Melt down

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Hi,

I have come in to my work to escape my home for an hour and to make contact with people who will understand.

My 12 year old son has had what I think is described as a melt down but this is by far the worst. At one stage he had a twelve foot metal bar he was trying to hit his dad with. It doesn't help that my husband isn't the most understanding of men and he was calling my son a 'nothing', a little s**t, but this came in retaliation from a load of abuse from my son, it all started with my son trying to upset me, he was saying (but using comic body language) nobody likes you why don't you just kill yourself, nobody loves you, it was just going on like that, (I was doing his hair for him at the time)!

I wasn't biting I was just saying, never mind and that I was sure his brother and sister loved me, and I didn't want to kill myself because I wanted to go to his sisters Wedding. I didn't know my husband was at the bottom of the stairs listening, and he shouted up for my son (Liam) to behave himself and cut it out. Liam came out with a torrent of abuse swearing profusely at my husband and goading him to come and hit him, my husband snapped and ran up the stairs, I believe that he grabbed my son by the throat and was spitting then my son grabbed a decorative pole off the end of the bed and was trying to hit my husband with it but he grabbed it from him. Liam was incensed and trying to calm him down was impossible, he was saying how he wanted to stab his dad how he would love to see the blood pour from his throat, eventually I calmed him enough to take him in the car for a drive, but even after that he seems in a strange mood, when he's had episodes like this before he seems calm, but not today, its like he is still angry.

Liam has a zany sense of humour, every thing has got to be funny and to be honest its wearing me out, he says a lot of sentences that are just random as if he is trying to annoy you but backs it up that he is only messing.

He has friends but they have to contact him, he never rings anyone or makes arrangements to go out with them. He will go out with them quite happily but never appears comfortable.

Why I am telling you all this is I would like to ask is this typical of someone with Asperger's, you see he only had the diagnosis a couple of months ago by a paediatrician who saw him for an hour. Then a psychotherapist saw him and observed him for one hour in school and didn't appear to agree with the doctor’s diagnosis. I love my son just like any mum should and I just want to make sure that I am going down the right road for him.

Attack is not typical. Especially with a twelve foot metal bar. That much I'm sure of.

I don't know if aggression is part of the mix. Your son seems to have control over the family even when calm.

This is a book that I think might really help you - it's a novel that I'm reading now, about a woman whose teenager becomes violent. The teen's Dx is bipolar but the story is about the mom, how she feels, how she copes.

72 Hour Hold
by Bebe Moore Campbell

I got mine from the library.

I think you need help.

If you don't get this under control, I fear it is only going to get worse. Is there an organization you can connect with that could refer you to services in your area along the lines of mental health?

It sounds like he started "baiting" you and your husband, and then the whole thing just excalated from there?

I had a scary experiance with my 12 year old last December. I had for weeks, been wanting to take him to a roman catholic church. We are not a very religious family, (although I technically am Roman Catholic) and he was doing a project on local native peoples cultures thousands of years ago. He learned to identify spritual elements of their cultrue, but could not identify any in ours. So, I thought where better to learn, then at a R. Catholic mass with all its holy water, and standing and sitting and praying and communion and such...

So, I tell him we are going to do this, and he refuses. We talk about it for a few weeks, (I did not just spring it on him) and reluctantly he agrees to go.

Then, the night before, he starts acting up. The morning of, he fakes a stomach ache. Eventually we get to the bottom of it, he just will not go and we can't make him! I tell him, if he is not willing to do this small thing for me, then I am going to start to take away his privilages and stuff because I am tired of everything being onesided, he has to give something too. (Kinda strange, because I wanted to take him so that he could experiance it, I thought it would be interesting to him). Anyway, he escalates the whole thing, and it turns into a screaming match!

So, I give him some time to calm down, and like I said I would, I go into his room, calm and collected, and gather up a few things belonging to him. He pulls a knife on me and tells me to "put it back" "this hurts me more then it hurts you".

I call my husband when I realize he is not kidding around and he is disarmed, but the whole thing, I still don't know if he "gets" it.

All he could say, over and over again, was "I did not want to be bored". That was justification enough to kill me. All these months later, I still don't think he really understands what he did.

The thing is, he is not a violent kid typically, he has responsibly used a pocket knife for 2 years (he no longer has one and never will under my roof) most of the time, he is sweet and caring and we have a good relationship.

