Questioning child symptoms - aspergers?

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Hi, newbie here, I'll try and be as concise as possible, but I really would appreciate insights from your good selves if possible.
My 5 yr old son has recently finished his 1st yr at school, even though we would have thought him highly sociable, he was bullied the entire year, and while he loves interaction with adults, he just couldn't manage interacting with his peers in class. So he's now awaiting assessment, which will take months because we do not have the money to go private. I guess I'm just looking for your reaction to the following behaviours he exhibits, if they scream out anything to you, or if they are so mild as to be nothing.Either way, I don't mind what the outcome is, I love him so much anyway, I don't mind. I would just like comments / reactions from parents with experience of this please - and thanks!


At age 3 he was briefly (as in a 5 minute consultation) investigated for some behaviours, but discharged very quickly, those behaviours were:

Age 3
- looking at things out of the corner of his eye, following lines of tables, walls, out of the corner of his eye

- repetitive play, he would sit with blocks and almost mechanically move blocks from one box to another for ages. I kept trying to stop him doing it, but it was like when he needed "downtime" after someone visiting or some outing, he would run to the blocks and do this to chill out for a while

- fascination with wheels of cars, he wouldn't play with them so much as study their wheels going round close up

- speech delay, improvement after therapy

Age 5, now we are awaiting further consultations:

- physically clumsy compared to his peers, running, cycling and also with things like using scissors

- still fascinated with wheels, will study cars driving along floor at close range to see wheel movement

- frequently gets obsessed with topics of interest, eg. Cars movie, Thomas, where he has to know every little detail about the subject for a while, and then goes off it on to something else. Because of this, couldn't manage general conversations with kids in his class

- loves drawing to the point of getting him a sketch book and he will sit for hours doing what are actually very good pictures, but in huge volumes, like page after page for hours

- speaks with a strange accent, and often uses very formal type language, like "that's my pleasure", "I truly hope so, i truly do indeed"

- often understands things literally

- gets over the top excited/ anxious about upcoming events, from early in the morning on the day of a childrens' party for example, will go around holding child's present until the afternoon, almost as if he's over anxious he will forget it or be late, same behaviour when we're going on holidays, or a day trip somewhere, gets anxious to the point where i feel sorry for him

- can't really manage small talk, especially with children of same age, his answers were way too formal for them

On the other hand, he also has these personality traits:

- affectionate, good eye contact, reasonable intelligence, was average /good at schoolwork, loves imaginative play with his siblings

Sorry I went on a bit, just wondering what does the above say to you? It's a pretty comprehensive list of my little man, like I said, I adore him anyway and wouldn't change him for the world, but with the second school year approaching, I'm fretting over the prospect of him being bullied again, and want to know if I should alert the teacher to a possible diagnosis or if these are just little nothings. Thanks.

Sounds like it could be autism to me, although with AS I don't think there is usually a speech delay. Would definitely recommend him seeing someone qualified to make that diagnosis, especially if it's not AS; you'll want to get working on that ASAP to give him the best possible development during these critical early years.

It sounds to me like many of the traits typical of AS. It is not just one trait. Rather, it is how they all add up together. I would say your observations warrant an evaluation.

If you don't mind my asking, since you cannot afford a private evaluation, where are you getting an evaluation?

Where are you at? That can make the difference on what services/evaluations are available, and someone on WP might have information on where to seek help.

My son is 11, and going back to school every year is always a stressful time for me as I wonder how he will get along with his peers/teachers/school environment etc. this year. Each year seems to bring its own new challenges.

What kind of bullying is your child experiencing? Maybe someone on WP has some advice on how to get ready for the new year and the baffling social expectations.

Sure sounds like AS to me! My son was diagnosed Aspergers and he DID have a speech delay, but it wasnt significant. He did have words and use language, he was just behind his peers, mostly in articulation(he was alwo born with a cleft lip and palate, contributed to his speech issues). With speech, he QUICKLY cought up and surpassed his peers in expressive and receptive skills, though at nearly 7 he still gets speech for artic lingering issues from his cleft palate.

I would highly suggest some reading on Aspergers. My son is and always was extremely affectionate, he is the most huggy person you will meet! He makes great eye contact, always had imaginative play, etc...yet he has AS. My son always preferred adults, older kids or younger kids over peers, still does to this day.

