself-esteem meets reality, kids complain it's not fair. (See Rule No. 1)


a. What exactly is the real world? How does a person tell if something is real or if it is just hollywood or made up? What objective tests should a child do?

b. Let's say that we can quantify self-esteem from 1 to 100. 1 is extremely low self esteem and 100 is extremely high. What is a good range that a person should stay in so they do have healthy self-esteem that is not too high or not too low? How does a person stay within that range?

3. Rule No. 3: Sorry, you won't make $40,000 a year right out of high school.And you won't be a vice president or have a car phone either. You may evenhave to wear a uniform that doesn't have a Gap label.

a. What will the high schooler make when he or she graduates high school? What is the average? If the average is low or minimum wage what can the child do to feed, clothe, and shelter himself or herself?


b. How can they earn the $40,000 year, vice president, and a car phone? What about college?

c. How does a child determine how much they are truly worth in the marketplace? What are the step by step instructions to do this?

4. Rule No. 4: If you think your teacher is tough, wait 'til you get a boss. Hedoesn't have tenure, so he tends to be a bit edgier. When you screw up, he'snot going to ask you how you feel about it.

a. What does this mean right here? Does this mean that the boss will demand perfection? No one can meet that demand. Everyone will screw up from time to time. We have a law called Murphy's law which proves this. What happens if you have multiple bosses who give contradictory, inconsistent, or vague instructions? What do you do then?

b. This happened at Kroger plenty of times for me. Speaking of Kroger, this is another thing that happened to me in which I was in a catch-22 sometimes. When the place was not busy I was supposed to find stuff to do. In order to do that, I had to go to the back to get supplies or do stuff in the back. The problem with this is it could get busy right when I left the front.

I could've stayed in the front even if I was idle and doing nothing to make sure the front had a courtesy clerk. They did not like any idle time at all. Either way I was violating their rules and "screwing up." This was because if I follow one rule I violate the other either way it went. What should have I done to keep in compliance and not screw up?

Rule No. 5: Flipping burgers is not beneath your dignity. Your grand-parentshad a different word of burger flipping. They called it opportunity. Theyweren't embarrassed making minimum wage either. They would have beenembarrassed to sit around talking about Kurt Cobain all weekend.

a. This is fine and I agree except for one thing. How is someone expected to provide themselves a living on minimum wage while being only worth the minimum wage? What should this someone do to feed, clothe, and shelter himself or herself?

Rule No. 6: It's not your parents' fault. If you screw up, you areresponsible. This is the flip side of "It's my life," and "You're not theboss of me," and other eloquent proclamations of your generation. When youturn 18, it's on your dime. Don't whine about it, or you'll sound like ababy boomer.

a. A person would have to be entitled to take responsbility. If they're not entitled to anything and the world owes them nothing then how is it possible to take responsiblity if one is not owed this as a right?

b. What are the rules and detailed instructions to taking responsibility? Is a person entitled to these instructions and rules as well?

c. How can the parents be the boss of their child if no one is entitled to anything. This means a parent is not entitled to be the boss.

d. If we're entitled to nothing then we're not entitled to our lives as well no matter what our inalienable rights are. This should be true as well.

Rule No. 7: Before you were born your parents weren't as boring as they arenow. They got that way paying your bills, cleaning up your room andlistening to you tell them how idealistic you are. And by the way, beforeyou save the rain forest from the blood-sucking parasites of your parents'generation, try delousing the closet in your bedroom.

a. Where is your evidence that the parent's child made the parent's boring?
b. Where is the evidence that the parents were fun and exciting in the first place?
c. How do you know how each child's closet in each child's bedroom looks like?
d. What is wrong with trying to preserve the rain forest?

Rule No. 8: Your school may have done away with winners and losers. Lifehasn't. In some schools, they'll give you as many times as you want to getthe right answer. Failing grades have been abolished and classvaledictorians scrapped, lest anyone's feelings be hurt. Effort is asimportant as results. This, of course, bears not the slightest resemblanceto anything in real life. (See Rule No. 1, Rule No. 2 and Rule No. 4)

a. What constitutes a winner and a loser?
b. What does this mean right here? Does this mean the world like your boss demands perfection? How is this a reasonable demand? How can you get things right all the time when things can and do go wrong like murphy's law says?
c. "Failing grades have been abolished and classvaledictorians scrapped, lest anyone's feelings be hurt." Name me the schools where this occurs.
d. "Effort is asimportant as results." In my middle school, this was true. I will grant him this one.

