Discipline and Blame.

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Just a few things that have been running thru my head. What frustrates me the most is running into people who don't 'get it' and tell me how all my kids need is some more discipline. Those people that think it's all just an excuse for bad behavior, bad kids, bad parenting. Argh!

And since I'm on discipline, do you use any kinds of rewards sytems for your AS/ADHD kids for school behavior? I never did, it didn't work for home behavior, why would it work for school...? I thought about using hershey kisses even for work finished that day. But I don't like the idea of using candy as a daily reward. Sadly, I don't think a longer term reward chart would work, he's just too impulsive. And I'm not sure I should be considering a day where he shuts down for a while but doesn't finish his work a "bad" day. I don't know, I think he tries really hard, and I think that should be celebrated every day, not just when he does all of his work and had a good behavior day.

Anyone have thoughts on this? I'm really just struggling here with the discipline end of things, I don't know what I should be doing... we are undiagnosed as of yet, but the school psych says she thinks PDD-NOS.

well, as you say, we are fairly new to all of this also (in the sense of lack of aspergers diagnosis), but I will tell you what we have been doing.

Nothing seemed to work, up until more recently, and believe me when I say, this is all a work in progress, but we have opted not to think of things in terms of rewards/discipline for a number of obvious reasons....

Our daughter, when given options, will inevitably choose the easiest of two. She would shrug her shoulders if she had priveledges removed and didn't seem to take notice of times when she had recieved a reward for any positive behaviour/good day/deed etc. The only thing that seems to penetrate, is incentive.

We have done charts GALORE and offer $ (somewhat like allowance) for actions or efforts. There came a time when we realised it was almost ridiculous to keep at our daughter about completing chores each day, cuz when she would refuse, ignore, forget or need constant promting, it would end in absolute nightmare situations and we were worse off than when we began...

So now, everything counts for something. All the areas we struggle with (simple instructions & daily routine like pick up after yourself, brush your teeth, get out of bed for school, getting to school on time, feeding her pets, etc), will result in a specific and agreed upon amount of $.
We have made magnetic $ to hand over (for the child that needs something more immediate), she adds it to her charts and at the end of each week she can cash in.

When she doesn't do the things we would expect to give her $ for, she simply doesnt get the cash. We don't remove priveledges, we don't remove $ from her gains, we just do not give her money for actions or efforts not made. No huge losses, but the possibility for numerous gains... Make sense?

And not only does all of this work, but it is a mighty attractive bonus each week, to be able to buy what you want, when you want...she LOVES that freedom (now, if only we could get her to realise that she is capable of making her own decisions *sigh*).

As for school, you could incorporate these achievements into your incentive plan of action...or ask that the teacher do the same?

Hope this is of some help to you...but as we know, what works for one, does not always work for another.

Best Wishes,

Melissa

Here's how it goes down at our house

I'm not a big fan of food rewards so those are only saved for milestone celebrations and we usually do a dinner party of his choice (I cook his favourite meal or we have a pizza party)

Rewards at home for good behaviour are high fives. It works like a charm. In fact it works so well that if I give my 8 yo aspie a high five for a job well done, his 21 months NT sister comes running because she wants high fives too.

I also give a lot of verbal praise and compare situations. Lately he's been great about turning off his GameCube when his playing time is done. Previously, it would result in a meltdown. So I tell him "Wow! You must be growing up because when you were 7 do you know what you would do? You would scream and hit and kick and bite. But look at your now! You're amazing. Definitely worth a high five" (said in my over the top excited voice of course ) and he LOVES it.

I've never done reward charts, collecting points to buy something etc because I knew it wouldn't work with our little guy. But this system has definitely been positive for us.

we tried all sorts of reward systems for son..........money never seemed to work for son. if he didn't want to do whatever the target behavior was, he would stubbornly refuse. it's been a long road. ultimately, through therapy & his therapeutic day school, we're seeing tremendous results in his behavior & compliance...we praise him for a job well done, & when necessary, ground him for non-compliance. ***a note on praise***~ we had to be careful about how "thick" we loaded on the praise, because son always felt it sounded fake if we praised too much.

LOL I'm definitely aware of not laying it on too thick. I have family that does that, and I have to bite my tongue to keep from rolling my eyes. I do give high fives a lot and he really likes that. I try to ignore the unwanted behaviors as much as I can and praise the wanted ones. He seems to respond to that the most.

I'll keep the money thing in mind. We tried something like that a while back, and the kids would just buy candy. Not a good thing when you have 2 kids that react badly to food dyes. It may work if we modified the rules...

Hmmm...I think I should elaborate that I don't go around my house sounding like a cheerleader. By phrasing this is what you used to do, and this how you do it now..you must be getting older...it gives him a feeling of pride and he likes to compare how he much he has improved. It helps him realize that when he get frustrated because he can't do something, he knows it won't always be that way because he has seen a pattern of positive changes in the past. So i swear I'm not a person you would roll your eyes at!

