Codependency or Helping and Upset at Therapist

Post Reply New Topic

As for psych meds, I think the SSRIs like Prozac, Zoloft and Celexa are aspie-friendly. They have pulled me from the brink of obsessive self-destruction on numerous occasions. My thinking would become very emotional and distorted and it was such a relief to get control of my thoughts back from the "special interest."

I am an intelligent woman, and very successful by any objective measure, and I do not endorse drugging people and I can only relate my experiences. It doesn't feel like being drugged, but feels like being freed. Other meds, like amphetamines (I have ADD) just make me more obsessive. Not a good thing for me. We are all a unique mix of chemicals, so what works for me may not work for others. Many of us do benefit from anti-depressants.

I have had OCD since childhood - and it is a myth that SSRI's automatically help with OCD. When they originally came out they were touted as having something like an 85% improvement rate. What is now realized is that the effect is far less then 85% and some of those had only very mild improvement - nothing compared to the side effects. Some people get manic on these drugs - and it is NOT because of bi-polar either. The same with CBT being hailed as another treatment that results in major improvements - it doesn't work for everyone. The problem though when these treatments are oversold as being majorly helpful is the depression that follows when people are still handwashing or checking - or find that the OCD just focuses on something else. It also causes many to believe that OCD is only mildly annoying and easily treatable.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/507104

Also - there are issue with these drugs - not only in regards to side effects but also in trying to stop them. That is often not taken into consideration especially since it may take a long time on the SSRI's before it is considered not working.

I also agree with some of the other comments about this therapist being kind of condescending. Codependent is a somewhat demeaning term really - there would be much more diplomatic ways to approach this even if she thought you were doing too much for your son. By saying right away you are "codependent" it seems like the therapist is trying to put you in a submissive state also. Now both you and your son need her instruction - not exactly considering you independent and equal to the therapist.

No one drug fits all. That should be obvious to anyone who thinks. SSRIs work only on seratonin and if a low state of seratonin is not your problem, then of course, you'll derive no or little benefit. High levels of stress over long periods of time deplete seratonin, which causes my ordinarily benign and often beneficial hyperfocus to ratchet into obessive behavior. SSRIs can correct that imbalance fairly quickly for me.

I have adverse reactions to tricylic antidepressants which work on several neurotransmitters. I feel shaky, spaced out, and unable to think at all. Obviously, these are not a solution for me.

The problem with children taking these types of drugs are twofold: the child may not be able to report adverse effects, and/or the parent will ignore the child's complaints.

If you are an adult who can regulate your own behavior, this shouldn't be a problem. I also don't see it as a problem with someone in their late teens who can refuse medication.

A sensible discussion of the benefits and risks of SSRIs may be found in a book titled "Listening to Prozac." To blindly follow an anti-anti-depressant philosphy without knowing the facts about them makes no sense to me. Thinking that any media will accurately report the truth about anything is partciularly naive as they pick up only the sensational to report. Very little thought goes into what the media reports and they generally report their biases. There is nothing objective about media reported information and one must make a dilligent effort to do your own research.

Codependancy is part of the addiction jargon. I don't understand why anyone wants to have psychotherapy, why anyone believes therapists have any insight into your mind or your behavior. Most of the current therapists use some form of Jungian therapy, which is a departure, but not a true discounting of, Freudian theory. While I find the application of his temperaments useful, some of his writing seems quite irrational.

Carl Jung was one of the creators of modern depth psychology, which seeks to facilitate a conversation with the unconscious energies which move through each of us. He contributed many ideas which continue to inform contemporary life: complex, archetype, persona, shadow, anima and animus, personality typology, dream interpretation, individuation, and many other ideas. He had a deep appreciation of our creative life and considered spirituality a central part of the human journey. His method of interpretation of symbolic expression not only deepens our understanding of personal material, opening the psychodynamics of our personal biographies and dreams, but the deeper, collective patterns which develop within culture as well.

That is just a biographical synopsis - written in a positive light. His writings are quite bizarre in many respects. Cognitive and evoluntionary psychology are the only two branches based on any type of real science.

