I have a 12 yrs old functioning autistic step daughter

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I think what you need to remember when dealing with your daughter is that she may be understanding situations differently from you - in fact, she may be misunderstanding situations completely. If she's reacting out of confusion, laying down the law is not going to make her change her behavior.

Kids on the spectrum often don't pick up on or communicate social cues, and a lot of things, from lying to stealing to bullying are acceptable in some situations but not in others. NT kids - and parents - do all of these things all the time. Think about the last time you told a "white lie" to save someone's feelings. Or you "borrowed" a neighbor's tools. Or maybe made a rude comment or gesture when driving in a car. A lot of kids on the spectrum can't differentiate between a hurtful, harmful lie and a little social lubrication - or the implied permission of a neighbor you can borrow from, and stealing - or the private obscene gesture versus a public one.

Understanding your daughter's perspective is critical to helping her change her behavior. Yes, she needs to understand that actions have consequences - but she has to understand the actions first.

Mom sparky is absolutely right. What you might be missing in this situation is that she PERCEIVES she is the one being bullied. My daughter often believes people hate her or mean to her because she cannot understand the subtle nuances to their language. So they may be joking around but she takes it quite seriously.

And you are right, it is a spectrum and OF COURSE autistic children can lie. It is not the norm but I have found my daughter can lie if it is to avoid something unpleasant. She is not a good liar, not at all, because she does't have the ability to "act". However, there is a great chance that she is not lying and that her perception of events is quite different.

You are still standing by this need for social justice within your household. Let me say this: there will never be social justice for your step daughter. You have to let go of this need for her to live by the standard set forth. She might not have the capability to understand the right thing to do every time. You have to be understanding and guide her in a supportive fashion. You might want to pick up the book The Explosive Child because it has techniques to deal with these kids in a way called collaborative problem solving. You identify with their reasoning and then guide them to an alternate solution.

But one thing is certain, by being authoritarian with her you are making her feel more like an outsider. And as kids generally not do well with a "do it because I said so" dictate. You will get better results by being a supporter and fan of hers and lovingly guiding her to better behavior. It's hard-I know it is so hard! But the parents here have been there done that and have tried typical disciplinary techniques will tell you it just doesn't work with our kids. So you'll need to step away from the attitude that if your other kids do it then so should she.

@momsparky. I am working on a paradigm shift. It is tough, but I am working on it. Thank you for your comments.

@mama to grace. I will get this book. I am working on not being the authority in house. Past two days i havent asserted myself. Kinda lets them do whats necessary without intervening. Figured to make her feel comfortable. I really haven't said much to her. She hasn't said much to me. It's weird, I got a good morning, a hello, and lucky if I get a good night.

I am trying. There have been things done, or not done, that normally I would have said something about. But, I didn't.

Guess I am trying to restart our "relationship".

Please check out this web site http://www.templegrandin.com/templegrandinbooks.html
You seem to me to be one of those guys who thinks you know everything. If you are not autistic, you DONT KNOW!
You have no idea what type of world this girl is living in right now. She has a man in her house who is foreign to her, what she is doing is defense mechanisms.
The person who said they can see in your posts that you seem to dislike this child and seem to think you have her all figured out. Shes a liar and a manipulator, ect.....maybe she is just scared, did you ever think of that?
As an person with Asperger's who remembers her childhood very vividly I was attacked, punished and called a liar all the time. I did not make eye contact, this made me a liar. I once dropped my pencil under my chair in school, it was a purple pencil with my teeth marks all over it. The boy behind me picked it up and said it was his. I knew that pencil was mine of course so I argued with him, we were sent to the principals office and I was terrified but I didnt show that because I didnt know how.
I found out, only a few years ago, that I do not typically outwardly show my feelings, which is also why I laugh or smile at inappropriate times. The principal (who I could not look at because I was scared) asked me "what color was the last pencil you had?".....being a logical thinker I thought he meant the pencil I had before the purple because, duh, he knew what color the pencil was he was holding it, so I said my last pencil was yellow. He dismissed me as a liar because I would not look at him and because the pencil was purple. I was upset and confused. I went home and screamed and yelled at my Mom because she made meatloaf for dinner because I had no other way of expressing myself.....understand?

We are different and yes we can lie but we really seriously suck at it. We can sometimes be like typical kids and want something so badly that we could lie for it and we also believe everything should be even and fair and if a sibling has more money that would seem very unfair. We like things to be orderly (even if our order looks like a mess to you). You need to help her to understand that sometimes some people have more than you do. It may be a hard concept for her.