Rule No. 9: Life is not divided into semesters, and you don't get summersoff. Not even Easter break. They expect you to show up every day. For eighthours. And you don't get a new life every 10 weeks. It just goes on and on.While we're at it, very few jobs are interesting in fostering yourself-expression or helping you find yourself. Fewer still lead toself-realization. (See Rule No. 1 and Rule No. 2.)

a. This is non-true. No they don't expect you to show up everyday. First, in alot of places you get weekends off. There is part time work as well. You do get some federal holidays off and christmas. Most people get weekends off. How is it possible for one to get a new life. If one dies then they die. There is no technology to give a person a new life and bring a person back from the dead.

b. What would help a person find themselves and lead to a person's self-realization if it is not a job? How do you know finding yourself and self-realization is a worthwhile goal?

c. "It just goes on and on." This is not true. You eventually die or retire.

Rule No. 10: Television is not real life. Your life is not a sitcom. Yourproblems will not all be solved in 30 minutes, minus time for commercials.In real life, people actually have to leave the coffee shop to go to jobs.Your friends will not be as perky or pliable as Jennifer Aniston.

a. What is real life then? What is life period?
b. How long will it take for me to solve my problems? How do I solve my problems?
c. If my life is a non-sitcom then what is my life?

Rule No. 11: Be nice to nerds. You may end up working for them. We allcould.
If this is true then why do I need these nebulous, ambigious, and vague social skills to be able to obtain any type of job these days and to succeed?

Rule No. 12: Smoking does not make you look cool. It makes you look moronic.Next time you're out cruising, watch an 11-year-old with a butt in hismouth. That's what you look like to anyone over 20. Ditto for "expressingyourself" with purple hair and/or pierced body parts.

a. I totally agree with this one especially the smoking. I have no objections to this one. What does smoking have to do with succeeding in the real world and being able to determine what the real world is?

Rule No. 13: You are not immortal. (See Rule No. 12.) If you are under theimpression that living fast, dying young and leaving a beautiful corpse isromantic, you obviously haven't seen one of your peers at room temperaturelately.

a. I agree with this one as well. Why would I want to live fast and have all of this stress?
I will be the kid's gadfly on this one. What kid thinks a corpse is romantic?

Rule No. 14: Enjoy this while you can. Sure parents are a pain, school's abother, and life is depressing. But someday you'll realize how wonderful itwas to be a kid. Maybe you should start now.
a. It depends on the kid and their circumstances.
b. What should one do as a kid?


Here are more questions:
1. What is one supposed to do to earn a job?

2. I've been told to start at the bottom when it comes to the workplace. Where exactly is the bottom? How does one determine this? What exactly is the workplace hierarchy and strcture?

3. What exactly does it mean to have a positive attitude in detail? What is the criteria for one who has a positive attitude

4. Same questions for negative attitude.

5. What exactly does it mean to take initiative? How does one know in the workplace whether something needs to be done or not? What if some special condition needs to happen before this something happens? For example, let's say there is a spill on the ground. Let's say I clean up the spill and I really wasn't supposed to do that. Maybe they wanted to do something with the spill. I end up getting a lecture and a scream fest. How was I supposed to know I wasn't supposed to do that? What if there was a time sensitive activity that needed to occur before I did something? What if I took initiative on this particular something and I did not know about this time sensitive activiety and again I get yelled at? How do I tell if something truly needs to be done or if my perceptions are faulty.

6. Let's say one boss gives you an instruction and another boss gives you another gives one that contradicts the other boss's instruction. What is the correct resolution to this?

7. Let's say a person is doing their job and he encounters a situation that prevents him or her from completing the task. What should he or she do? Should they attempt to try to solve the problem themselves? Should they obtain clarification from their boss? If they have to obtain clarification and the boss is nowhere to be found what should they do? What is the correct procedure to go by?

To compound that, he probably doesn't know what to do with his life. I would give him a few months to think and re-collect himself and after that I would sit down with him and tell him you expect him to do something with his life, whether it is work at a job, or go to school, or even do volunteer work. I would make sure he knows that you will do your best to support him along the way. You will help him socially if he lets you, and you will help him financially with school, but the condition that he lives with you is that he works towards doing something with his life.


This is pretty much my plan. I would very much like to have him tested for Aspergers but so far he refuses. I agree wholeheartedly, it is not a disease and he has the gift of a very high intelligence.

Thanks for the analysis of that speech cubeddemon6073.

One day at a time is my current motto as far as my son is concerned.

Thanks again for the posts.