Who is evaluating your son? Is it the school district??

I agree with everyone that you should get an evaluation.

Apart from that, does he have any sensory issues? I think you also need to have some sort of sensory issue to get a diagnosis of ASD.

Be sure and take this list with you to the eval, any emails you have from the school discussing these issues might also be helpful. Perhaps ask his teacher if she would be willing to write a letter to the psychologist describing her observations. Ideally you want him tested using the ADOS. Our insurance covered this testing, if you can find someone who does the ADOS, ask what billing code they will use, then call your insurance and ask if they cover that code.

A good book for you to start with is Parenting Your Asperger Child. It has good descriptions and you might recognize similarities with your son.

Thanks for advice, in answer to your question, this would be on the public health service in my country, a very slow -moving service unfortunately. As regards the bullying, it was all verbal abuse, only one physical incident. He asks me why these children were so angry with them - it's like he just doesn't understand what would motivate them to be continually nasty to him. I would actually love to homeschool him for this reason, but I know there would be huge opposition within the wider family, and if/when he is diagnosed, they would still think mainstream schooling would be best for him.

Thank you, when you say sensory issue, could you give me an example please? I can't say I've noticed anything in this regard, but maybe I'm just not understanding what kind of issues may come under this category.

Thanks, I'll look into that.

Look up sensory processing disorder. Many people on the spectrum have issues with this. For example sounds may sound louder than they would to a neurotypical person, and you may see your son blocking his ears.

this is a rather long article, but if you scroll down, it gives good examples of each type of sensitivity.
http://www.behavioradvisor.com/SID.html

I am in the US and so I don't really know anything about "public heath service" but maybe someone else will have some advice if they know what country you are in. If you don't feel comfortable revealing that on the internet, that is understandable.

As for the bullying, many times for children on the autism spectrum with AS, the issue is not vocabulary, but pragmatic or social language skills, and nonverbal language skills. While it is never okay for another child to bully, some of the conflict could be eased by beginning to educate your child on the basic social skills necessary for school. You might look up social stories for making friends, social stories for introducing, social stories for school etc. There are several powerpoint versions and youtube video versions. Even if your child does not have AS, the social skills videos can be helpful.

He sounds like my daughter, right down to her propensity to draw sometimes more than 50 drawings in a day. I know many parents keep their kids drawings, but I would literally need a storage room for all of hers. Not hardly kidding. She will even sneak stuff into her bed at night to draw with.

The good news is, my daughter is doing really, really well. It is not unreasonable for you to hope the same for your son.

One product that I like is Michelle Garcia Winner's superflex curriculum. You start first with a book called You Are A Social Detective. Using this was the first time it ever dawned on my daughter that other people have thoughts about her. It has helped her with a lot of social interactions. We also spend a LOT of time verbally walking through all kinds of social situations so she will know what to do if they present themselves at school.

You've received a lot of good advice. Good luck!

My younger son didn't get a diagnosis as he makes good eye contact (stares at people who are speaking to him) and they considered him having no speech delay was keeping him off the spectrum. My older son had no speech delay, but it has taken up to 5 years for him to speak to 'new' people in his life as he doesn't know them well enough. Really it depends a lot on who is doing the assessment I believe.
My younger boy's teacher and principal are horrified at the lack of diagnosis and have asked the psych to spend some time in his class. She has refused and tells me she believes schools want the diagnosis to access extra funding.

Hi,

I read through your post and was nodding in agreement at alot of it, particularly these parts (my daughter has just turned 7 btw)....

My daughter has had a lifelong obsession with teddy bears, she takes her 2 favourites everywhere, including to school events (so when we go in to see her assemblies, 'teddy' and 'little oof' have to come too). Her other major obsession at the moment is monster high, she used to be obsessed with hello kitty but she moved onto monster high about a year ago and has over 30 of the dolls now (as well as a ton of other MH stuff).

