The importance of interaction in developing language

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I was told that the reason language is delayed or non-existent in some severely autistic individuals is that they lack the ability to socially interact. This worries me quite a bit as my son is obviously not "social". But, at the same time, I have seen many autistics who can talk / communicate quite well, indeed, despite being quite disinterested in social interactions.

How did these people learn to talk / communicate ? And is there ANYTHING that a parent could do, to foster an interest in wanting to communicate with others ? Advise, please ? Thanks !

My advice, as an aspie, is to give him a reason to talk. My youngest son didn't talk till about 3 and it was because he didn't have to. At least thats what I think. He was carried around and handed everything so he didn't have to do much at all. His older brother and sister just catered to him. His first word was "mine!" when one of them finally wouldn't let him have something.

I remember trying to teach my first kid to talk. We were always saying things and trying to get him to repeat them. His first word was Daddy, then he learned Roll Tide, touchdown, and THEN he learned Mama. My second baby's first word was eat. My third's was "mine" and the youngests was "titty" cause she was breastfed until she was almost 2. They seemed to actually put forth the effort to talk when they needed something that they just couldn't get across any other way, like with yelling or waving their arms.

I would suggest not being as forthcoming with things. Make him have to somehow get across to you what he wants. ut don't be all "You need to say cookie and you can have one" type thing. If he wants a cookie, and you know he does, totally ignore that fact. Make him do something to tell you. If he just yells for it, say "I can't understand you, what?" type thing. Obviously don't do it for really important stuff, but for the smaller stuff you have to make the kid put forth the effort. This is the advice from a mother of NT's though, although I think my younger son may actually be aspie too, so take it for what it's worth.

My son (age 4.5) is JUST starting to get socially interactive now. He is finally starting to request things independently without prompting and without grabbing my hand to lead me to what he wants.

He is also trying to have conversations with us though it's pretty much all jargon, nonsense words and math problems. But he's getting there. A year ago he wasn't doing any of this.

does he have a speech therapist? I can see how the socializing thing can assist in speech, what about desires? Wants and needs? If he wants something maybe that will motivate him to speak, but he might need training like sign or PECS to make the connection that he needs to make a request in order to get what he wants.

good luck, and if you do have a speech therapist maybe ask her for some ideas and how she is working toward your son having communication?

Although some of the skills involved in social interaction are necessary for language development, I really don't think it's accurate to say that the reason some autistic children are non-verbal or speech-delayed is because the have "no ability to interact socially"....

There are probably a lot of different reasons that autistic children may have difficulty with speech, or never develop speech at all -- I'm inclined to think that all of them boil down to differences in how autistic brains work. A few examples of possible difference (which can apply to non-autistic folk, too):

• Some autistic people have auditory processing disorders (an ordinary hearing-acuity test will show they can hear just fine, but they can't make any sense of what they hear -- competing sounds might get jumbled together, or the person might not be able to hear a difference between similar sounds like "s", "f" and "th").
  
• Some autistic people have difficulty with praxis (getting their bodies -- in this case their mouths and vocal cords -- to move according to their wishes) and can't physically get the words out.
  
• Some autistic people have information processing issues that make it difficult to learn/use language. They may have difficulty with executive functioning and short-term memory and can't simultaneously hear a word, remember it, and attach meaning to it, and then compare it to other words and/or non-verbal information in context -- at least not with any degree of ease! They may struggle with auditory abstraction -- or with abstract thought generally. (Language is inherently abstract -- it is a system of symbolic communication.) They may think visually, or spatially, or kinesthetically...it can be difficulty to tie spoken language to those kinds of thought systems.
  
• Some autistic people may have more general sensory processing issues and be completely overwhelmed by the onslaught of the ordinary world. When a person is overwhelmed to such a degree that they must constantly regulate the information coming in at them in order to just feel safe and/or to (metaphorically or literally) feel the ground beneath their feet (by stimming, withdrawing, or both), they cannot focus on anything else. Coping with the sensory onslaught becomes all that is possible -- learning abstract concepts like language is difficult, if not impossible, in this state.