I hope that you read about Dr. Temple Grandin and get one of her books or Tony Attwood. Please learn about this kid because you are labeling her from the outside. I dont care what you read, whatever it was you read it did not stick in your head or you read something wrong. I hope for your families sake that you figure something out....also dont forget about her sensory needs. Sometimes if a kids sensory system is thrown off it can screw up everything. I still freak out with sensory overload and you need to be aware of that. It feels like you are a bottle of soda and someone shook you up!

Kamikaze6rr, it does take a huge paradigm shift, and I know you are trying. You would have given up on us and thread a while ago if you weren’t at some level open to it. But, yes, it is huge and I understand that large parts of you are going to fight it simply out of instinct, because that would be normal, too. I do hope you’ll ride it out with us because I really do believe in the process you will get from parents here, and have seen it made so much difference so many times.

I have an 11 year old NT daughter and a 14 year old ASD son. I have posted a few times here that I consider myself extremely lucky not to have had the ASD in my daughter, because pre-teen daughters are a whole difficult ballgame all by themselves. The social games girls play with each other at school are exhausting just to listen to, much less live through, and I seriously wonder at times how any ASD girl gets through it. The crap girls pull on each other is so dang subtle, and the adults around these kids are unable to see the instigation. Trust me, the girls your stepdaughter goes to school with know EXACTLY how to get on her nerves or confuse her and get her to react, and many preteen girls think it is “all in good fun” to do just that.

Since the recent posts are about lying, I’ll throw in my two cents there, first: it is very easy for an AS child to learn that there is no value in the truth, despite how often adults say they value truth. As momsparky pointed out, one part of that problem is how often we expect children for social reasons to not tell the full-on truth. And as liloleme has pointed out, another part of that problem is how someone with AS perceives and uses language and non-verbal communication. After enough failures in this area, an AS child may well give up and resort to convenience. I am not ready, from your descriptions, to jump to the conclusion that your step daughter has gotten that far; I think she is probably is still in the “confused” stage. In which case, as long as you are breaking these conversations down and clarifying carefully the components as to what the facts are and what the better response would be, you can still establish enough trust to make progress. That is the process I would recommend, to non-judgmentally break things down with her, get into the details and nuance, to find understanding.

As for some of the rules, like the belt rule, one factor I don’t recall really being emphasized is simply how difficult it is, at this age, to remember everything in the morning. Most AS kids have difficulty with what is known as executive function, and middle school is, unfortunately, ALL about executive function. The list of what kid must remember in the morning is staggering! We’ve resorted to a bold list right by the exit door of everything that needs to be checked before leaving. Don't put this onto her, that she should program a reminder, just help her. It is quite possible that your step daughter wants to follow the belt rule, especially if not doing so gets her teased, and simply forgets. In which case visuals around the house will be helpful.

But, if that is not the problem, if she is having trouble with it as a fashion or grooming or comfort choice, I honestly would let go of that rule. Your step daughter is at an age where some things need to get learned the hard way, and where she needs to test out the power of her own choices while figuring out her own identity. As a parent, I much, much prefer my kids do that over little things like fashion and grooming and comfort choices than big things like illegal drugs or other risky behavior. It is something they NEED to do in one way or another, I’ve noticed, so letting a few things “be” is actually wise.

One thing to be aware of is that many AS kids will get more and more insistent on getting their way the more everything else around them feels like it is spinning out of their control. For those kids, there is a NEED to feel order and predictability, and when they don’t feel that, they will instinctively try to force it wherever they can. I’ve learned over the years that if my son gets stubborn and demanding, it means he’s been under stress, and the best way to resolve the demands is to figure out what has caused the stress and mitigate that. I will stop everything and ask him, “you seem really stressed out. Can we figure that out first?”

My (probably) NT daughter can get downright emotionally abusive when her world is spinning out of control, and I’ve learned that for her she needs things to come to inevitable head so she can break down and have a good crying fit, just get it all out. With her, I can say something along the lines of “I’m not going to do this. If you need to cry, cry. If you need to punch out a pillow, go punch out a pillow.”

As for attitude, preteen girls spread that around like a disease. That is how they talk to each other, even their best friends, it seems. I find it most effective just to ignore it. If that is how my daughter feels she needs to express herself, so be it, as long as she isn’t getting abusive with it. It can help, depending on the situation, to calmly and non-judgmentally repeat in proper English what you think they are trying to say; it can sometimes shift the conversation tone.

