New Problems with our Teen

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My wife has just texted to advise that she came home from work around 11am this school Monday and there were suspicious indications eg dog in a somewhat agitated state and our seventeen year old son's laptop left on the table. So she went to his room and found him hiding there in the wardrobe (!)

This is the second time (at least that we are aware of, although I expect that there may have been more instances) that he has pretended to go to school, but has not. Last Monday he did the same, claiming then that was ill and had a headache. We thought he might have had a reaction from forgetting to take his Ritalin the day before and let him off then, although I think my wife took him in to school for the afternoon sessions. My wife has taken him back to school today again.

Really, this is enough to make you tear your hair out. I do feel angry about this, because, although he clearly has a mental affliction, he has got to know that not going in to school is wrong. (That is incidentally the test for liability in criminal situations - MNagten rules).

When he breaks the rules he does not even do it properly eg he was easily found out by his mother with the incident today, and a month back he blatantly plagiarised large parts of an essay, but did it in an unskilful way that was very quickly obvious.

For about the past month we have been working him harder to try and deal with his extremely weak academic performance this school year, which is three quarters through. So he has been doing more work than the almost nothing he had been getting away with previously. But certainly he is not being worked very hard from an objective NT standpoint. (Our self-motivated NT daughter is probably putting in two or three times as many work hours per week). Each weekday we have made him write down all the work he has to do in his diary and discuss that with his mother each morning. With some difficulty we have got him to attend about half of his free spells at school at the counsellor's office. At night his mother is overseeing his homework and on the weekends I have been overseeing his work. I think he did about an hour's work on Saturday and about 3 1/2 hours on Sunday. We are having to plan all his work and then check that he does it, which is a time consuming exercise. Not a good look for a seventeen year old but if that was not done, he would do nothing at all. But he has I been making some progress in getting his marks at least to a passing level and catching up his work backlog.

I am wondering if his recent attempts at avoiding school have something to do with the Ritalin. (He has been variously diagnosed ADD-inattention and ASD). He had started to ask some questions about the world around him, which he had not done when off Ritalin, and it may possibly be that the Ritalin has made him aware of how bad in situation is. Then his avoidant behavior kicks in.

We are going to have a family dinner this evening and passively and non-aggressively ask him what is wrong and what needs to be done. He unfortunately does not seem to confide in or indeed communicate much with either parent, which may be a function of my occasional anger at his actions and my wife's somewhat inconsistent parenting at times (she is schizophrenic and before she started her latest medication eg one day took him four hours drive away to her parents under the guise of taking him to school). I will need to completely bite my tongue as to this latest incident as it is clear that our son does have big problems coping, and the more I examine the issue, the more it is clear to me that he is at least moderately disabled (although this is not really evident on the surface).

Any comments welcome (including if need be criticism of my parenting, if that's felt appropriate).

I'd like to point out that most parents find making their 17 year old do anything absolutely futile unless they can leverage driving against them, so that he does mind to the degree he does (which is still actually rather significant) indicates he still sees you and your wife as strong authority figures in his life.

I think it would be worth it to get your son additional counseling if he doesn't already have it, to figure out what is going on with him. I don't mean to scare you but having a parent who is schizophrenic increases one's chances of developing or having a schizophrenia spectrum disorder. Schizophrenia itself tends to develop in the late teens or early adulthood for males and can be proceeded by a prodromal phase. It's thought now though that stress hormones play a large part in the development of the disorder and that it can be prevented by reducing stress, and occasionally the temporary administration of antipsychotic medication.

There are also schizophrenia spectrum disorders that don't involve psychosis but involve strange ideas or a certain degree of social paranoia, such as schizotypal personality disorder, or schizoid personality disorder. The latter can mimic Asperger's Syndrome to some degree, as can latent or prodromal stage of schizophrenia.

I'm not saying this is your son's issue but it's just something to be aware of.

@chronos

My biggest fear is that he will develop schizophrenia, although it has to be said that my schizophrenic wife is coping much better with life that he is at the moment (eg she has some friends, has part time jobs, is organised etc). I agree he is moving into the risk period of his life for developing this. It is a risk I am certainly aware of. (The statistical risk is about one in ten).

He is more like a twelve year old in a lot of ways than a seventeen year old. He remains quite obedient to both his mother and father which is one of the good things that we thought would enable us to get him through this school year academically.