I was going to get on this page and post something quite similar. Our 20 year old with AS is not staying in his room, but he is difficult to motivate. He also loves Japanese, Anime, WOW, and all Role playing video games. He also does not consistently take his meds (Wellbutrin). Nor does he consistently brush his teeth, shower, wash his clothes, etc. We are trying to find out if he wants services, support, etc. We got him started on a great program in our town for young adults with mental health issues (he also has anxiety and ADHD we believe). He told this program that his moms wanted him to do this but he was fine, he didn't want any help. He told us that they wouldn't give him services. He lied to us, we went to bat for him and they told us that he kept saying he didn't want any help. They were going to help him with getting a job, getting his classes at JC, counseling, psychiatric services for meds, and eventually getting an apartment. He blew that. Now he's going through the regular medi-cal docs, but gets his appointments mixed up, doesn't ask the right questions, get the information right, etc. The doctor gave him a referral to a neurologist for his ADHD. Why? He did not even ask that. He's either on his cell phone, texting, on facebook, on some game on his phone, or he's got his MP3 on. He wants to play video games and watch TV all day. We have restricted his use of all of that. He is enrolled in college. He is working on getting into the disability department. His behaviors are very frustrating. As you know too. We told him we may have to ask him to move out. He said he would die living on the streets. He just returned this summer from living next door to his father, renting a room from his uncle for 2 years. He was semi-independent. The first year went better, this last year, he dropped out of college and just played video games, went to the library and spent minimal time with his friends. He called to ask if he could come home and do this program we got him started in. We don't know if he is just not capable of independent living or just wants to do his own thing. He gets SSI for his disability, so he pays his rent and his own way. He also does chores in the house, which we require. Is this living a life as an adult with AS? What will motivate him? It's very puzzling and frustrating.

I see the situation as, anyone with Aspergers and a computer and the internet, never need leave their house if they want to live that way and their parents allow it. There are exceptions of course, read Tracker's earlier post. He finished college, got a job and still spends time online gaming and enjoying the social aspects of that life but he keeps his priorities straight.

I just read an interview with Jaron Lanier, who is a visionary/genius who helped design the first Virtual Reality equipment and now often comments on the internet etc, he makes a very interesting point about the younger generation:


And there is a disturbing sense in which I feel like that's the world we're entering. I'm astonished at how readily a great many people I know, young people, have accepted a reduced economic prospect and limited freedoms in any substantial sense, and basically traded them for being able to screw around online. There are just a lot of people who feel that being able to get their video or their tweet seen by somebody once in a while gets them enough ego gratification that it's okay with them to still be living with their parents in their 30s, and that's such a strange tradeoff. And if you project that forward, obviously it does become a problem.


I am waiting for my son to be on a more even keel, getting back on his anti-depressant, then we will be pushing him hard to get another job, or chose a trade school, or college, to get the training for a better job.

If he flat out refuses to do any of that, then we will be saying, take that money your Grandfather saved for your college tuition and go get your own place to live. You can't live here anymore. Which will be very hard to do, but better to do it now than when he is 30 years old and still living at home with Mom + Dad, jobless, and the internet his only connection to life.

Are you going to tell him how the workplace works and show him step by step how to get a job, how to meet the job requirements, and how to pass the job interviews? If he does not have the social or communication skills employers require they not will not hire him. The Americans with Disabilities act will not help him whatsoever. The employers have engineered their processes to fit the law. In addition, if he chooses a trade school or college then you all need to check how the market is doing for that degree. Another question he may ask for this is how does he do that? There are a lot of questions you're going to have to answer if you want him to get a job.



I going to be honest here. Have you have been reading about what has been happening with college graduates? A good chunk of them have not been able to find jobs with their degrees at all. Places like walmart will not take them either because they feel that once the jobs come back they will split. IMHO, your child has given up. He has aspergers plus we're in a bad economy. He is asking himself what chance do I have out there at all? He is asking himself why should I bother? It seems like all jobs require years of experience. Another thing is, the educators, the media and the press make it seem like all you have to do is get a college degree and you will be guaranteed.

Let's say you end up kicking him out. He already sees himself as having no prospects whatsoever. I'm sorry but this may be the final nail in his coffin. He may end up putting himself 6 feet under literally. You want him to take responsibility for his own life. My question is how does he do that?

You paint a very bleak picture of the world. I don't know, how did the author John Robison get on with his life, with no college degree and many problems? Read his books if you have not.

If I thought my son was in a place where he was going to commit suicide, I would not be telling him you have to move out now. I thought I made that clear in previous posts.

However, when he is feeling better, we will be addressing the issue of financial independence and what kind of job he will have. He did interview for his first job,and got the job, he was very anxious about interviewing, he had gone to this work center where he was given a list of all the interview questions he might be asked. He obsessed over that a lot.