Therapy is a broad term and there are many types of approaches. I had a really crappy family counselor when I was 12 and it ruined my opinion of the profession. Years of suffering depression, I finally started therapy a couple of months ago. It's helped me separate my bad habits from the things that are really happening. In the depths of depression, you get to a point where you can't tell reality from your own perceptions. I was feeling gaslighted by my husband-a terrifying feeling. Turns out I have some serious cyclical mood problems that turn my perceptions all around. Couple that with the "rational" style I normally have, I was getting paranoid.
Therapy has gotten me to talk to a third, unrelated party that can separate events from how I dealt with them. I have also stopped following through with my mood swings. (contemplating self harm, divorce, abandonment, drug use)

Sounds off topic, but I think it's important to separate bad therapy from potentially helpful therapy. Not all of them are stereotypical, "now tell me about your mother".

KimJ, your therapy sounds like cognitive behavioral therapy, a sensible type of therapy. Many psychologists want to explore the relationship you had with your mother. The still believe the Freudian psychobabble. They want you to find and love your abandoned/abused/battered inner child. I just read "The Highly Sensitive Person." What tripe! The author recommends years of psychotherapy. Instead I would recommend "The Nurture Assumption." It opens your eyes to the erroneous assumptions of many branches of psychology.

Since I am 49 years old, I know the "blame the parents" thing is not the way to go. I have heard all through the years how we are not supposed to blame stuff on our parents. I mean they did the best they could with what they had. (I am not talking about real abusive parents here, but even at that, abused people need to forgive their parents in order to not live in so much pain in their current life.)

What I am trying to say is that I am not a bad parent at all. I have done so much for my kids. I am not perfect of course, no one is, but I truly have been a loving mom. And to be told that I could be hindering my childs growth is such a bunch of doo doo. Ever since my kids were born I have allowed them to grow and explore. Both of my kids and are kind and loving and the type who would surely help anyone who was having trouble and really needed their help. I feel good about raising kids like that.

I know my son has Aspergers, but I am not willing to say there are things that I did or didn't do that "caused" his Aspergers. I have read too much to take on the blame. So I think I will just realize that my sons therapist works well for him, (well, he says it works) but she does not work well in talking to me. Maybe she can just send me a letter about things she thinks I need to know because I refuse to get hurt by her and her telling me what she thinks "I" am doing wrong to cause my son not to grow. I went to the appointment to get some good suggestions that could help, not just a thing where she said "Stop doing everything!" I mean how can you stop doing everything for someone who won't even brush his teeth daily or shower regularly. And I think they are going to be any better at feeding themselves? Anyway, I am taking small steps and helping my son to learn these things. Yesterday he made his own sandwich and he even put a microwave dinner in for him and for me. I think him and I can work this out more than anyone else, so I am going to just go more by my loving mothers intuition. You know I never even knew he had Aspergers till he was almost 17 and he is only 18 now, so I obviously must have done some things right because he graduated early from High School and never got into drugs or alcohol and just cuz he has a tough time with living and social skills does not discount what a great son I am happy to have raised. As a matter a fact I think I am lucky to have such an intelligent and kind member in my family and will keep counting my blessings. Thanks for listening.

Screw the therapist, thisisme. You sound like a fine mother! The reality is that 50% of behavior is directly or indirectly inherited and that a child's peer group will influence their personality formation much more so than their mothers. The current parenting paradigm is still based on Sigmund Freud's mommy lust. You can't imagine how brutally children in other cultures are treated by their mothers and they turn into functional adults in those societies.

Asperger's Syndrome is a neurological difference. People are born that way. Your son probably needs to see a neurologist for his dysphraxia and probably could benefit from occupational therapy. It is a lot cheaper to send a child to a "counselor" than to a neurologist. You have to look at the cost of the therapy recommended and you'll see that you get the lowest cost first. Be a squeaky wheel and demand some grease!

I actually have found help from another therapist who is working on getting the right kind of help for my son. She is really good at checking out resources in our town. I am low-income, but we still can find help available. But I totally agree with your previous post. It does help to hear some common sense stuff here and I think this whole experience is really helping me to understand Aspergers more lately, so that is the good out of the bad experience with that therapist.

I had a mother, that because of her Asperger's, and need for perfection, coupled with the fact I think she is a borderline personality, she did and did for me, never letting me do for myself. We entered a real power struggle when I was in my late teens / and 20's. She felt that if she ever backed off, I would not do for myself, or my son, (which was not true, just I was incapable of doing to HER expectations. Because of the black and white nature of her thinking, there is a right way, or wrong way, and no inbetween).

