how do you know when to discipline your child?

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my son who is five was diagnosed a few weeks ago with aspergers so i am new with all of this he started making noises and doing weird hand motions at age two when we talked to the doctors about this they said it was twitches or tics they said he would grow out of it but he never did as he got older they got worse we also noticed when he was around other children he kept to himself he didnt want to play with them he was our first child and he didnt have any children around his age to play with so we thought this was normal all his symptoms got worse as he got older we had a little girl when andrew was 2 but nothing changed andrew is 5 now he started school this year his kindergarten teacher thought andrews behavior was unusual so she talked to the special ed. teacher and they got someone to come out and evaluate andrew this is when he was diagnosed with aspergers.my question is how do you know what they know is right or wrong andrew has outburst some temper tantrums and other behavior issues how do you know if this is to get your attention or if he just dont know better his sister is 3 now and she gets punished for those actions how do you explain to a 3 year old that her brother is different and explain why she gets punished but her brother doesn't its very aggravating not to have answers to all these questions

It's really none of her business. Sounds harsh but I wasn't made aware of my brother's punishments and I was very embarassed when he knew about mine.
You need to separate the meltdown/tantrum from any negative actions he does. Like, I wouldn't punish a child for having the meltdown or tantrum but for hitting a person, breaking something that he knows he's not supposed to.
He needs to know when it's okay to raise his voice and when it's not okay. He needs to have destress time too.
If your son is verbal, you need to ask him why he is "excited" or whatever it is that he's doing. He needs to be taught ways to cope with what is bothering him.
BTW, punish is not such a good word, teaching is better. He needs boundaries.

Personally I don't believe either child should be punished. I subscribe and heartily endorse a system of teaching called "positive discipline". I took a workshop for it and it really makes sense for me. I felt a great relief taking it and wished I'd taken it 3 years earlier, when my six year old really started acting up. One of the concepts that really resonated with me is that we learn when we feel good, not when we are made to feel bad. It is a mistaken idea that in order to learn something a child must be made to feel bad.

Google it, there are plenty of books and seminars on it.

I don't agree with this statement. I punish my child when he does something he knows is wrong! if he destroys something just because he is bored and not really thinking of what he is doing other I will punish him. he suffers the consequences of his bad choices. my son is 9 and he has no ill effects from being punished.. yes the term might be old fashioned and give you the memories of parents beating their child because they acted up or was disrespectful to an elder.. my idea of punish is taking away video games for an allotted period of time or taking away TV etc. I never hit my child to teach him who is boss..

I let my son VEG when he is on overload. and I refuse to punish him when he has an melt down that he can not control. as a parent I know when my son has had enough. or any change in his school routine. i think the main thing is for a parent to know when he has had enough and let him have the melt downs so he can express some anger and frustration. of course minus hurting people, animals or objects.

thanks to every one for your input every one has been helpful it is so nice to have this web site and to have people who you can relate too and who are going through some of the same things me and my children are hope to keep hearing from every one and again thanks so much for writing

It's not that I don't beleive in "punishment" but with my son it seems pointless - it just doesn't work the way it does with my other kids. When he was three, we took him inside (time out) every time he hit some one. It the end he would hit some one then run inside the house all on his own - we had "trained" him to. But it didn't change his behaviour or make him understand why you shouldn't hit.
Also, we gave up yelling. It had no affect, hurt my son's ears, and made him more out of control. I try not to yell at my other kids either - I reserve it for when I'm really mad at them. Otherwise you have to keep yelling louder and louder to get the same reaction . We take away TV, computer ect. from our NT son, which is very effective. It doesn't work for my autistic son.
Now, as much as possible, we avoid conflict by structuring his day and avoiding situations we know will cause conflict - situations that overload him. Also, we reinforce positive behavior and ignore negative behavior - and yes, people who don't know us and see us in public probably think we are "slack" parents, but we know what we are doing is most effective for our son.
My oldest child is 9, and he is starting to understand what autism is and why we treat our children so differently. I try to be honest with him, and say I know it doesn't seem "fair" and indeed isn't fair at times!
I think a three year old will start noticing that her big brother is a little different than other 5 year plds. I don't think a three year old can process long explanations, but should know her brother has Aspergers, and that kids are different and have different rules. End of discussion. As she grows older, she will be able to understand more.

thanks katrine
i can relate to just about every thing you said nothing seems to work with andrew every thing we try seems to cause a melt down or make the situation worse and we end up in tears or a screaming match and like i said before i am new at all this so i did not know how important structure and a routine or schedule is for an autistic kid but i have been talking TO OTHERS AND READING AS MUCH AS I CAN FIND ON IT i will be going to a support group starting next week so maybe i will get some good info there thanks so much

You're welcome - its really hard to have an autistic kid, but at least when you've got the diagnosis, you can start to understand "how they tick" and use other peoples experiences of what works. It's so frustrating otherwize. Good luck - I hope you find some good resources and seminars and that things work out for you!

ryan'sjoy-it may be semantics, language or a in fact a difference in perspective. We have "consequences" for "bad behavior". I in fact mentioned those examples. I don't care for the word "punish" though, because it connotes;
"you did something bad=punishment"
Instead, we "teach" my son how to keep his privileges. He gets reminders how to keep them and then he loses them if he "makes the wrong choice". It serves several purposes. One it enforces positive behavior that he may already be doing. Two, it is a hands-on approach that he directly feels the effects of. Three, he may quickly (or eventually) learn that hurting, yelling, isn't how he will get his way.
I actually give him reminders when he has done something right. "Did you notice how you asked nicely? Thanks, that's great. We'll have to tell Dad about your great afternoon"

This is one of the big problems that we fought with the last school. it didn't matter that we had consequences in place for "bad behavior", the principal wanted him to be publicly and uniformly "punished", like the other kids.