My son is also a very outgoing person...happy, chatty and expressive so it works well with his personality.

funny enough, often times, I feel like a cheerleader:)

Me too, but I haven't had to break out the pom-poms yet.

i am not saying i have any idea but I do understand the whole public and even family ignorance.... i cannot tell u the amount of mistakes i cry over because i listened to what people told me and what I thought a typical child should respond to. But what makes it worse is Pre-diagnosis, even though I grew up with discipline and knew what it was all about, I knew in my heart that with my son, I couldnt do the norm type of discipline..... Then FINALLY I got him in behavior management. The first counselor was awful and couldnt even speak above a whisper but then we got blessed with a good one. She is always in charge..... She is never forceful and always getting my odd,adhd,autistic child to do what she wants(not always when she wants him to) but she does get it done. Anyway, I'm rambling.... The point I am trying to make is that I have seen this work.... It is all about the positive and not the negative.....
My son is only five so I dont know how that compares to what you have...

I use the sticker chart thing(previously tried and failed). He gets all excited about it and then after a couple of weeks it fizzles out.... But I still use it..... I think the difference now is that we have someone else to get excited about it also(the couselor).... ALWAYS stay animated and excited (of course it may be yours is older).... But once an hour or more often if I see something special but at least once an hour I comment on something he is doing right.... sometimes that is just the fact that during a fit he tried to stop himself from hitting me or throwing something.... (notice I said tried) I still praise him for trying and then follow up with maybe next time u can Hit a pillow or count to ten..... I comment on times when he is playing with his toys or sitting quietly or talking nice to me or whatever...... I have been doing this consistently for a month..... and im not saying it is rosie now but it is much better and I believe that this is where its at.... I have for so long concentrated on what form of discipline to use rather than making him self aware..... now hopefully when he grows older and much bigger (he is already almost my height) he will be aware of the red flag behaviors....
For some reason, not acknowledging the horrible behaviors and commenting on the good ones seems to actually be slowly phasing out the hitting,kicking,screaming,two hour fits I used to see.....
Dont get me wrong I do kind of a time out thing when he hits because you cant let that continue but he really doesnt care about that but after time out we "role play what to do next time.....
I also have a "good choice" chart with a happy face at the top..... it shows what to do to be happy when u r mad sad etc.... we go over this every night and its posted in his room..... again the thing that works for us is not to acknowledge the bad and consistently put in his head the good alternative without mentioning Dont hit people do hit a pillow... instead now i just say when ur angry hit a pillow....
Of course, this may be something that sounds ridiculous or like i'm a wuss mommy but the iron fist method doesnt work for me... it only makes it worse....
Also, i think it is really important to watch out for candy rewards and anything that costs money.... I dont want him to grow up thinking that just cuz u do good u should get extra brownie points cuz it doesnt work like that all the time......
I do like the idea of dinner night tho that is cool.... something like that where u make a big deal out of him being wonderful and make him feel special for doing the right thing

rae rae, as for this... "Of course, this may be something that sounds ridiculous or like i'm a wuss mommy but the iron fist method doesnt work for me... it only makes it worse.... "

I don't think that makes you a wuss mom at all. Not everything works for every kid. If I had a nickel for every time someone told me I need to start spanking I'd be a rich woman. Time out makes my son 10 times worse. So far, the praise and positive rewards seem to work the best for him. I have started the role playing also. He does need that, since in the heat of the moment the correct response usually escapes him.

CelticGoddess, I knew what you meant.

I've nodded all the way through this thread

One of the things that led us to getting a dx for our son is that normal parenting strategies just would not work. Time-outs and "punishment" (I mean negative consequences) get him really agitated, and we head on a downward spiral.

We have started using a "rewards chart" type of system...but it is used solely for positive reinforcement. More than anything else, it provides ME with an important reminder to watch for things that he's doing right, rules that he's following, & other desired behaviours, and to make sure that I point them out and praise him in a specific way for it. DS LOVES numbers and counting, so tracking his points on the chart is a good motivator. I think it's done a lot for our relationship. With a new baby in the house, a spirited 2 1/2 year old daughter, and my 4 1/2 year old aspie's inflexibility...I was getting really stressed out, and short on patience (it's hard to admit this), and was too negative lots of the time because I was feeling really frustrated that nothing was working. Now that we're doing the positive reinforcement all of the time (along with a visual reminder of the house rules that we came up with together), discipline (time out or removal of privileges) is going better. Less meltdowns because he knows what to expect. The meltdowns still do occur though, but there has to be consequences for the big things...like aggression.

We do as much as we can to monitor his state & make sure we address sensory needs before they lead to agitation, but it is impossible to prevent meltdowns altogether. I guess it's really our job to help him learn how to cope with them...but he really has a hard time dealing with things going differently than how he wants/expects.

I'm with you on this! I cried a lot about this before we had a dx, because NOTHING we tried was working, and I was already feeling like I was failing my child. I know I'm going to keep hearing those comments, but now that I understand more about AS, I feel that I really am doing the best job that I can...

HEAR HEAR!! ! *sigh*