Really tired, not sure if this is Aspergers or Brattiness.

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I really need help! I'm so tired of parenting. I just have this rollercoaster relationship with my daughter! We have amazing days, then we have horrible days like today. My DD is almost 9! After guitar practice I asked her to pick up her shoes from the front door. She ignored me even after I called her several times. She was hiding in the bathroom ignoring me so I told her that I was going to place them on her desk, knowing that in order for her to use the to use her computer, she'd have to put them away. So, she races out of the bathroom and throws them on the floor, then I tell her to put them away. She races to her room and throws them in her closet, then gets angry cuz she's really anal about her room looking perfect and goes into a full blown angry fit because I asked her to pick up her shoes, for yelling at her, for throwing her shoes in her room! I was like, wait a minute, I never threw anything in your room! then she slammed the door to her room after we've had several conversations with her telling her that slamming the door out of anger is unacceptable. I told her that she lost her electronics for the night, so she proceeded to tell me how the next time I left anything out, I was going to have get it and she kept yelling and screaming so I just told her that I didn't want to hear anything else and to go to her room. She went into her room, did her homework and fell asleep. I'm just so tired of these outbursts. Last week she told me that she hated me because I woke her up from a nap because she had fallen asleep and not done her homework or eaten or taken a bath. I rubbed her back for like 5 minutes, told her sweet things and even made a cute little drawing for her but then thought it was enough and lost a bit of my patients and told her to just get up cuz I had to go cook dinner and she wanted me to keep rubbing her back and then she started sobbing and telling me how much she hated me. She's constantly telling me horrible things, like my hair looks like the clown from McDonalds, how I'm old and fat. I mean, I'm pretty normal looking for my age. I happen to think I look fine! I'm in my 30s. I mean, I remember thinking my mom was beautiful at her age. My husband and I are always complimenting her, telling her she's smart, pretty, funny, intelligent, etc.

I'm not sure if this is regular brattiness or Asperger's. I'm so confused. I don't want to take her to the doctor and seem like a crazy obsessed or bad parent. The reason why I suspect Aspergers is:

1. She hates kisses
2. I've noticed she can only have one friend at a time, actually breaks up with friends when she meets one she likes better even after I tell her all the consequences of "dumping" friends like if things don't work out with this new friend, you will have isolated yourself and you won't have other friends to be with, I try to tell her how hurt the other friend will feel, I ask her how she would feel if a friend broke up with her. She just doesn't care, she says the old friend is boring and she's always coming around and trying to talk to her and then she becomes possessive and jealous of the new friend which I imagine is overwhelming. Eventually, they want to be with other girls and she comes home crying and I have to sit with her for hours. Hugging her and giving her advise, telling her how it's normal for girls to have many friends.
3. She seems apathetic at times. Her best friend from first grade moved away and I don't think she missed her for a second, doesn't want to call her, says she doesn't miss her. Doesn't miss family, etc.
4. She hates talking on the phone (okay, I do too) she won't call a friend to plan a play date, won't talk to her grandmother on the phone or her cousins that live in another state. I sometimes have to force her to pick up the phone when her dad calls if my hands are full of raw meat or something and she doesn't have the normal phone polite conversation, she is like "What do you want?"
5. She is very anxious in new situations and around new people, will not speak to a clerk or cashier for the life of her.
6. Is really rude to this one friend she has that's older and comes over some times. I really find it hard to believe that this older friend is so patient with her and I think it's because a lot of time, I intervene in the rudeness. Like she doesn't like to share her food, her chair, even her toys with her snatching them out of her hands, I always intervene. I jokingly correct my daughter, like when she says something mean, I'll say something like, on the inside, I'm sure she means that she's happy you came to visit. I'm always correcting her, telling her, this is your friend, when you have a friend, you share with them, you let them have part of your food, you can allow them to sit in your chair. You are the host! She is your guest. But it's like, I feel like these are skills she should have learned when she was younger, but we are still working on them.
7. She loves to be at home, hates going out except if it's something that is specifically for her. Hates doing anything that is for my husband or for me or not her favorite.