I think the last thing I wanted to point out is that many people with ASD have issues with what is called theory of mind. That means they honestly don’t know how something is perceived by others, or that others can have different experience or knowledge than they do. I remember discussing personal space with my son in elementary school, because he was getting so upset when this one girl let a tiny corner of her paper touch his desk. Turned out his books and things were running well into another girl’s desk, and she was sweet enough to him extend like that, but no matter how hard I tried to explain it, he simply could not see this other person’s intrusion as being anything like the way his things extended. It was a very eye opening conversation.

I’ve found, over the years, I’ve had to have many very long and repetitive conversations on issues like that, trying from multiple angles to get him to see my point. That sort of thing needs to be broken down into tiny parts and explained in detail, and even then he may or may not be ready to absorb that concept. It definitely causes issues between him and his sister, and there isn’t always much that can be done about it. Ultimately, they both have their quirks and unique needs, and I remind them both of that when they get intolerant of the other’s.

I do think I’ve done right by my AS son, using the kinds of parenting techniques suggested by various posters in this thread. He is happy, an excellent student (finally figuring it out after years of rough roads), smart ( that he always was, but now he knows how to use it in a school setting), honest, not at all interested in risky teen behavior, someone adults want to put into leadership positions, and a really loving son. Understanding him from the inside out and adapting to him WORKED. I can’t begin to tell you how much that one paradigm shift we made years and years ago changed EVERYTHING.

It is tax season and I am a CPA or I would try to delve into all this more with you, but hopefully these notes when combined with the other posts in this thread and the books recommended by others will help you get on the right path with your step-daughter. We’ve seen a lot of success stories here, and can’t wait to hear about yours.

Ok a number of days have passed since i have posted up.
I have dialed it down a lot and trying to provide a "safe" and comfortable home for her right now.
No confrontations. if she does something incorrectly i let her mom deal with it.
I have taken a back seat to a lot.
I have come to the realization that this will be a tough road. but i am up for it.
I must watch more instead of being in the middle.
Also i have hobby so i can work off frustration. bike riding sometimes 100 miles a day.

she appears to be getting more comfortable. i guess

pretty much if i say nothing to her she just bypasses me during the day and waits till her mom is there.

she doesn't ask me for anything. she will ask her mom any questions and permissions for like 4 days ahead. So she doesn't have to ask me anything.

If I see her doing something and even question it, she will interrupt me and say" momma said"

i am trying real hard not to feel like i am getting played like a sucker by this child.

Ok. another thing i mud get off my chest is that when i joined this board i wanted help. thank you to those who have.. and no thanks to those that just harshly criticized and judged.

I AM NOT AUTISTIC and don't imagine to be or front to be. thats why i am here. i believe i am a good father given a different situation. but i love my fiancé and her children and i am just trying to learn how to be a better person and parent for everyone.

I also understand loving me as my fiancé will become tougher if i can't find ways to be that father my stepdaughter needs me to be.

I am highly competitive and WILL NOT be beaten by my own inflexibility to this.

So those that want to judge, judge. its ok i am strong enough to deal with you.

Those of us who ARE Autistic are painfully aware that you are not. You need to understand that there are Autistic people on this site and some of them that have commented to you are young and have dealt with hard judgement....we are judged neverly every day of our lives.

Why do you do that? Why cant you be like your brother? Why dont you listen? Why cant you remember? Why are you so annoying? Why cant you talk about something else? Why are you such a brat?......bla bla bla. No one is judging you we are trying to help you but you dont recognize how some Autistic people talk and so you interpret it as us judging or attacking you. This is not a war, you put up a post and of course we are going to side with your step daughter when we hear some of the harmful things that we may hear during our day. She is one of our own and we understand her better than we do you so we are trying to explain her to you. Also we have no need or want to fight with you and you behave as though we are all at war and you are stronger than we are and you can handle all our perceived attacks.

Its hard for us to understand other people and sometimes even our own feelings and sometimes we are not aware that we are being rude nor how to express ourselves and our feelings. This is a learning process that will probably never end. I still say things that make people angry without meaning to. One thing I have learned in my 44 years is that people, most of the time, do not like to hear the truth. They want you to lie to them and agree with them. As I said, you should get a Temple Grandin book or they do have a movie about her life which she herself says is very accurate. The best book of hers to read is called Thinking In Pictures. She can help you to understand what it is like to BE Autistic and this is really what you need to learn.