He prepared a resume, he was taught how to do this at the alternative HS he graduated from, he wore a shirt and tie, and he was shocked when they offered him the job. And it was a very short interview, the main thing they wanted to know was 'did you graduate from high school?' Fortunately he was able to say yes.

How would he do for a more high level job, where they will ask you all those questions? I don't know. He is very shy, not great at eye contact and in situations like that he probably would give very short answers.

Baby steps, for now.

I appreciate your concern and I can hear the frustration in your post.

I saw this today and thought of this thread:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/01/fashi ... c_ev=click

That being said, there is no reason why your son can't earn his rent by helping you around the house, and I think it's fine to set a boundary that EITHER he gets a job (with the understanding that jobs are scarce and difficult to get) OR he does sufficient chores to offset the cost of his living at home. Figure out which chores he's capable of doing (keep in mind some chores involve sensory things that may make them really difficult for an Aspie) make a visual list that includes all the steps, give him a schedule of chores and a reasonable deadline for each one. He may need help getting started with each chore (haven't found a better option for this than nagging, which works OK on a ten year old but not on an adult - anyone?) as changing physical states and transitioning is hard for an aspie (maybe music?) I'd include a half-hour of jobsearch stuff (making a LinkedIn profile, resume, signing up on Monster.com, etc.)

He needs these self-care skills anyway. If you are paying for the internet he is using/the computer or device he's playing on, you can try using that as currency (he can still go play WOW at the library, but only during library hours.) I have been known to turn off the circuit breaker in my son's room for a short time for serious infractions.

The key, though, is if he meets your requirements, you LEAVE HIM ALONE.

You're right, I am painting a bleak picture of this world. Right now, I see the world as very bleak. I will take you up on reading John Robinson. To be honest, I made my decisions in life based upon certain assumptions I had about the workplace and society itself. This is another thing right here. Make sure he does not have any faulty assumptions about the workplace, what they require and not require, and about society in general. For example, does he understand what the phrase "Be yourself" truly means?

It is not just about aspergers. There are those who claim to promote personal responsibility, truth and honesty but yet their actions seem to prove otherwise. There are those who profess themselves as christains but yet their actions says otherwise. Our educators promote excellent values as well like honesty but again actions prove otherwise. I've seen so many lies, deceptions, and sophistries from people both at the top and at the bottom that I may becoming a misanthrobe.

If the way things are done in the USA are the best way to go, is the epitome of perfection, and normality is what we aspies ought to strive for then why is our economy in such shambles? Tons of people so far that I've seen and met hate the way things are in this country. These same people accept life isn't fair but these people who hate the way thing are accept everything as is and never want to challenge it. I understand life isn't fair. I understand that everything is the way it is and there is nothing I can do to change anything. My question is though is why? Why do you all accept this is the way it is and has to be? Why is the American system the way it is and why does it make all of these demands? Why is it that anyone who challenges this is berated and put down? Is this the best America can do?

I am very sick right now and have a cold. I am extra grumpy today. This isn't my aspergers either. I have been cursed with something else and that is wanting to know why. I am one of those types who want to know why the sky is blue. Believe me it's not fun. Other aspies who do not care for the reason are lucky in that respect.




I did not understand the inherent meaning of this poem by Yeats until recently. I do now.
http://culturekitchen.com/quotes/what_r ... to_be_born





This is awesome. I am glad he did get it.







I agree.



Yes, you're right I am very frustrated.

Pardon my rant but I was not feeling too well.

hey, Painting Diva and Auspiesmom-
some reassurance and knowing I am not alone.
My daughter is also up all night, sleeps til 3 or 4 in the afternoon.
I am not currently pressuring her at all, since she is enjoying her last wisp of The First Summer After High School.
She's supposed to go enroll at the University this week, says she can't decide between Computer Science and Physics.
I have my fingers crossed for her, try to let her know I am available for moral, practical and financial support (when she is in the mood to accept it!) and try to steer clear of her when she is ... negative. (she threw a beer can at me last night- ended up mad at herself, since she spilled some on her netbook).
Looking forward to hearing good news from y'all,
CelebrateDiverity

Our son also has chores he has to do. He also does his own laundry and he pays rent. He gets SSI for his disability. He may be more severe than your son. Since he has been taking the Welbutrin, he has been sleeping less and he's more likely to join in with the rest of the family. He would, however, if we let him, spend all of his time on the internet, video games, his cell phone, watching TV. He knows that we mean business when we put limits on him. We did have him move once before. He is happy to be back. Perhaps there is a family member that would take him in for a bit, to see the other side of the world?