I think what I needed, was patience and understanding while I learned these basic skills. I needed a firm supportive parent who would have me "do" but pick up the pieces for what I was not ready for.

You can't let him neglect himself, but long term you can't keep doing for him either! It is a catch 22. I agree with the theripist in some ways, but I don't think you are being co dependent.

It is hard for Aspies to learn new routines and behaviors. Your son is used to you doing everything for him, it is going to take time to assume those responsibilities himself. He may never do things to your expectation, but you have to let him try.

I think I suggested before, trying to apprentice him into self management. But, you are going to have to get really organized along with it. Get a container for his meds that is dated, and teach him how to use it. Have him take them at the same time every day. Make sure there are easy things to get in the kitchen for snacks and cooking. Firmly, but positively try and get him to a point where he can just start to do little things, like get up and get the sandwich out of the fridge, or help with making dinner.

You definately did not make him this way, and you definately have done a great job with parenting him, it is amazing considering you did not understand why he was the way he was all these years, you just accepted it with open arms and delt with it!

But, you need to start the ground work to teach him independance. Baby steps. YOu are absolutely right that he is not just going to wake up tommorow, and make a sandwich because you are not there!

That's one thing I notice here. So many kids that are accepted by their parents regardless of dx status. We get stressed and all, but so many parents are willing to question themselves. I see that as a strength in this context and evidence that you really love your kids.

BPD and AS cannot exist simultaneously and you are falling into the psychobabble trap of ascribing motives to behavior that may not be true. The fact that the OP's son is responding to learning self-help skills when broken down into small steps speaks volumes about his problem with dysphraxia.

Codependency means:

Symptoms of codependence are controlling behavior, distrust, perfectionism, avoidance of feelings, problems with intimacy, excessive caretaking, hypervigilance or physical illness related to stress. Codependence is often accompanied by depression, as the codependent person succumbs to feelings of frustration or sadness over his or her inability to improve the situation.

Codependence can also be a set of maladaptive, compulsive behaviors learned by family members in order to survive in a family which is experiencing great emotional pain and stress caused, for example, by a family member's alcoholism or other addiction, sexual or other abuse within the family, a family members' chronic illness, or forces external to the family, such as poverty.

The child, just like my son, didn't learn normal self-help skills because of dysphraxia. The big difference is that my son was identified early and helped early by occupational therapy. Still, there is also a component of normal teen behavior. Do "normal" teens do the right things and eat properly at the right times? Absolutely not! Just look at college dorm life.

We don't have to make everything into a disorder and make it abnormal and ascribe motives.

Who is crazy? Society is crazy, IMO.

As someone who is 25 and still codependant on my parents, I think the therapist is wrong. I think the whole idea, as do many people with AS, that at some magic age you should magically "Be an adult" is a problem. Most people who are NT aren't adults when they turn 18. They get kicked out of the house, sent to college, then it's all "Why did my son/daughter get messed up with sex/drugs?!" Gee I don't know, maybe to cope with just being thrown out into the world and having to claw their way around to fend themselves?

I don't know if this would cause more strife with your therapist, I would ask them if your child presented physical representations of Autism, would they be so quick to call on you for being codependant. Explain to them that just because your child doesn't have a disability they can see, it does not mean they are disabled. I'd also tell the therapist that they should go back to college, because any mental health person worth beans, knows that the first thing about those on the spectrum is to estabilish structure and predictability for that person.

Deciding that your child is 18, and therfore should just be like an adult with a snap of your fingers, is unqualified to be telling you how to treat your son. I would ignore what the therapist said, and return to taking care of your son as normal. The therapist clearly doesn't know the first thing about Asperger's Syndrome.

Thank you all for your feedback and welcome anymore pointers or resources in teaching an Asperger teen living skills. But for one thing, I have started out slowly here after a long talk with my son and things are going slowly but surely. I will keep with my intuition of right and wrong, keep my compassion and remember that if someone just can't do something, there is nothing wrong with giving them a helping hand if they currently are just not ready to learn a certain task as yet. Take care all.