Language -- especially when used in dynamic, real-time interaction -- is an extremely complex skill that depends on a number of neurological processes. If any one of those neurological processes is compromised (or maybe even just works in a way that is very different from that of the neurotypical population), then language development will be affected. The same complexity applies to social skills -- except to an exponentially greater degree...it also becomes more complicated when you talk about "social skills" because that term encompasses so very many things. I ramble on about this because I think it's important to understand that it's complicated, that language development and social interaction aren't simple one-dimensional things that you either learn or you don't -- can do or can't do.



About the "many autistics who can talk/communicate quite well [...] despite being quite disinterested in social interactions" -- how do you know that they are disinterested in social interaction? Did they explicitly say something like, "I am not intersted in social interaction"? And if they did, did they ever tell you if there was a reason why?

Autistic people may want or need less social interaction than a neurotypical person. They may be unable to socialize as much because of the effort it takes (it can be exhausting), or they may want/need to socialize in ways that are unfamiliar/strange/unrecognizable to neurotypical people....they may give no visible indication of their desire to interact with others, even when they long for social connections. Sometimes, they may just be unable to recognize your behaviors as an attempt to connect with them -- perhaps in the same way that you might be unable to recognize their attempts to connect with you.

I'm not trying to say that all autistic people are interested in social interaction (I'm quite sure there are autistic people -- and people who are not autistic -- who have no interest in social interaction and that's just who they are, there is no reason why), I'm just saying be careful with any assumptions you make about how an autistic person feels or thinks -- especially if you are basing those assumptions on expectations built up around the ways that neurotypical people act and communicate (because they might not apply)....assumptions can impede communication and connection, and can be very damaging to people and to relationships.




I'm not sure if you're asking for advice on how to help your son develop language skills or how to help your son develop an interest in communicating, so I'll answer as if you asked both things...

I imagine that how a person learns language skills (basic semantics and word-structures/grammar) really depends on the person, their particular neurology and their learning style. I am a visual-spatial and pattern thinker so I learned language first as visual and sound patterns (no meaning, or idiosyncratic meanings, attached). I read and read, picking up words and language patterns without meaning -- I repeated things I heard, either because it seemed I was supposed to say something or because I was trying to communicate something specific in an idiosyncratic way. I filled in many of the actual word-meanings years later...it's an ongoing process. The fact that I have been able to develop the language skills I've got doesn't mean that another autistic person will be able to do the same -- or, if they are able to do the same, that they will develop their language skills in the same way as I did mine.

Is your son drawn to visual things? Perhaps he's a visual learner -- in which case I can only echo the suggestions of other posters: using PECS cards or something similar might be the way to start. You could try labelling everything in the house, and putting labels on picture-cards (the hope being that he would start to associate words with actual things). You could also try sign language. Does he really like music and experiment with sounds a lot (sounds he can make with objects, or his own voice)? You could try singing instead of talking, or say things via simple poems -- put your words to repeating melodies or rhyme (apparently some autistic people--myself included--seem to pick up language better when there is a rhythmic or melodic pattern attached to the words...I have no idea why). Whatever you try, I do think looking into speech therapy is a good idea -- the issue may have nothing to do with his interest in learning to speak and everything to do with an inability to do so.

In terms of encouraging an interest in communication/interaction more generally, I suggest:

• Let him be himself and try not to force him to act normal just for the sake of acting normal -- acting normal may be acutely painful or disabling for him...If he doesn't make eye contact, it could be because eye contact is overwhelming to the point where he cannot stand it (people's faces contain a lot of visual detail and move a lot -- that's how they convey so much information -- and this can be too much information for some people, resulting in an overload-state), it could be because it prevents him from using peripheral vision (some people see better using peripheral than central vision) or because it prevents him from being able to use other senses if he has sensory integration issues. If he is fidgety, stimmy and hyperactive, it could be because sitting still or stifling his fidgeting or stimming may prevent him from self-regulating, feeling comfortable in (or simply feeling the existance of) his own skin, or focusing his attention. Ask yourself honestly: Would you be keen to interact with people who forced you to do things that caused you unbearable physical discomfort, or made it difficult for you to see or hear properly?
  
