Could it be Autism? I'm tired of dissecting my daughter!

Post Reply New Topic

I think most people who answered mentioned that it's still a good idea to get an evaluation. No one is claiming to be sure about the answers, everyone is just providing an opinion based on our experiences and collective knowledge about autism.

Trust me I'm not basing her diagnosis off these posts. There are just do many websites that contradict each other that it gets kind of confusing when you start reading. I'm simply sharing the things that I see, and trying to decipher what is important and what is not. I appreciate everyone who has contributed!

I think people like to feel they have something to offer those new to the forum, perhaps. I'm quite sure the op, as he has said, is not doing any diagnosing from the answers, merely gleaning what is helpful to him. I know when I first came here I trawled old posts, in particular those about girls in their teens, and a lot of it helped.

Just to be clear, I didn't think you were. I mean, it just seemed to me that is was being implied that people would do that. I know some people would, but you just seemed like you were requesting advice and input, which people gave. I commend your parental vigilance.

Also, to answer an earlier post of yours, about noting the difference between a child with ASD, ADHD or an NT kid, I think a lot of people get distracted by lists of 'warning signs' and such like. I know I did, when I found out about ASDs. I questioned my mother about a raft of different things regarding my development and behaviour.

This is a purely subjective anecdotal experience, and not an objective description of the difference between an ASD child and an NT child.

From her description, the difference between me, a child with an ASD (suspected, but highly suspected), and my brother at the age of 3 was routine. I watched the same film (The Lion King) everyday, several times a day. I wouldn't interact with people unless they pushed it, I refused communication although my communicative skills were good. I never babbled, talked to myself as a played, or made up 'stories' for my toys. A car was a car and obeyed the rules that cars were bound by, a bouncing ball was a ball.

To my brother, a car was a rocketship, a ball was the world. My brother chattered away to everyone, about anything. One day he'd be running around pretending his hand is a gun, another day he'd be playing with mud, or whatever, basically he did whatever. Routine was just the time mum called him in for lunch, for me it was everything, and even if parents weren't enforcing it, I was.

But, not every child with an ASD with have one of their main problems being repetitive and restricted behaviour.

I know you've probably seen this, but, the DSM criteria as it is currently:

(I) A total of six (or more) items from (A), (B), and (C), with at least two from (A), and one each from (B) and (C)
(A) qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:
1. marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction
2. failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
3. a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people, (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
4. lack of social or emotional reciprocity ( note: in the description, it gives the following as examples: not actively participating in simple social play or games, preferring solitary activities, or involving others in activities only as tools or "mechanical" aids )
(B) qualitative impairments in communication as manifested by at least one of the following:
1. delay in, or total lack of, the development of spoken language (not accompanied by an attempt to compensate through alternative modes of communication such as gesture or mime)
2. in individuals with adequate speech, marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation with others
3. stereotyped and repetitive use of language or idiosyncratic language
4. lack of varied, spontaneous make-believe play or social imitative play appropriate to developmental level
(C) restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least two of the following:
1. encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
2. apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
3. stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
4. persistent preoccupation with parts of objects
(II) Delays or abnormal functioning in at least one of the following areas, with onset prior to age 3 years:
(A) social interaction
(B) language as used in social communication
(C) symbolic or imaginative play
(III) The disturbance is not better accounted for by Rett's Disorder or Childhood Disintegrative Disorder

I think at the moment the last part of it is the most important, does she have problems with any of those? Only you can answer that, as we don't know your child.

(P.S. Sorry if my tone is off, or I seem impolite, I don't intend it at all.)

First of all, I wasn't singling you out: there were a number of posts on the thread that I was describing, some of which were from parents and some from people on the spectrum; I was writing about all of them in a general sense with certain specifics from each thrown in. I am NOT trying to call anyone out in specific, I'm trying to point out a general trend I find troubling.

Second, if we're going to use the criterion of "this is a public forum where anyone can post" that is a statement that should be carefully thought through. The value of this forum could be seriously damaged if we decide that anybody can post any thought that comes into their head.

I am finding that often, when a new poster comes here looking for information about their child after having been treated dismissively by professionals, they are met with a barrage of "no, it doesn't sound like autism to me," or "I think you're overreacting." While people are free to post whatever they want within the posting guidelines of WP, shouldn't we trying to help a parent find what they need?

