How do I explain this to my son? (Help! Profanity)

Post Reply New Topic

So, for background, one of my son's specific pragmatic speech deficits is not knowing his audience. He's gotten pretty good at 11-year-old boy speak, but he doesn't change it for anyone, so you pretty much get talked to like you are an 11 year old boy whether you are one, or whether you're the President of the United States.This has several extremely difficult and complex implications, the most problematic of which is profane language and gestures. 11 year old boys love to swear, but most of them know you can't swear at people without expecting a reaction, and you certainly can't swear in front of your parents, or the principal, or your teacher, etc. DS can either swear all the time or not at all - so, obviously, we have opted to teach him not to swear at all. We have explained that the other kids who swear are able to "turn it off" when it's not appropriate, and so the rule is there until he can keep his language appropriate to the situation.

I have also made a point to explain all the various profane words and gestures, and why people consider them hurtful. DS understands that.

So, today, our dog got loose, we were all very upset, DS apparently yelled at a neighbor's kindergartner - a child who is largely raising himself from what I can see. Said kindergartner swore at DS and gave him the finger. DS melted down.

Specifically, I need to explain why he needs to ignore swearing from little kids when it is directed at him (this is neither the first or the last time this has happened, our neighborhood has many kids who are a bit rough around the edges.) I also need to explain other situations when swearing should be ignored and when it's serious and should be brought to the attention of an adult. DS has a history of fighting over swear words, and doesn't understand the developmental gap between himself and a little kid.

DS is struggling with the idea that this child, half his age, was using language intended to be hurtful purposefully to hurt him. He does not understand why this rule is different for smaller children. He does not understand how other kids can use this language when it's not language that is OK for him to use, and he does not understand that there are situations where it isn't worth engaging.

I can't figure out how to articulate this complicated mess of rules. Help!

Isn't the issue; who enforces the rules, rather than if one was broken?

The little kid did break the rule as lots of kids do - rules for kids are up to their parents to enforce, not other kids. So explain, the kid broke the rule - the littler the kid the more likely they will break all sorts of rules. This isn't about your son, rather where the kids is in learning his rules. If no one is going to get hurt, you ignore it and let the parents figure out how to parent their kid. If someone is in danger, then, tell a trusted adult (not necessarily the kids parent, as our kids sometimes need an interpreter and I would rather help manage that).

We had our first full meltdown in almost a year - UGH, I hate meltdowns!

I tried this tack: it's a long-term solution, but isn't working for us right now...he can't generalize that there are different rules for him than for other people in the world unless he has a reason, and the fact that we aren't in charge of the other kid doesn't trump that the other kid broke the rules.

DS is really stuck on the kid's intentions: this kid was certainly intending to hurt his feelings. He doesn't get that most kids (including himself) aren't really thinking about what the hurt does to the other person.

ok.... Can you think of an example of when he publicly broke a rule (maybe a public meltdown where he said or did mean things to you?), and ask him to consider what it would be like if other kids butted in to try to correct his breach of the rule (or if they all went home flipping out about it). And then explain how the rule about who enforces rules is bigger than any single rule. (for instance if we try to enforce laws ourselves, we go to jail as vigelantes...)

All of that said.....yesterday, DS had the biggest meltdown in the last year, and when we try to talk about it.... I dunno, I don't remember, hey did you know that there are some useless mods in Minecraft.... I just get nothing. So, the type of discussion I imagine with you and your son would be impossible with mine

Whenever my younger son does something that hurts my older son's feelings, I tell my older son, "He's a lot younger than you are. He doesn't know any better. He has not yet learned how to _________ or that ________ is wrong." I try to keep things simple.

If an adult says something hurtful, I say, "What ________ said is wrong. You are not _______. _________ was mad. Sometimes, people say mean things when they are mad. Is saying mean stuff when you are mad a good choice? (I let him answer). What should you do when you are mad? (I let him answer). __________ made a bad choice. I am unhappy with _______. ________ needs to make better choices. You should avoid _______ when ______ is in a bad mood and not say something mean back. Come tell me when _______ says mean things to you."

You might consider using some of the picture books from the authors below to teach about social skills, including name calling.

http://www.jedbaker.com/books.htm books by Dr. Jed Baker, including the Social Stories Picture Book

http://joyberrybooks.com/ social skills picture books for children

I also have a lot of other social skills material on my free website.

Good idea Blondeambition, Aspies respond well to reasoning. Its also easier when you have a younger sibling, especially one that is also on the spectrum and is not up to the understanding level that he is. However you can use this for Typical kids as well....they have not learned this yet, or even some parents do not teach their children how to speak appropriately but there is nothing we can do about what "they" do we can only control what "we" do.