Although he does not communicate well with his parents at all, I do not think he has any delusional thinking of any sort. He has never seemed to understand the world properly and maybe has always lived in his own world (perhaps a little less when he had friends in junior school). I do not think he has a schizotypal personality. It is possible that he has some elements of a schizoid personality. He definitely seems to have strong elements of an avoidant personality.

On googling prodromal schizophrenia I came across the following possible signs of this at this site: http://blogs.plos.org/neuroanthropology ... me-part-1/

■Do you daydream a lot or find yourself preoccupied with stories, fantasies, or ideas?
■Do you think others ever say that your interests are unusual or that you are eccentric?
■Do familiar people or surroundings ever seem strange? Confusing? Unreal? Not a part of the living world? Alien? Inhuman?
■Have you ever felt that you might not actually exist? Do you ever think that the world might not exist?

I think our son would only answer yes to the first question, but I will ask him tonight

Aspie or not, you can't expect someone to act his age when you don't treat him his age. It's obvious he hates school, or at least THIS school, and the schoolwork that comes with it. Your acknowledgement of his conditions belies your obvious opinion that he's simply lazy. Maybe he is, but I'm sure there's far more at work here. Is he bullied and/or teased at school, making him hate being there? Do the many hours of homework and studying actually help him learn what he needs to learn, or is he just staring at pages not really comprehending them? Do his teachers know and understand he's not like the other students? Has he already tried to tell you what bothers him about school and life, only for you to dismiss it as 'silly' or 'childish' or 'trifling'? If it causes real stress, then that makes it a real problem.

I guess what I'm saying that you obviously haven't found the root of the issue here, and you're not going to until you change your perspective regarding your son. He doesn't think like you, he never has and he never will.

@sacrip

A parent can't treat a child as someone responsible or "his age" if he acts without responsibility. From an NT perspective our child is incredibly irresponsible. I think given his disability he is somewhat irresponsible.

I don't think it is obvious he hates this school. It is a large kinda laid back school (eg no uniforms which is very unusual here). When asked he has said that he quite likes the school. We got him into the school with some difficulty because we are out of zone, but his friends (then) were going to the school. I do not think he has been the subject of bullying at his high school (unlike when he was in junior school).

He does probably at least dislike the subjects because he has always only seemed interested in doing what he wants, his particular interests, but that's not the way the world works. I know he is disabled but yes, I do also think he is lazy and wants to avoid dealing with issues. He has control over that. That stated, I obviously do not just think he is lazy. For starters he does not seem to have insight into how the world works, and secondly he has real difficulties with academic work. That stated, he is told repeatedly by his parents what is what, and in the present instance has deliberately chosen to do the wrong thing.

He does not really do "many" hours of homework - as I noted in my post his NT sister probably works two or three times as long per week than him. Yes, the school qualifications do matter, for obvious reasons (unless he is to live the life of a dole bludger). He does comprehend schoolwork although his comprehension time is very slow; we make allowances for that.

His teachers are well aware that he has a disability; some are better than others about this. He has a very good school counsellor who liaises with us, him and the teachers. My wife is constantly communicating with the counsellor and the teachers.

He has never tried to tell us what bothers him about school; in fact when asked he has said his school is ok. We have not dismissed anything he has said as "childish", and I've said many times for him to communicate any problems he may be having. I have quite often mentioned difficulties in my childhood to try and get him to open up, but he does not do so. We will be trying again tonight.

I think you are right in some sense that we have not gotten to the root of the issue, otherwise why would our child engage in such an action as not going to school and hiding away. But that is not due to not trying to empathise with his different modes of thought.

@Chronos - thanks for your comment; yes ...

From http://www.healthcentral.com/schizophre ... arly-phase

"The prodrome phase usually occurs one to two years before the onset of psychotic symptoms (ex: hallucinations, paranoid delusions) in schizophrenia. The symptoms people usually have during this time aren’t very specific. Usually people report symptoms of anxiety, social isolation, difficulty making choices, and problems with concentration and attention. It is late in the prodromal phase that the positive symptoms of schizophrenia begin to emerge".

and

"The last prodromal subgroup is the so called ‘genetic risk plus functional deterioration’ group (G/D). These people are not currently psychotic but have ... a parent, sibling, or child that has been diagnosed with a psychotic disorder. They are considered part of this subgroup if in the past year they have had substantial declines in work, school, relationships, or general functionality in daily life.

