Helping your child navigate "annoying kids"

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DS is doing pretty well in middle school. I worry about his current group of friends, but thus far we seem to have stasis, so none of the things that sounded bullying-like to me have turned out to be so, near as I can figure out.

However, he is now coming home with stories of his little group of friends teasing and excluding other children. For instance, there was one situation where he told me how he told his friends to stop playing a "cooties" or "cheese-touch" kind of game involving a kid they all seem to think is gay. The other kids didn't stop and DS didn't know quite what to do and admitted that afterward he joined in.

He also tried to defend another kid who seems to be socially inept and possibly on the spectrum, but now that kid won't leave him alone (he followed him to the car after school and DS was very uncomfortably trying to politely leave.)

He talks about a kid in his social skills class who "won't shut up!" and how annoying he is, and how nobody likes him and he doesn't have any friends - at least in the previous two situations he showed some sympathy for the kids, but in this one, he doesn't.

There are some social skills nuances here that he needs help navigating, and I'm a bit at a loss. In the first situation, I told him to talk to the school counselor when they had an opportunity - but the counselor didn't offer any helpful advice. I'm frankly not sure, but I told him the best thing to do, since he stated his case, was to try to distract everyone from that game somehow - tell a joke, change the conversation, etc.

In the second situation, he needs to be able to successfully set boundaries with this kid. He doesn't want to be friends with him, but he doesn't want to be mean or to give the kid the silent treatment, either. He's really uncomfortable with this kid's inability to pick up on social cues (yes, the irony is apparent.) I kind of understand this, as I have the same problem sometimes: two socially inept people sometimes can work together (like my husband and I do) to make each other better...but sometimes, they just derail each other and make things worse. This is especially a problem in a case like my son's, where he is aware of his deficits but the other kid doesn't seem to be. "Be nice" seems like hollow advice here; he needs a way to nicely set boundaries with this kid.

The third situation, I did talk to him about how it must feel for that boy, and how he very recently was in the same situation himself - but, again, I don't know what to tell him to do. I think, again, he needs to be able to politely set some boundaries, but neither of us know how.

I have to follow this discussion. My son has had similar issues. He is in 6th grade, but has talked about a few situations since 4th grade. He is very sensitive to people misbehaving or being mistreated. He'd often get upset with his friend about misbehaving or not playing fair. His sense (or should I say need) of fairness is very strong. Occasionally I think he might have ASD but I think it is probably just his sensitive personality and maybe social anxiety. I might bring it up at his next exam. But, I think even NT kids have this issue. Definitely could use any extra ideas.

Oh my goodness gracious. You are so correct when you say the irony is apparent.

Do you remember I showed this to you momsparky. http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp4589583.html#4589583

At the time I felt disrespected. My feelings was denied by this guy. At the time I was pissed as well. I do know he has social issues himself and he is an aspie just like me. I am not mad at him anymore because it is like dealing with myself. It makes me wonder would NTs feel the same way I just did???

My wife says that I deny how she feels. I think I know how she feels now. I really do have theory of mind issues. This gives me an idea. For something like this, your DS needs to have a frame of reference. Your DS would have to know what it is like to be excluded or ignored and be reminded of this with particular incidents.

This is what I've been doing, and it does seem to be getting through - but it doesn't give him a plan of action. He knows the other kids feel bad - he doesn't know what to do about it. (Though he's somewhat less empathetic for the last kid.)

I don't know if I really have any suggestions - maybe because I'm feeling braindead at the moment - but I have to chuckle at that word, "annoying." It used to be my son's favorite word. Sometimes I would swear 99.99999% of the people in this world were "annoying" to him.

I basically told him that it was his problem, not theirs, he wasn't going to get rid of the people and he should learn to handle feeling annoyed. Although I said it a lot nicer and offered suggestions and strategies along the way

He doesn't get quite as annoyed anymore.

Maybe it's a middle school thing. Middle school boys ARE annoying

Ain't that the truth! I suppose I should be grateful, though - the boys are annoying but the girls are just plain mean.

That has been really difficult for me. My son often sees interactions as bullying or purposeful, and it takes a full blown investigation to figure out when it is bullying or just misinterpretation. Luckily my son is getting better at being able to tell the whole story so we can carefully evaluate and reinterpret (using comic strip type bubbles for thinking/saying differences) situations. It is slowly getting better. Still, he was sure that a teacher talking to him in the hallway meant she was angry and he was in trouble, when really she was trying to follow his IEP for giving him directives away from other students. He was also sure that when another student corrected how he said someone's name that they were making fun of him. Turns out that they were just correcting him, because he always says the guys name wrong and it was starting to get on the kids nerves. Yet the kids do leave him out, call him names, and say things sarcastically that he doesn't get but knows they are laughing at him. So, I understand his sensitivity to these situations.