• Look hard for the ways he might be trying to communicate with you already -- non-verbally. (You might be reassured by this article: http://www.chicagoparent.com/magazines/archives/2004/essay) I do not intend to minimize the difficulties that having language deficits or being non-verbal creates, nor do I assume that your son is trying to communicate with you (there's no way I could know that) .... I just don't think a person absolutely needs verbal speech to interact or communicate with others in meaningful and fulfilling ways... the people I understand best (and feel most often and most deeply understood by) are the ones who know how -- or at least try -- to communicate with me without using words.

Wow animalcrackers! You have so many good points in there. I hope we can get a link to your post in the Parenting Index Sticky. There probably needs to be a new category in that sticky called Communication.

A Speech Pathologist should be able to help find out what part of the language system needs attention.

I think it's important to make the distinction between communicating and talking. My son easily learned to give me a picture for something when it became clear to him this was the only way to get it. As the poster above was saying, a lot of our kids have problems physically as well, my son can't physically control his sounds well enough to produce words yet, but with practice he might eventually be able to. Signs are a bit difficult for him as well due to his motor issues, but he can do some simple ones that don't require very good fine motor skills.
I also agree that sometimes it seems like our children aren't interested in social interaction, and that simply isn't always the case. Some children do not show strong facial reactions to things, my son does not show much emotional reactions. But by observing his behaviours you can see that it's not because the emotions or motivation isn't there, it's that he doesn't show it in the typical way, so it can be misinterpreted as lack of interest. I've also been told that he, as many other children with autism, has a tendency to give up because it is so exhausting for him to get his point across and get his body to do what he wants. So he really needs other people to keep encouraging him, because on his own he will simply stop trying.
Does your child use any pictures or gestures at all? I found that my son was very cut off until we got him to use his first picture, then all of a sudden it clicked for him that he could affect the people around him. Communication is so important. It usually begins with requesting a highly motivating item, so I'd start there.

I would also note that there is a HUGE gap between "prefers not to interact in social situations," which I think (or at least hope) is what your therapists meant, and "doesn't interact socially." Interactions between you and your son are social interactions. If he engages in interactions with you to get what he wants, that's a form of communication.

He doesn't need to win popularity contests, he needs practice communicating with actual people - but if actual people means you and his other caregivers, that counts. The more varied interactions he has the more practice he'll get (thus the push towards socializing) but you can still practice no matter what.

I am guessing that you'll get more practice in a situation he's comfortable with where he actually wants to communicate than in a situation that makes him shut down.

Now, I'm no therapist nor am I remotely nonverbal, so that's just from what I know of being around different kinds of kids on the spectrum that we run into, but it sounds reasonable to me.

DIR/Floortime is all about fostering the interest in communicating, might be worth checking into.

I thought I would share this website with you: http://jamesdmacdonald.org/Articles/MacDonaldStart.html
It's a slightly different approach than most and focuses on parents as "communicating partners." The idea is that you imitate your child's sounds or attempts to speak in order to encourage him to communicate. Dr. MacDonald feels that many children are overwhelmed by the demands of communication (asked to say too many words, asked to listen to "speeches") and so a sense of play needs to return to communication. There's a yahoo group for parents, as well.
J.