Many times people see a doctor during the prodrome phase because of some of these disturbing symptoms. The problem is that these symptoms exist in many psychiatric and medical conditions. The situation can be confusing for both patients and doctors. Many people with schizophrenia are diagnosed with something else during the prodrome phase. Social withdrawal, unusual behavior, and frequent reprimands or absences from work and school are all red flags that may signify the beginning of schizophrenia".

I do not think there is any particular change in our son's behavior, in essence, so think it most unlikely this is a prodromal phase of schizophrenia, or at least I hope that is the case.

Interestingly enough, on thinking about it, my wife did not show prodromal signs of schizophrenia (as indicated in the posts above) before she developed the illness some twenty years ago.

As a separate issue I have just wondered if my wife has in some ways perhaps been too easy on our son, eg giving him rewards regardless of whether he did the right thing or not. She has perhaps slightly favored our son given his difficulties. When she was reading a text to our son, I noticed she would ask him a question, then when he would not answer it, would answer it herself and our son would say "right" or something like that. It took my intervention to show that our son had not understood the point at all. On her own my wife did not seem to see our son's maladaptive responses (ie saying he understood something when he did not).

Still, we are united in trying to find some solutions for our son, so that he can hopefully both achieve and be happier (and learn to communicate his difficulties).

Hi Hoegaandit (baie goed dankie )

You've said he's not particularly academic, well I'm not sure what kind of a school he goes to, do they offer subjects like metal work, wood work, home economics ,technical drawing, or other more hands on stuff? I realise at 17 it's a bit late to be changing subjects, but perhaps he's the kind of kid who's going to fare better with practical type of employment eventually. My daughter, 13 has begun high school now in Ireland and has 3 such subjects which I feel are a neccessary part of helping her day be less stressful at school. They're just more chilled out classes generally. Even so she hates school and I'm aware school is highly stressful for her. To be honest I'm taking it day by day with her, monitoring the stress levels, and doing what I can where I can to reduce it.
What does you boy love doing at all, whether out of school or in school?

If I understand you correctly - your son is seventeen?

If that is the case - can I ask how he has coped with school/school work in the teen years up to now.

Has he always had the problems you describe or is this relatively new?

Hi catbalou (Lee Marvin?)

Alhoewel ek eintlik engelsprekend is, "lovelyboy" hier is afrikaansprekend. (Although I'm actually English speaking, "lovelyboy" here is Afrikaans speaking).

We are having to review what he is capable of. In fact his subject choices for next year have to be in this week. I've tried to keep the more academic door open through subject choices, but I don't think it is working. Subjects like Classics, which seemed to me an easy option, as it is just basically rote learning, seem too hard for him. We were reading some chapters of The Odyssey over the weekend starting with the Sparknotes summaries. These summaries were in general too hard for him to understand, let alone the text itself. He is doing Media Studies, as he has an interest in film. I think the little film he made was of an acceptable quality, or better, but he has not submitted adequate supporting work, and seems unable to easily grasp the concept of eg Hollywood conventions in musicals or westerns ie analyse the relevant material. Unless there is some radical improvement it is becoming clear to me that he would be completely unable to cope with the academic requirements of a university.

It is possible in our subject choices next year to shift him over to basic courses, some of which might be of use (eg basic budgeting etc) and some of which wouldn't (eg tourism). Woodwork or some such is an outer possibility although I would be concerned he would not be safe with the equipment. The way things are going this would probably effectively permanently exclude him from any university career, but maybe that is what we will have to accept. I think with a major effort from his parents we could perhaps get him to scrape through the bulk of his art/graphics/low level academic courses this and next year (and it is apparently conceptually possible for him to stay an extra year on at school).

He is a very talented cartoonist, but he has seemingly largely lost interest in that and also he has not parlayed that talent into any success in Art or Graphics (both of which he may or may not pass this year).

The counsellor had suggested we consider him dropping one of his courses this year, so we will have to consider that, the way things are going.

I guess our boy loves mucking about on the internet and watching some comedy movies (over and over). Occasionally he draws. He does not seem to have other interests.

Like you we are having to take it day by day. Best of luck with your daughter; unfortunately we are finding the last two years of school are proving extremely difficult for our son.