What if a new poster had been told repeatedly by professionals that they were overreacting and decided to do nothing? What if their child was on the spectrum? I was that parent - until my son wound up in the ER. Then I came here, and heard from supportive parents who'd been through similar circumstances, and I got a lot of help.

I could have gotten help much earlier if I'd had just one person take me seriously, to point me in the right direction. I want to make sure other parents have that benefit.

I was not aware that this forum was censored or that there was any particular criteria for posting. I've only seen posts removed from this board if they were obviously damaging.

Maybe we should all put disclaimers in our signatures.

In fairness momsparky, most people don't post any thought that comes into their head. I would say the majority of people who repsond do so based on their authentic response to what the op posts. Sometimes other information comes later on in the thread that can make one think again, after all, you can only go by what's in front of you. Who's to know what will be a help to some? You get the odd troll of course, but most are offering their thoughts based on their own experiences.

I'm aware that people don't - in that instance, I was responding directly to Wreck-Gar's statement "This is a public forum, anyone can post, and people who choose to participate should understand this. " and later "I was not aware that this forum was censored or that there was any particular criteria for posting."

I am merely trying to point out that with new posters, the assumption that it is implicit that you are offering personal experience, or that it's implicit that the spectrum covers a wide range of differing symptoms, abilities, deficits and symptoms that may be outside of any given poster's experience is probably not a safe assumption.

I won't derail this thread further.

Whilst I appreciate your input and my "reality check" on this whole thing. I'm going to be a bit selfish and please ask that we keep this on topic. I read your previous post about ending up in the ER with your son, and for that I'm truly sorry. Mine got a busted lip and tongue at school today, after another student bumped her. I've read so many red flag criterias, that I'm beginning to lose some of the sanity I have left. I am just looking for opinions on what is fact from fiction when it comes to a child with a potential problem. I most likely will get an official diag. (which is not always concrete) and either get a piece of mind and better understanding about the "quirky" things she does, or get told that she needs help, and we can move on with getting her the best quality of life. I continue to encourage people to post on this topic. Talking with real people, is much easier than reading handbooks. Although they're important, they're not everything! BTW when I was very young, I sucked my fingers way to long into childhood, was hooked on smelling blankets, and even made my parents take me to the doctor because I had the "squeaks". Imagine the diag. I would have gotten nowadays. Sucking my fingers at 5 is a self stim, smelling things like blankets is an autistic trait, and the "squeaks", I don't know what you'd call that, other than a vocal self stim!

Is there anything that is causing significant problems for your daughter at home or at school, or making life difficult for you and your wife to accommodate her?

I have a friend whose son has many AS characteristics (very rule oriented, had a special interest, quirky interests, loves lists, advanced in reading and math) but he is thriving at home and at school, so there is not at this point a need for intervention. I gave the mom a gentle heads up, saying, "As I read these books on AS, there is a lot that doesn't fit my son, but sure reminds me of J." If down the road he does start to have difficulty socially, I will urge her to read more about it. It may be that J (and possibly your daughter) fit into the BAP (broader autistic phenotype) catagory, where they have some traits and quirks but not to a degree that causes them significant problems in life.

If for arguments sake you were convinced your daughter had AS, but the professionals couldn't see it, what kinds of therapy do you think she needs? Speech/language to help her have a conversation? OT for sensory issues or motor skills? Therapy to help her interact more with peers? Therapy to help ease rigid thinking or cope with changes in routines? Someone to analyze the cause of meltdowns?

It might be helpful for you to observe some of her peers playing to get a better sense of what kids her age typically do. Also to ask her teachers if her play is very different from the other kids in class.