The strange part is, academically, she's perfect! Teachers love her. They tell me that they wish all the kids were like her. She's so intelligent. Both her father and I are science majors. Science comes really easy to her and so does math and she reads so many levels above her peers that they don't have books for her in her class. I could care less though, I buy her enough books at home. We're always trying to teach her new things. Her vocabulary is very good for her age and she's very intellectual and in public she's really well behaved most of the time.

I would say all her anger is directed at me.

She does sound like she is showing some signs of AS. Have you considered having her evaluated? Her outbursts at home and great performance at school are very typical of some aspies. They use up all their energy holding it together all day and just don't have anything left at the end of the day. The bit about the shoes is totally understandable if you think about it with this in mind. Not only did she have to hold it together all day at school, then she had a guitar lesson after that. What she needed was time to decompress, thus the hiding in the bathroom. To top it all off you added another demand on her and it was just more than she could take. Once a person reaches the meltdown stage, which is where she probably was, she is operating in fight or flight mode. The higher brain functions are not really working and she has a very hard time controlling her actions. I encourage you to read some posts here. You'll probably read a lot of stories that sound familiar to yours. The best thing you can do is learn as much as you can.

I have not had her evaluated. Every one is always telling me how well behaved she is. I'm so proud of that!

I sometimes think it's all in my head. Like maybe we are not strict enough with her and let her get away with being disrespectful but then I wonder why she acts the way she does. Even with how well she does academically, it's strange to see how much she hates school. She tells me every morning and is miserable all Sunday long dreading Monday. I don't remember being that way and then I ask my husband if that's normal and he says he hated school too so I just think it's normal and then there are days like yesterday when she was a perfect angel and I just think she's totally fine but I always know that the melt down is right around the corner.

Thoughts:

Having one friend at a time seems to be a possible indicator. Remembering back to that time, girls that age like to start forming packs. I don't know what the girls do nowadays but I remember girls in maybe 4th grade or so forming exclusive clubs with lots of drama. If your girl is in third grade, I don't think they had the clubs yet, but they were definitely playing in group activities.

Aspergers manifests differently in girls, so it may be harder for the school to spot it, especially if she is well-behaved and getting good grades. I do think it bears looking into though.

As far as the acting out at home, that could be because of stress at school, (and rigidity issues like with her room needing to be a certain way)both of which could be because of Aspergers. I don't know if that is when NT girls start getting into things with their mothers or not. I got into conflicts with my mother much later, but I am not NT. An NT person could better speak to that, to let you know if that is a possibility.

She sounds exactly like my daughter. I dont think you are being paranoid or seeming like a bad mother at all, I would suggest seeing a Dr anyway, if its not an ASD then theres still a problem here, they could assess her and find out she has an ASD or find out she doesnt but there are behavioural issues. This is not normal behaviour, it sounds very like my daughter! We have ups and downs, the good times are really great but the bad times are horrendous with outbursts of shouting fake crying, tantrums, slamming doors, threats, stamping feet, scowling at me, saying she hates me, pretending Im not her Mum in public. Its moved on from physical violence and spitting now shes 5, but that still occasionally flares up again.

My daughters doing great at school too, teachers dont see the meltdowns, neither do half my family so I also feel like its all aimed at me. But I know its just because shes been bottling it up all day at school and then when shes home with me she relaxes and all hell breaks loose! But it gets it out of her system and shes ready to go back the next day feeling happy agian. Shes a rollercoaster of emotions. I have learnt to get over things quicker and not let a bad morning ruin the whole day because she can snap out of it so quick I need to do the same.

My daughter tells me Im fat, old, wrinkly too, Im early 30s, not fat or wrinkly... yet, but she sees the details and doesnt think twice about saying things like that despite being told its rude.

I started out just seeing the doctor about her behaviour, mentioned nothing of autism at first. I left it to the Dr to refer whereever they thought she needed to be seen and we have ended up being assessed for AS. I am on antidepressants too which really help. Even if you just get help for yourself thats something!