My son was 4 in pre school and they called us to the Directors office because a two year old was throwing rocks at my son so my son threw one back and hit him in the head causing the 2 year old to bleed. Of course my child was the horrible evil child. Yes my son was older but he was only 4 and only doing the same as the younger child but had better aim . Now that he is older I can explain this sort of thing to him but that was very upsetting to us that they threatened to kick our child out of a private school that we were paying a lot of money for. It was a French immersion school and I worked full time and my entire pay check went to keep my son in that school because we thought it was important for my son to learn French. Im glad as he is now fluent and we live in France, I did it but it was tough and he was not diagnosed yet and not treated well at this school that I was working my rear off to pay for. He was treated as the bad kid because we lived an hour away and not in LaJolla (very rich part of San Diego) so we were also the poor people. I think sometimes people need to take the younger child's actions into account as well if things happen at school (the school went from 2 years to 8 years). I hated some of those snooty rich Mothers that would look down their nose at me, some of them were nice and my sons teacher helped me one day when I lost it on the play ground because some woman came up to me with two little girls the same age as my son (he was in kindergarten right before his diagnosis) and said to me "Your son exposed himself to these two little girls" as if my son was a man in a trench coat. I explained to her that he had a urinary problem and sometimes pulled his pants down before he got to the toilet but I was really upset. The teacher told me that she had no business saying anything to me and that they were bringing in a Pediatrician to talk to the parents as they had other incidences of this from other boys and they needed a doctor to explain that it was normal....nutty!

If things happen outside of school its more difficult and you just have to keep talking to him and letting him know that some children are not taught properly how to speak nicely to people and that is very sad because it makes them sound unintelligent. Also he should not yell or imitate the behavior of a child that is smaller than him. He should stick to speaking the way you teach him and this also makes him sound like the intelligent boy that he is. It is very difficult and as I have shown in my story. I just wanted to tell the director of the school......Im sorry but this is just not fair. Especially when he went on to explain disciplinary techniques to us as if we were bad parents. I kind of felt like giving him the finger all things considered ! I was a good girl though because even though we may have had less money and less power over the school than the ones that donated, ect. I am an intelligent woman!

I haven't read all of this, but what I did skim through made me think of something I feel the need to share.

My son has this exact same problem. He doesn't distinguish (except for clergy) the difference between a principal, a smaller kid, a parent...to him we are all on the same level. He has a pragmatic language disorder and he's very rigid and black and white so I'm sure this plays into this quite a bit. I have been trying to help him with this by explaining how his behavior and words and gestures effect others, and he just does not get that. Explaining to him that he doesn't like it when others say hurtful things to him, so remember that they don't like these things either doesn't work. He doesn't make that connection. To him it's like 2 completely different issues. I have had him in social skills therapy for several years and he is growing and slowley learning this, but only experiences with others with someone who is trained to teach this has helped him grow. It's a long process, it's hard and it takes time and maturity.

One thing he said to me that I want to share is this. In my efforts to facilitate good interactions by directing my son to make good choices, translated to him that all I care about is the other kid, I don't care about him. He interpreted my help with teaching him not to do things that turn kids off so they will play with him, (because he says he doesn't understand why kids walk away all the time) as I was only caring about what the other child was experiencing. This never dawned on me that he would feel this way, especially since he asks for my help, and thankfully he talks to me and felt comfortable saying that. I explained that I was trying to help "him" understand what it was like for the other person so they wouldn't walk away, and what I care about is that he isn't rejected because of missunderstandings so he can do what he wants most, to play with other kids. I felt bad that he felt this way and I didn't realize it. He understands that he is the one I care about, not the other kids, but I actually had to clarify that. You never know what your child is thinking if they don't tell you, and there is a possibility that what you think he is hearing is really not what you are trying to convey.

Here's some more information on Pragmatic Speech deficits, this one under discussion in particular: http://www.asha.org/public/speech/devel ... matics.htm

It is also important to make sure he understands, he's not always the one that's 'wrong.' I mean yes he does need to understand other people have their own intrests and stuff and he has to be open to that in interacting with them. But also there are bullies and they have no right to harrass him.

I guess my main concern is I would hate him to learn its ok for other people to be mean to him...I guess I just had a lot of experience of taking things literally. Like one time my mom was trying to explain that sometimes the way I interact is off putting so thats sometimes why people didn't particularly like me.......I mean she was basically just trying to help. But I took it as her saying 'it's your fault people pick on you.' So I just think it is important to empathazise learing about how to better express himself and interact, but also that if someone is picking on him or making fun of him they are in the wrong....not that it's his fault as that can indicate he more or less deserves it.