Let me start by saying, I had no clue you were on the spectrum, I figured you were a parent of a child on the spectrum. You obviously had a very mild diagnosis, and/or great therapy. I appreciate you sharing your personal experience with me, the fact that you realize what you were missing in yourself is incredible. As far as "thinking outside the box", I thought the example I gave about the Gumby video was a good example, how she recognized the family order just by watching them interact. Maybe this was not a good example.
As far as the DSM criteria, yes I've read it before, and the only one that sticks out to me is idiosynchratic language. She started talking at such an early age, I remeber her going around for a day when she was about 1 and a half, shaking peoples hands saying "Nice to meet you", Like stated before no echolacia, but she does use phrases she's heard. I thought that was normal. Her communication skills are excellent, and always have been. Here interest in what others are doing or showing us what she's done has NEVER been a topic. Sometimes I think the kid just wants to know everything. It is near impossible for my wife and I to have a conversation without her chiming in or asking "what are you talking about guys". The whole using toy improperly is another confusing topic for me. Some state that if a child can't make a phone out of a lego block it's a sign, other say if the crash there cars into blocks instead of racing them, it's a sign? Very confusing topic for me. The other thing which has driven me crazy for awhile that may match a criteria is when she's mad or scared, she gives me this "slackjaw" look. I have brought her to the mirror when she is upset, and asked her if she liked looking like she was mad. She responds no, and puts on that cheesy all teeth 3yr old smile. Noone has ever mentioned autism or a problem they've seen in my child other than a few who said she was bit hyper for her age. Wherever we go, people stop and ask how old she is, because she talks past her years. So once again, other don't see a problem, just me. Maybe I'm just watching to closely cause I'm petrified of what is going on inside her brain. Whatever happened to a simple broken wrist or a bad cut. Physical problems are so much easier to identify over mental.

You can't have autism if you have no social problems. It takes many things together to make a diagnosis. I agree that parents fears should always be investigated, you know her best, but the more you talk about her, the less she sounds like she has it to me. This is my personal opinion, lol. Get an evaluation so that you can relax and just appreciate her. This way you will know for sure if something is wrong or not instead of being tortured by the possibilities.

According to her teacher, she plays great with the other kids, and I have never seen that to be an issue. I've seen her communicate wth children her age, older, and adults. She seems to hold her own in a conversation. I just wonder what is "programmed" and what comes naturally. She is not big on routines. She does wierd stuff, like when we're going to nana and papas house, she knows the route we take. She ALWAYS asks, "are we going over the bumpy bridge", she doesnt grasp family order meaning that her nana is my mom and so on. We were watching the Lion King the other night and at the end Simba looks like his dad, she had trouble grasping that concept as well. I don't know if that's normal for a kid that just turned 3, or she should get that already? Sometimes I feel like she's in a shell, and can be timid, especially with me. We had a talk last night, probably the deepest conversation we've ever had. I explained to her that sometimes daddy puts pressure on her, because he cares about her, and I know it hurts her feelings.
We had an issue this past weekend where she said something that I thought was slightly out of context and it angered me. I said "WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT", and then proceeded to walk down stairs. Three minutes later, I noticed she had not followed behind me. When I walked upstairs, she was sitting in a dark closet. When I asked her what she was doing, she told me "pretending she was in the forest". When I asked her why she said "cause I am". When I asked her if "daddy hurt her feelings" she said yes.
I am now feeling like her shyness and fears may have been instilled by my constant testing and pressuring her to excel. It's hard when a kid can talk past her years, but not act like it. I need parenting classes! Everytime I read a new red flag, I'm testing her. The problems may just lie in me.

While I partially agree with your statement, I would say that the girl is only 3. The gap in social development would be quite small and may be unrecognizable at this time. Up to about 2nd grade, all the teachers would say my son had no social skills issues because he liked to play with other children and they generally accepted him. In 4th grade, the social skills problems became a real issue, and it was at this age that he was just too different from the other children and began to feel lonely because no one would play with him anymore.

My son was actually listed as "popular" in the school assessment in 1st grade, and he did very well socially until about 3rd grade. This was because he was interested in other kids and absolutely terrific at what I've now learned is called "scripting," which is sort of the next step after echolalia - instead of just repeating phrases he'd heard, he was taking chunks of language and their context and applying them in appropriate social situations, but without understanding their meaning. I've often described it as being like the ELIZA DOCTOR DOS program, if you remember that. It looks like appropriate social communication, it quacks like appropriate social communication - but it isn't. This strategy was only successful for him until 3rd grade, when kids expected a deeper connection in conversation.

This exchange was very stressful for him even when it was working, so he would come home and take it out on us. I thought, at the time, that it was my parenting - I was being too hard, to strict, not strict enough. Turns out, I was half right: in general, kids on the spectrum need a different style of parenting with an entirely different measure than strict/lenient.

It seems to me that even kids who can't be diagnosed until later show signs of stress either at home or at school. If your daughter is thriving, it's time to turn down the microscope and put away the checklists. Instead of analyzing every developmental item to see of she meets it, step back and look at the big picture.