If she does have AS you will find just reading up on it will help. I have read lots of books and forums and can understand her behaviour a lot more, which means I dont get so angry when she does these things because I know she doesnt mean the things she says and cant help lashing out when shes frustrated. Her behaviour has greatly improved because I can anticipate how she might feel about things, avoid situations that stress her, leave her alone when she needs space etc. We get along a lt better now, so things will get better for you

Good luck, stick around the forum and have a read of the threads, its really helpful Let us know what happens.

I get that a lot, right from when she was a baby. You have to remember that know her better than anyone else and you are not imagining these things, for you to come on here and post a thread it must be really getting you down. I get told how good my daughter is, how polite and sweet she is, when she was 2 and 3 she had the most awful tantrums at home and friends used to say they didnt believe she could have a tantrum at all. Also people say things like "oh they grow out of that", "all kids do that", "my kids are just the same", "girls dont get AS", "but shes so lovely she cant have AS". All of this is just their way of dealing with it so I dont talk to anyone who doesnt understand anymore, I talk to people on here and other friends with autistic kids, they truely understand. I still have friends that dont understand and its great to just be one of them sometimes, but friends with autistic kids are great too. It was getting me down and making me blame myself for not being a good enough parent, not being strict enough, spoiling her etc, but AS makes so much sense.

My daughter dreads school too, she goes to a wonderful private school that has everything she needs and I know she loves it really, but still gets moody on a Sunday and in the evenings when its school next day!

Part of why I felt so bad as a mother was because I would discuss these things with my husband and he would say its all normal, he was just the same....... then I made him take an online AS test and he came out as very likely AS, I on the other hand had a very low score. There you go, its all normal to him because he is the same, thats why his family dont believe me, its how they have always been and they dont know what its like to have kids without AS traits. For a long time he kept dismissing it and it wasnt until he did the test that he realised I was right, and the more we look the more AS traits we see all through the family, none are diagnosed because its only recently that parents are getting diagnosis for their kids, our generation just lived with it. Now he is on my side things are so much easier and we can both parent her the same together, knowing she needs to be parented in a way that doesnt come naturally, we have both adjusted to it and things have got better.

My ASD son is 4 and has communiction delaays,as well as other things. However, he knows that even when he is having a bad moment, he remembers his manners. I don't think being purposely insulting is an ASD trait,I think that is just bad manners and it is not tolerated at home.

If she is unhappy and you are unhappy that is reason enough in itself to get her evaluated. You can at least figure out what it isn't, even if you don't find out what it is.

However, as someone mentioned - don't rely on the school to find AS in an academically-performing kid. It isn't something they do unless the child is out of control. Go to your insurance and search for doctors who specialize in AS - a developmental pediatrician or pediatric neuropsychologist. Ideally, you want to find a center that houses multidisciplinary services, so those AND a speech therapist, family therapists, and occupational therapists - they will probably provide the most accurate diagnosis and most immediate help once you get a diagnosis.

Be aware that there is a long waiting period, so start looking soon!

You might also want to look at the resources stickied on the top of this board - read through some of them and see if they make sense to you. As for the after-school blowup, you might try some kind of written bullet-pointed schedule that lists all the things she is supposed to do. Post it somewhere (you can even make it a checklist if that helps) and just point to it when she needs direction.

Something like this: http://www.iidc.indiana.edu/?pageId=394 (you have to change it according to your daughter's abilities.)

Here's the thing that I have read from multiple sources that I HONESTLY believe more than anything: Kids do well if they can. If they aren't doing well its usually because they do not yet have the skills or the emotional capacity to meet the expectations that are being placed on them. I mean do you think she WANTS to be miserable all day long on Sundays? Trust your gut on that. From what you've said, I think you know that there is something not quite right there. Try to consider that she is probably doing the best she can with what she's got but if she is autistic then she has a developmental delay. Her social and emotional skills are not the same as other 9 yos but the world is expecting that she does have those skills. I think most of us would display some pretty bad behavior if we were in her shoes.

Also keep in mind that in my experience - and I've read this many, many times here - the higher-functioning kids "hold it together" at school because they know that those kids and adults won't tolerate their behavior - and so, when they get home where it is safe, it all comes out.