I don't know how good/bad this is, but there is a whole campaign on "Don't be a bystander" to stop bullying. http://www.stopbullying.gov/respond/be- ... index.html




I have found that teaching my son to do the same things with others that I teach his sister to do with him works well.

1) Don't assume they know what you want or what you are doing. IE "We are leaving now. I have to stop talking now. (Smile) See you tomorrow."
2) If they are doing something annoying. Its okay to say its annoying, but sandwich it with two reassuring comments "I want to be your friend. I am getting annoyed by you following me. Please stop. We can talk more tomorrow. Bye"
3) If you can't think of a nice way to say it. Then make it about your feelings "I am frustrated right now. I need to be alone."

Also, my son will just say "but I don't want to be his friend, he's annoying." So, we drew a rings on a paper with him in the middle and made rings of friends, with the inner ring being him and whoever he felt closest to, the next ring being kids that were nice to him, and outside the ring being kids who were mean to him. Then we pointed out that he doesn't want to be that kid who is outside (mean) on someone else's friend rings. Its okay to be in the outside ring, just nice. Everybody isn't friends with everybody. This has been moderately successful. I am still looking for a better way to explain it.




This is a hard one for us too. If my son doesn't like someone or thinks he is doing something on purpose or just really gets on his nerves, he has no desire to be nice or patient.

THANK YOU, Eureka-C - this is very, very helpful! I especially like the "I want to be your friend. I am getting annoyed by you following me. Please stop. We can talk more tomorrow. Bye" DS and I have to figure out how to translate that into middle-school-boy English, but it's a really good start (plus, I don't think he actually wants to be this kid's friend but I think we can figure out an analog for that)

My daughter also has one girl that annoys her severely. This girl makes faces at my daughter behind the teacher's back (which distresses my daughter severely-partly because of the faces and partly because it's behind the teacher's back and my daughter sees it as an insult to the teacher). This girl seems to be very wise about how to be sneaky about her actions so my daughter therefore feels it's her job to watch her like a hawk. Each day I get the list of all the rude, annoying things this girl did. I really don't know how to deal with it-I just tell my daughter how that's very rude but it's the teacher's job to stop...but the problem is the teacher doesn't see it. It's almost as if my daughter is fighting for the honor of the teacher every day.

This girl also makes sounds/gestures that are especially annoying to my daughter. Lots of "tsk"s and clucking. And she has a way of patronizing my daughter by saying "Really Grace, REALLY???" as if my daughter is crazy for saying/acting the way she does.

It drives me mad to hear about it and I've witnessed it too but in the long run, it's this girl that's going to have the rough/bad life with an attitude like she has! I've thought about going to another school to get away from her but I am sure there are girls like this in every school across America.

Eureka-C, that sounds like great advice. I was thinking of this thread today, because my little DS also needs help with letting people know he needs space if he's feeling overwhelmed, or if they are annoying him. I knew it had to be done in a nice way and the way you have explained it sounds perfect. Thanks from me too! I hope it works momsparky, will you let us know how it goes?

I agree, the suggestions from Eureka-C are fantastic ones for the tool box. Wish I'd thought of those sentences when I was facing the issue most severely.

Richard notices how other kids treat one another and he is also getting bullied.

A teacher actually said that it was alright for Richard to hit the boy who hit him.

He goes to a school that is "ghetto" and I hate saying that, but it is true.

The principal hasn't called me yet. I asked for a session with the principal.

Yes, I will have to think about language for Richard to say.

Dunno:

What about these?

"I'm not participating in this mess."

"Think what you want."

"That is you not me."

"This is your problem, you own it, not me."

or just

"Ok"

"This is your problem not mine."


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I will chime in when I can. This week has been h-e-double-chop-sticks.

Questioning, there is a new episode of Autism talk tv (episode 24) on Wrong Plane,t on how to stop bullying and teasing. I just watched it, was interesting... might give you some things to try.
Good luck!

I was bullied as a kid. I would often be told how to respond to the bullies but all my comebacks were always met with further derision. I guess I could never execute the delivery convincingly enough so it just made me more laughable.

You need someone who is familiar with how kids at his school talk, so that he uses language that will blend in -- I can see the "not participating" one making him more of a target. The others seem ok to me, but I'm not familiar with that culture so I could be wrong.