Everyone has their issues and maybe someone else's issues are worse than yours or mine or the next door neighbor but its typically your own problems and issues that are important. It has been proven that even though we sometimes dont show the emotional pain we are in until it explodes. The emotional pain Autistic people feel is very acute which is why meltdowns can be so violent and crying or screaming can be so explosive. Sometimes we hold it in, we are like volcano's, what you see on the outside my not be what is happening on the inside until the rumbling starts. We have built in defense mechanisms to protect ourselves from these explosions, one of the big ones are not thinking about others and trying to be alone. We may only express ourselves in a more typical manner to those who we feel comfortable with and those we can trust. As Temple Grandin says we are like prey animals (animals who are preyed upon), we tend to be afraid of things many people are not and we are afraid and uncertain about these foreign people we are not comfortable with or dont know well enough until they prove themselves trustworthy or understanding. Also there are some of us, depending on age and or functioning level that are not even aware that other people have feelings at all or that they simply think like we do but chose to be mean to us. When I was little I did not understand why people or other children were mean to me. I didnt understand that I acted differently than they did until I was older.

It aint easy being green, dude! I hope things get better in your house and its good that you are putting forth such an effort but I can tell you that this is the only site that I have ever been on where I have been treated well and NOT attacked for my beliefs or my honesty....things have been pointed out to me and sometimes I get angry and then I think about it and come back and say Im sorry or explain or try to understand what I missed in the conversation. Other support sites are very narrow minded, in my opinion, and only see things one way....maybe these types of places would be better for you (being honest not mean) as you feel as though we are judging or attacking you here. The Autistic people here do not really like confrontation and for me personally when someone attacks me online I have a anxiety attack so I hope that you do not feel this way here because to me this is a nice place where I can be myself. Anxiety is my worst symptom or whatever you want to call it and Im old enough to ask for medication. I take a valium when I feel the lava building up and my hands start shaking and my stimming is not helping.

The only thing left to say is that we are who we are and we may learn things....Ive learned a lot about myself since I was diagnosed 4 years ago but we will always be Autistic so if you want to have a happy life with your family then you need to try to understand what its like to be Autistic and I dont know how hard that is but I make efforts every day to try to understand what its like to be typical. I refuse to give up things that make me feel better, like my stimming so I "look" normal to everyone else but I do try to understand typical people, how they think and how they feel. I think we are all the same in many ways but we are also different....we just need to meet halfway and accept each other for our differences. Understanding is far better than fighting, at least in my opinion.

@liloleme
Thank you for your encouraging words. The Temple Grandin movie will be here tomorrow. I am trying.
This is a process. I come from a very different upbringing than many on this board. I was always taught about strength and survival of the fittest. My view on the world is very natural and old fashioned. I don't believe in human compassion. I used to and still do a little feel that strong survive and weak die off.
I also believe that sick and weak should die so we don't keep perpetuating sickness in a species. I also believe we are wrong for trying to prevent death in a lot of cases.
But I am different.
I know this.
May feel like I am mean or cold but this is how I was raised so it is seeded deeply in my person.
But I do care about my new family so I will change. And everyone here may watch as I change. It will happen.

Wow, I hope you realize what that sounds like on this board. I really hope that you're here to learn and find help and not for some other reason - but I will offer you an answer regardless of your reason for posting.

First of all, I think most of us who come here to WrongPlanet don't perceive autism to be a weakness or sickness, but a difference: while our society appears to value things like physical strength, beauty, and social graces - the reality is that more and more often that the people making a positive difference in the world are the "out of the box" thinkers who are probably on the spectrum. Silicon Valley, for instance, isn't exclusively populated with Olympic athletes and supermodels, but it does have an extraordinarily high proportion of children on the spectrum, and - not by accident - an awful lot of people who've changed life as we know it for the better.

I don't think we have to hide behind the autistic people who are extraordinary, though (although I am finding that they are legion) - after all, "strong" people like you describe don't do that. I assume you are not judging what you call "strength" by the standards of world-class athletes, and I'm guessing if you did, you might be found wanting. Anyone can be governed by their own inflexibility, define people that irritate them by their weakest qualities and suggest they ought to "die off." This is not a "natural" nor "old fashioned" view, it is bigotry. It takes work for all of us to live together on this planet; "dying off" is an incredibly lazy and offensive way to look at managing complex interpersonal relationships.

And you are entitled to your opinion. I was just sharing how I was raised. Bigot whatever label you give it doesn't matter that's how I see/saw things. And according to the success rate/ statistics of fathers sticking around and having healthy relationships with their children with special needs indicates I am not alone in this train of thought. Now I don't say that it is the right way to think, but it is a way that the world is seen.
This is the truth whether we would like to admit it or not.