I would say that some autistic children have no ability to socially interact, because they lack language and communication instead of the other way around. I don't think that social interaction is the way to learn language and communication for a child with severe autistic traits. Explicit teaching is. Teach language explicitly, like you would teach a typical child a foreign language. Teach reading and writing/typing before listening and speaking. Listening and speaking can develop from reading and writing, the opposite order for autistic children as for typical children. That's how I learned. I communicated almost nothing when I was a child. I did not say anything, make any gestures, or lead anyone to anything, but I did develop language through people teaching me language explicitly. The order of my development was like this: language ---> communication ---> social interaction. I had severe autistic traits, and I could not have learned any of this in the wrong order like this: social interaction ---> communication ---> language. This is the typical order. I can't say that this is the pattern for all autistic children with moderate/severe traits, but what I can say is that the wrong order of development seems to fail for many of them.

I think what constitutes communication can be broader than I think most folks think about it being. Behavior is a form of communication albeit not a consciously thought out one. Crying can be , "I am upset. Help me. I don't know how to tell you what is bothering me, but I need help to feel better." I think it helps to really broaden the definition because even understanding these types of situations (from context or experience) and assisting your child helps build the foundations of trust and communication. I think it is how it starts with babies and it follows IMO that it would follow for kids with delays.

My child's language skills are good but a lot of times he prefers bringing me food out of the fridge, say, instead of telling me he is hungry. When he was little I would show him I understood by serving what he brought me, without trying to force him to use language, because at that point it was more important to establish that I understood what he asked of me. I did reinforce the language by saying something like, "Ah, so you would like some cheese (or whatever)?" But I did not require repetition before serving it. Others may disagree on this, but It worked for our situation. It helped build confidence at a time when I could not figure out 90% of what he was trying to communicate.

Now that he is more comfortable with expressive language, I will prompt him to use language by either asking him if he wants me to serve what he gave me, or sometimes by asking if he is giving it to me to eat. (Sometimes he does offer me food, so it is not outlandish) Now that he has confidence I like to kind of let him know that language helps clear things up when there is ambiguity and to reinforce that people cannot read his mind.

I would figure out what successes you have in communicating, no matter how small, and then build from there. The fact that it is non-verbal communication is OK. Start from where you are.

I think this should be emblazened in gold, sparkly letters on the top of this board. This is critical.

A lot of aspie kids learn to talk what teachers call "by osmosis". (This is scientifically incorrect, because osmosis must involve water; the correct term here would be "absorption" or "diffusion", but whatever, the point is the same.) They listen to people around them talk, and in the process, pick up how different parts of speech fit together. It's not until school that they start to learn the language intellectually.

When I was a little, I loved to talk as soon as I learned how. I'd talk for hours to whoever was willing to listen, in a monolog. Unfortunately, my choice of listeners was very small. Kids at preschool didn't have the patience of listening to a rambling aspie kid, although in later age groups, they even came to me with questions about animals (I overheard kids say: "Ask Aspie1, he likes animals."). Adults other than parents did have the patience to listen to me, and interestingly, I somehow knew better than to "abuse the privilege". My parents, however, seemed to regret teaching me to talk, because they were constantly telling me "be quiet!" or "stop talking!". This happened so frequently, that until age five, I had lingering beliefs that my name was B. Quiet (I also responded to my real name).

It'd probably be a lot different for autistic kids, who have language delays/impairments that AS kids don't. So teach them language, you need to teach intellectually, the same way you teach social skills. An ESL or EFL (English as a Second Language and English as a Foreign Language, respectively) would work wonders. Nearly all foreign language textbooks start out by teaching what matters most: manners. That's "hi", "bye", "please", "thank you", "excuse me", etc. Next thing they teach is usually expressing basic human needs: food, drink, sleep/lodging, bathroom, and clothes. Then body parts or family relationships. And so on. So the books will also help with social interaction, as well as language.

This was just how it was for me. I needed to learn language intellectually, because unlike Aspie and NT kids, I did not pick up on language from being around people speaking around me. Also did not pick up communication and social interaction from people around me. Needed to learn those things intellectually too. ESL was the source of all three - language, communication, social interaction. Non-verbal communications like pointing and gesturing, I learned years after I learned how to use language for communication.