She has an obsession with Michael Jackson that keeps cropping up, at the moment she's not as obsessed so isn't constantly listening to his songs or watching the moonwalker dvd, but when her obsession peeks again she will no doubt be trying to get her school friends to sing his songs with her which always causes problems. Poor thing once spent hours writing out 5 sets of lyrics to the song leave me alone, carefully highlighting each friends parts to sing in different colours so they could all sing it together at show and tell. Of course her friends did not want to sing it because they didn't know the song....that caused a massive meltdown when she got home because she was so hurt that they did not share her enthusiasm for the song.


My daughter is very artistic/creative she will draw for hours, she loves to make things and design and sing and act and anything that lets her creativity come out. We have hundreds of drawings about the house and unfortunately I have to throw alot out because she draws so much we don't have the space for them all (she does at least a dozen drawings or paintings a day). Her teacher has commented on it many times that she always knows which piece of work is my daughter's because it will have a little flower, or butterfly etc drawn in a corner.


My daughter can say things that are very grown up compared to her peers but she's always been like that so it never really stood out much but more and more I'm noticing she uses quite big words for her age or the tone she uses is not what I'd expect for someone her age (although she's my only child so I dont really know what's 'normal'). Example something was annoying her and she said "mummy I really do not appreciate that, can you make it stop" or when her therapist warned her the fire alarm was going to go off at 10am she said "right well can you let me know exactly how long it will go on for, because the bell at my school is extremely loud and really irritating and how long before it's 10 o'clock?"

As for taking things literally I keep having to remind people not to use too many metaphors or sarcasm etc around her because it just confuses her. We were early for an appointment a little while ago and my husband suggested we do a bit of shopping and I said "yeah because that will kill a bit of time". My daughter needed an explanation as to what I meant because she thought I meant chop up a clock or something. Even simple every day terms like "just a minute" she will keep asking "how long is a minute? Are you ready yet? how long will you be?".



Oh this is my daughter completely. She was invited to a birthday party at the last minute (we were asked Friday night) so I told her on the day that she would be going to a roller skating party. 2 minutes later she had her skates on sat on the sofa and asked when we were leaving. I told her not until after lunch, she must have asked me a million times yesterday if we were going yet, she didn't take her skates off apart from when she sat and had lunch, despite me saying she didn't need to take them that they'd have them at the party. We are planning on going to a theme park next week sometime, guaranteed the second she wakes up (probably really early like 6am) she will be jumping on our bed asking if we are leaving yet and she will continue to ask until we are out the door. She'll have her bags packed...one bag for in the car (toys and teddies), a lunchbag filled with food for the car and she will be dressed and ready to go before we even have our breakfast. She will complain constantly that we are taking too long, that she's bored, are we leaving yet, I tell her what time we are leaving and she will check the time every few minutes and tell us the time and still ask are we going yet? So if I say we are leaving at 9.15am she will keep checking the time "it's 8.32...when are we going?"...."it's 8.35 are we going soon?"...."it's 8.39, are we leaving yet?"




The two things that keep cropping up for us with relation to getting her a diagnosis are the fact she can maintain eye contact most of the time, she's very friendly (so doesn't shy away from the various Dr's & therapists) and she can do imaginative play.

The thing the professionals don't see though are the way in which she plays, yes it's 'imaginative' but 90% of the time she is mimicking a tv show or film or even if it is something she has more or less made up we play the same thing over and over an din a very strict way. At the moment she has 4 things that we play, she 'sells things' to her dolls and then we have a competition to see who has the best thing, some other form of competition either beauty (inspired by toddlers and tiaras), singing (x-factor) or dancing (britain's got talent) etc or we have interviews for films before filming starts. We have big lists of which doll is doing which role (including things like choreographer, director, make-up, set designer as well as the actors) then once everyone has a role to play we set them up to shoot the first scene.

It's always me doing the talking and the moving though she rarely moves the dolls or makes them talk, she directs me "right mummy clawd has to say this and then make cleo do this" and I have to do it exactly or she will get annoyed and ask me to do it again. It's one of the reasons she won't let her dad play dolls or bears with her because he doesn't follow her script properly, if she tells him to make a teddy say "hello my name is teddy and today I'm going to show you how to do gymnastics" he may get one word wrong or mix it up a bit (i. e "I'm teddy, today I'll show you how to do gymnastics") and it infuriates her because it has to be said word for word. THAT is what they don't see, same with the eye contact, she can manage it if she's in a good mood which is most of the time but if she's feeling down or worried about something she can't maintain eye contact (that's how I know alot of the time something is playing on her mind).