Bombaloo is right - but I also don't want you to think that the time and place your daughter chooses is an indicator of where the problem is. It might be that she's stressed out at home - but it is much more likely that she is hanging on by her barest fingernails at school and just doesn't have any other way to deal with her fears and frustrations.

Having her assessed will allow you to see if you can get her needs met better both at home and at school. You will know you're on the right track when her behavior gets exponentially worse for a short time, and then starts to steadily improve.

Wow! Just wanted to say thank you for all the kind and encouraging words. This board and it's members are so welcoming and understanding. I will take her to her pediatrician next week to see if I can get a referral. I agree that discussing the issues with her school will not help right now. I just want to be at a place with her where we have more awesome days ((((like today))) and less bad days (((like yesterday))).

Thats great Glad you are having a good day!

Ugh-- Adolescence ought to be considered a disorder. Except that the majority get that way, so it isn't. It's certainly enough to make any parent want to bang their head against a wall-- with DD11 (documented NT, and all the teachers always tell me how wonderful she is), sometimes that's exactly what I end up doing.

She does sound a lot like me-- other than being a card-carrying slob, I was very similar. I'm so perfectly textbook Asperger's it's not even funny.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with getting the kid an assessment. You can read all kinds of stuff here about horror stories and what to watch out for. It is not going to fix behaviors or make things a whole lot easier in anything like a prompt time frame. It's not going to change who and how she is, it's not going to motivate her to change it, it's not going to do a lot of things.

Have realistic expectations. Realistic expectations of what it is and isn't going to change with you and your kid, realistic expectations of how it might affect her, realistic expectations of the support and the backlash getting a diagnosis can bring. Don't for a minute think that having that piece of paper means you are going to get support and understanding and people who know what they're doing-- or for that matter even a modicum of validation.

You may, you may not. It may finally give you some understanding and a safe harbor. It may just open up a whole new can of rabid worms with big mouths and painfully sharp teeth. That's been my experience so far.

Parenting sucks sometimes, doesn't it?? I don't think parents were always under this much pressure. Kids must be this, kids must be that. If they're not, they're ruined, and it's all your fault. Makes you feel like you're living in some screwed-up Puritan colony.

Probably it's not that great an experience for the kid, either. Mine sure don't seem to enjoy it.

Whether it's AS or kid brattiness or both, a lot of it is probably not your fault. PLEASE don't take it personally. You have not failed as a parent because your daughter can really act like a real little terror. Nobody talks about it any more-- seems like in polite company it's all bragging rights-- but all kids (unless they've been very efficiently emotionally abused) act like terrors and home is the safe place where it's all going to come out.

The fact that she can keep it up at school and such says that you've done a great deal "right." You've done a great deal "right" if she's an NT with an attitude problem, and you've done a great deal right if she's a little Aspie.

I don't believe that kids will always be good if they can be. Kids are not little adults, but they are little people. PEOPLE will not always be good if they can be. NOBODY is successfully on their best behavior all the time-- if they tell you they are, they're either lying through their teeth or going to end up spending a long vacation in the psych unit with a devastating nervous breakdown.

Oh, and-- Well, I don't know about welcoming and encouraging. Speaking for myself, I'm cynical, bitter, pessimistic, and meaner than a snake.

But I care.

Maybe your cynicism is wearing off on me, but this is so true! I remember when I was in the 1st or 2nd grade, I went into a store and tried to steal some cookies. I am NT. I knew better, I wasn't starving, I wasn't having a bad day, etc, but I did it because something in me said, TAKE IT. I tried to, got caught and got a thorough tongue lashing. I was immediately cured of my desire to steal. Sometimes we just do bad things (minor stuff) to see what will happen and see what we can get away with it.

I paid for the good day like I had borrowed it from a loan shark! Today had to be the worst! Asked DD to help put away the clothes, she didn't want to so I told her she had to. It went downhill from there! So over it. Wish there was a redo button! Wish I could just get over it! I think i need to take a vacation to a looney bin!

So happy I found you all and this forum!! ! We are on break next week and my mom is visiting so hopefully we can take a break from all the drama! Dear husband is back at work next week and says he'll be taking all the OT he can get! Lol