@AspergerFiction

It is only in the last three years of school here that students are externally assessed (at least in part). So, although I think our son has had difficulties from day one (eg he is completely hopeless even in basic arithmetic), it is only in the last year or so that he has been "found out".

Well as an update his mother and I had a chat with our son this evening where we tried to get some answers. Basically I think our son is happy enough at his school and confirmed he is not bullied. He said the reason why he had not gone to school today was because he is stressed by the workload and with the extra work he has been doing has not had time to prepare himself with sports facts to be able to converse with his classmates. (This objectively makes little sense as I pointed out that over the weekend he would have been awake say 30 hours and only worked or had other commitments for about five or six of those hours; also he was uninterested when I said I could give him some basic facts about a major sporting event currently here (RWC); however that was his response, and obviously I need to try and listen to him).

I and his mother stressed that we (and the school counsellor) are here to support him, and he said he accepted that. We asked about problems he had with his parents and he said he finds me (dad) a little threatening sometimes and also I speak too slowly sometimes. He does not like it when his mother interrupts. We asked him about how he sees his world and he could not answer that. We emphasised that problems can sometimes seem too daunting and that nothing is achieved from running away from them. Instead you have to break the problem down into manageable chunks. I said that he must go to someone and seek help when he has problems, whether me, his mother or the school counsellor. He seemed slighly happier at the end of our meeting.

There is a possibility that he has been staying up late as he has been taking his new laptop to his bedroom when going to bed. So it is possible that some small silly thing like that has been triggering the latest problems.

As a matter of interest, in relation to the questions relating to incipient schizophrenia, he answered as follows:

■Do you daydream a lot or find yourself preoccupied with stories, fantasies, or ideas? Yes
■Do you think others ever say that your interests are unusual or that you are eccentric? No
■Do familiar people or surroundings ever seem strange? Confusing? Unreal? Not a part of the living world? Alien? Inhuman? No
■Have you ever felt that you might not actually exist? Do you ever think that the world might not exist? Yes

While I am surprised at the last answer, I still doubt that there are any signs of schizophrenia as opposed to eg ASD.

His school counsellor has been advised by my wife about the wardrobe incident, and I understand is looking at the school providing counselling to him.

We will see ...

Hi
Well think Lee Marvin was in that movie but it's actually from a hobie cat we had long ago in my childhood.....Anyway (I'm english speaking too btw.)

With his cartooning was it free hand or computer software? I'm only asking because if he is talented in that area thats the way to go, something that he's good at and possibly there'll be employment out of it, who knows. Theres lots of good stuff on the market. Actually my daughter has recently become intrested in this so I'm checking it out, managed to download some free stuff from Daz studio 4 , but theres heaps of stuff apparently anim8tor being another, well I'm not the expert here so dont know more names only it might be something he'd be into . Sorry if this is off track a bit. But also make it easy kids soft ware, not the complex stuff, because you've said he's more like 12, and it must be pleasurable, not too hard.
Forget the classics, basically forget the stuff that YOU enjoy and find easy. I have realised none of what I love and enjoy is what my daughter loves, her tastes are light years away from mine, and it's been a hard thing to accept because I just want her to get the same pleasure from stuff that I got/get. Then I think, why, well because we'd have a point of connection, something to share, but actually your point of connection must be what THEY'RE into.
I'm rambling a bit , sorry.
It's hard , I know. My over all feeling and understanding from what you've said is, he's too stressed. I'm sure you know this already.

Lots of kids in their late teens skip classes and leave, avoid or refuse to go to school. Add academic problems and stress, and I don't think it's surprising he doesn't want to go.
He does know that it is wrong; that is why he is hiding. But his actions are a plea for help and support. I sense that you are resentful and angry towards him, rather than an effort to empathize and understand. If he had a more visible and easily diagnosed condition such as Down's Syndrome you wouldn't be tearing out your hair with frustration, believing he is irresponsible, and so on. You would know that this was just too much for him. He needs to know you are on his team and will do what is needed to help with his anxiety. Anxiety and depression are common in ASD kids, and they need to know that someone can work through it with them.
If he's not dx, I think he should be; if he is, I think the school should be reminded of their need to make accomodations and modifications. Regardless, though, expressing unconditional love and devotion to the cause of helping him will make a big difference.
J.