As for school work my daughter was always above average for reading/writing but is below average for maths, she's a very visual thinker and can't get her head around maths, she needs images to relate to numbers. I have a nice little app on my tablet that uses fruit alongside numbers to do maths, so 4 apples + 5 pears is how much fruit altogether. Or 6 apples 3 get eaten how many left? She can do those no problem but ask her the most basic maths question 1 + 2 she can't automatically do it, but she can if it's visual, so I will say you have teddy and along come big oof and little oof (2 dog teddies) how many altogether and she says 3 with no hesitation.




What has the school done to stop the bullying? 5 seems very young for bullying to start already I'd have thought the teacher would have picked up on that right away. Also are you sure it's bullying? My daughter is very very sensitive and misunderstands things all the time so I have to question her over and over when she comes home claiming someone has been mean to her or hurt her or pushed her over 'on purpose'.

Example...her and some friends were playing war, she was swinging her cardigan around and one of the kids got hit with it, they all got told off by a dinner lady, my daugter was furious (because she didn't know she'd accidentallty hit someone) she had allsorts of thougths racing in her mind and sat alone trying to make sense of everything. Her 2 best friends came over to see what was wrong and she verbally abused them (in her mind it was their fault she got in trouble because they suggested playing war), her friends then said she was being mean...they argued and then that day she comes home claiming girl A and B have picked on her. After hours of talking to her about it I get the full story and it took me a while to get her to understand that they were not picking on her, she had an arguement and that she said just as many mean things as they did and that they were not intentionally trying to annoy her by coming over to talk to her when she was upset.

Another example was she came home with a chunk of skin missing from her elbow, she claimed a boy had pushed her over, another few hours of going through what happened and it turns out they had all been playing tag. The boy in question was 'it' and as he chased after her, she tripped, hurt herself and blamed him because 'it was his fault for chasing her'.

By all means get it nipped in the butt if it is bullying but just double check because my daughter is so sensitive to things and I know that when she says child X has picked on her 9/10 times they have argued or something as simple as not sharing a particualr felt tip in her mind is being picked on (she came home and cried her eyes out because a girl was picking on her...all that had happened was she'd said no when my daughter had asked if she could use the pink felt tip after her). That's just my daughter though everything is the end of the world with her and it takes alot of talking to get the full story and get her to understand that what's taken place is not bullying or being picked on but an arguement or a misunderstanding or just someone being a bit rude.

When she was really little at pre-school (age 3) she would scream and cry if someone tapped her on the shoulder or accidentally bumped into her, claiming that they had hit her because she was so sensitive and shy at the time.

I hope it's not bullying that has happened with your son, if it is though keep a close eye on him and make sure every incident is reported to the teacher, if they clamp down on it now then hopefully it will not get any worse. I would go in and speak to your son's new teacher and just make her aware of his issues and that your currently seeking a diagnosis for him, maybe even take a little info in for him/her to read. How far have you got with an assesment? I'm assuming your in the UK? We've had an uphill stuggle to get anywhere CAMHS are bouncing us around but our GP has been great and is referring her directly to an autism clinic.

Good luck with the school and getting a diagnosis

To the above poster, thanks so much for your detailed reply, it was very very enlightening.

It sometimes feels like with my son I'm in a strange country and need a map to fathom everything out as regards his behaviours. I know them now inside out, and I know what each behaviour means, it's just knowing how I should respond to them, as in, which response is best for him. I am on the road to getting a diagnosis now, if there is one to be got, but it's a long road, and I expect many struggles along the way.

The things I'm not sure about are, for example, should I try and suppress his obsessions with certain topics of interest, or let him get on with it? In the past I think i was guilty of fuelling his obsessions, he would want to find out every last detail about something, and I would be proud of his desire for knowledge, and find every last detail out for him. And then there's his quirky habits - it used to be running along looking at horizontal lines out of the corner of his eye, now he's wiping his mouth obsessively, not that it needs wiping, he just can't stop it, so much so that the corners of his mouth are getting redder by the minute. I'm applying cream and telling him to stop nicely, but, like I said, I need a map for his country. I don't know how best to deal with his behaviours.