Oh and btw It was not my intention to offend anybody

I think what he may have been trying to express (and forgive me for speaking for you op) is that his upbringing guides him to want to teach his children to be strong. Letting her slide on things is not in his nature. I understand this because my own mother is the same way. She would never ever, think for one second that my daughter doesn't deserve to be present because of her weaknesses but it is in her beliefs that she should do everything possible to make my daughter stronger, tougher, and more confident. So she doesn't let my daughter slide so much because of as and pushes her a lot. While this is stressful for my daughter it is somewhat helpful in small doses for her to nderstand that the world is going to push her to stand on her own two feet. And she can. I believe everyone can find their true place in the world.

But the op should also understand that too much of this "stiff upper lip" mentality can be damaging. There is a fine line between pushing our kids to be the best they can be and stressing them out and making them feel like failures.

Mama to grace
Thank you again for your insight and comment. I am trying to change and the past week is proof. For all the children I have dialed it down tremendously. They are happier and not necessarily doing more or less mistakes or forgetful things. And to make things better I am not the "bad guy" having to inforce things as I did before. I just mention things like " you know that was wrong" or "please do that correctly" in the mr. Robinsons neighborhood voice.
Situations still come up and they get solved but this time i am not the big bad wolf.
I can enjoy this.
So there is progress. Or at least I think there is. The biggest challenge is changing how I see things.
I worry about my health because of me still being mad inside but not showing it. I dont want to internalize this and cause gastrointestinal problems. So I have to change how I see/react to things.

Ok...

My dad had the survival of the fittest attitude too ---A huge, undiagnosed Aspie, too by the way. No weakness was acceptable etc.

THIS WAS A HORRIBLE WAY TO GROW UP. DO NOT RAISE KIDS THAT WAY.

In the real world the strong are strong because they know what their strengths are and yes, their weaknesses, too. How far do you think a cave person in the wild would last if he didn't know where his Achilles Heel was to protect it?

Your weaknesses apparently include OCD and controlling behavior. Instead of going into the forest to die, due to this weakness, it is good that you chose to deal with it constructively.

So, again, you need to let the mother take control of a lot of these things, busy though she may be. Just because you are a man does not put you in charge of this whole family.

Her mother should give her choices ie. comfortable, good fitting clothes that do not require a belt or more fashionable clothes, with either a long shirt like someone recommended or some other rigging that allows her to minimize the teasing.

If you have to look at plumber's crack at home, this is not the end of the world. The main reason to avoid this in school is teasing, and so she does not run afoul of the dress code. Honestly, just being a girl who is overweight or being an Aspie girl, period is enough for her to be a target. so fully expect the teasing will shift to some other subject. As another poster says, letting her deal with the consequences on her own might not be a bad idea, depending on her emotional maturity.

This brings me to another point. What is her emotional age? Do you know? Autism is a PDD or Pervasive Development Disorder which means there are typically neurological and emotional delays. Some of her behavior may be of an 8 year old or a six year old, and be perfectly normal for her. Sometimes you have to say to yourself that you are living with a girl who emotionally 8 (or whatever) but who has womanly hormones, and ask yourself if what she is doing makes sense in that context.

Regarding change and routines, here is something that took me longer than it should have to realize: Autistic people naturally make their own routines. It is part of the package. If you are OCD with controlling tendencies, you might have insight into this. Making your own routines = control over oneself and one's environment =safety.

Other people making rules and schedules takes awhile to accept and if they run counter to sensory or other issues may not take at all. My son has had the same tooth brushing regiment for years. He is almost seven. He still fights my husband brushing his teeth. Why? It is physically painful for him because of how his brain processes sensory input. It is also a huge invasion of his personal space. It has to be done, so my husband does it, but it it will not become an accepted part of his schedule unless he is desensitized to it. He understands why, intellectually, so he does not hate us for it, but he hates it. Don't be so married to the notion of authority that you do not realize that providing simple explanations for things goes a long way to developing a more positive environment.

Try to think about why she might be rebelling against certain things with an open mind. When she has more trust, at 12 she may even tell you. Then try to work on them together if you can.

Just give her lots of love like my father has. I miss my mommy so damned much though. Me and my father both take care of each other. I love him more then I do life itself. I wish I could go back in time just so I would know that we both wouldn't age and die.

A lot of what I said was pretty much covered so nevermind...

Last edited by Sweetleaf on 24 Feb 2012, 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.