" my idea of punish is taking away video games for an allotted period of time or taking away TV etc. I never hit my child to teach him who is boss.. "

You sound like you do the same things we do. We just word things differently. Having video games taken away is the most serious of consequences. I also agree with teaching when things are going good. I have a social skills textbook and I go over lessons like regular homework or storytime.

I resonate with your perspective. I have always referred to my own needs in regard to behavior change as "educate don't reprimand".

I think there are two factors involved, one is comprehension, the other is emotional.

For myself, especially when I was under 20, emotionally my reaction to a reprimand was to rebel. That is one of my 6 year olds reactions now.

The other is comprehension, which I believe has relevence to anyone but especially to someone with AS.

The AS group I just went to almost universally described the importance of forming everything in the positive. I could see that clearly starting when my son was under 2. Whenever I said don't run, or don't go, or don't "any action", all he heard was the action part, not the negation part. He would always do what ever the verb in the sentence was. Someone in the group described how their son couldn't get, "don't chew with your mouth open", but he could get "put your lips together and chew".

My AS son is 6 and he was also 5 when he was Dx. We do not punish the meltdowns/tantrums, but we do what we can to prevent them. We have set up a "quiet spot" in my son's room, where he has a bean bag to sit/lay on and there is a book shelf beside it where he can look at a book or whatever. We call it his "hiding place" and he knows he can go there if he is starting to get upset or frustrated. Because, as you probably already know, once he is upset there is no reasoning with him and it makes us frustrated and then that makes an already bad situation worse. His hiding place is NOT a time-out place. For whatever reason time-outs have always worked for my son most of the time but we do that elsewhere. We do have a reward system set in place that OT helped us with, We have a set of "house rules" posted that he can see and read and if he breaks one of these rules he has to take down a popsicle stick (we have 8 set up in a pocket thingy I made). At the end of the day he gets whatever reward according to how many sticks he has left. for example 5 minutes of computer/game time for every stick left. This is working well enough so far. Also, I was having trouble with keeping his day structured so the #1 best thing we have done with him is to write out a schedule for him every day (because each day is different). He gets to help write it out so it is a balance of things I want him to do and he gets to pick out some things for himself. Good luck, I know every day is a challenge! I wish I would have found this website back when we were first getting our Dx. Best of luck to you! Blessings!

thanks again for every ones advice i think its all good advice i guess it just depends on what works for your own individual child autistic or not every child is different and unique in their own way and they respond to different parenting techniques i think now that i am learning more about aspergers i will learn more about Andrew and the way he "tics" and how we can help him through his difficult and trying times thanks so very much

When I take care of my brothers I make them stay in their room when they can't behave. Don't think of it as punishment, but rather as enforcing rules.

many things for us are still trial and error....we've found some things to be effective, and other things just aren't. when my aspie son was little, i could tell him to go to his room until he could calm down and re-join the activity....he'd go with some gentle assurance , and then return to the activity when he was calmer ( this took a LONG time to help him learn what "calmer" meant). Now that he's 15, he just wants to stay and re-engage everyone and refuses to back down from any situation. we're still trying to figure out what to do~sometimes we can get him to go to his room to calm down, but other times he just stubbornly refuses to leave.

we have tried the time out in the room but for us it makes the situation worse he just gets more out of control some days some things work and some days they dont you can never tell with andrew this morning when getting ready for school he had issues with brushing his teeth we almost never have problems brushing his teeth but for some reason we had some this morning
no melt down or anything just some hesitation and raising his voice but there are some days that go by no problem

Hi there!!

My son, Casey, who is 10 years old was also diagnosed around age 5, maybe 4. ANyway, I too thought everything was normal because he was my first and I had nothing to compare him to. He would have HORRIBLE outbursts and tantrums! He was kicked out of 5 different preschools. It took freaking ALOTof patience and understanding. I am now proud to say he is a 10 year old fifth grader in ALL mainstream classes. I really can honestly tell you the BIGGEST thing you can do for your son is to always be a known presence!! !! !! !! !! I would call for parent/teacher conferences (still do) and discuss Casey's behavior. You are your son's ONLY advocate. Casey thinks he is the special one because he has Asperger's. I tell him we are all weird, and to have all people the same would be horribly boring!! !! Casey's school probably gets sick and tired of hearing my voice on the phone and seeing my face. By no means am I that overbearing mother, but I do play a VERY ACTIVE role. I have his teacher's email address at the school and if I have any questions and/or concerns I just email.

My other son, Hunter, used to get somewhat aggravated with the differences between him and his brother. But, really it balances out. For example, my youngest son plays baseball. During baseball season we're down at the fields every Saturday. Well, Casey loves him some nachos. So, he knows that every Saturday he can have nachos at the ball field. VIOLA'! ! They're both happy!! !! !! !!