It just seemed to be some huge disconnect. I actually considered sending him away. In the end, if he EVER does something like that again, I am going to have to, because I can't risk harm to his siblings.

What I learned from it though, is to not allow things to escalate like that. You can't buy into the pattern or progression of the fight.

I don't know if this helps, but I just want you to know you are not alone.

I think that if I where in your shoes, I would have just excused myself from him, saying "I am not going to put up with that sort of abuse" and walked away. He needs to know it is not an acceptable way to behave, of course, things getting to the point where people are being attacked with metal bars, is definately out of control.

I agree that you need help. You need someone detached and logical to look at the situation. Your aspie son probably has no motives for his behavior, just triggers, and you may not know what they are.

I don't think mothers should ask their autistic children to do things for them until they are sure their child is capable of perspective taking and flexible thinking. If he cannot assume your POV, then how can he do something for you that makes no sense to him?

It is better to say that you have to do X because we all have to some thngs we don't like to do to get along in the world. And we do live in a world with other people. The aspie brain is very logical. Use it and keep the emotions out of daily living.

I agree help is needed and more than a psychologistobserving the child for an hour. You did say the psychologist disagree with the dx of AS. Did he suggest any alternatives?

Z has had meltdowns where we have had to physically restrain him, more to keep him from hurting himself than others. He has had episodes when he has struck at someone but these are usually the result of being pushed, teased or bullied. The level of rage your 12 tear exhibited sounds far beyond what I understand as typical AS behavior. My personal thought is that this needs to be looked at in depth to prevent both harm to others and himself.

Z's outbursts are usually short lived and not a result of planning, they often surprise and confuse him as much as they do us. To me it sounds as if your son deliberately instigates and compounds these episodes. Z has Aspergers and ADHD but several other dxs are still pending. We have been told he is a very complex child and it sounds as if this could apply to your son as well. He needs to learn how to control himself, if not there may be severe legal consequences. I have seen it happen. I don't say this to frighten you but to alert you.

I'm not usually this nagative but I"m all to familiar with a similar case. It did not have a good outcome. Please get help for your family.

I agree to keep the emotions out of it as much as possible. Also - when you say you weren't playing into what he was doing it sounds like you actually were by saying that everyone else loves you ect. Not saying you have to ignore, but challenging what he is saying is getting mired in the "game" for him. What he was saying almost sounds like he is replaying out a scene from TV or the movies perhaps?- which could also account for the laughter. And perhaps he could find it funny to be able to trigger your responses if he knows that someone is going to go off. That gives him control because he is manipulating the behavior of the adults.

I agree. I would have walked away from him, hair half done whatever, and told him simply that his behavior is not appropreate, and you will not finish his hair at this time.

Hi,

I am learning from all of you on this web site all the time, I realise now that I should have just walked away. He told me afterwards when he was saying all these things to me that he wanted my attention, which I find odd because he had my complete attention.

There are issues with his Dad, he isn't a hands on type of dad at all, and any of my kids never feel comfortable in his company, he doesn't like them walking in and out of the living room to talk to me as the TV has to have his full attention and everyone has to be quiet around him. I often sit in a different room so that they can come in and talk when they need to.

I think he is finding the having friends thing really difficult too, while they have been off school different people have contacted him and he does go out with them once but that is the end of it he never makes any arrangements to go out, thank god for MSN which is his point of contact with them.

we had similiar problems with our son. there were several changes that were made within our household~i can't honestly say which change made the most difference, but here they are: 1. remain detached, but aware when he tries to bait you.....2. therapy, therapy, therapy...and oh, yes...more therapy...3. change of friends......4. his dad becoming more involved in doing fun activities with him ( activities that they both enjoy)....5. change of schools.....6. change of meds

back to #2....therapy for the whole family helped~everyone squawked about going at first, but when we realized that the therapy was having a positive impact on our son...how could we not go ?

Many young aspie interactions are scripts, I agree. Parents are going to have to abandon many ideas of parenting to deal with an aspie adolescent. It is unfortunate that these diagnoses are made at a late age.

In my house, we have rules for parents too:

No yelling or hitting - EVER.
Transitions are planned for and announced.
We are always polite with one another.
We are senstive to our children's sensory issues and don't push beyond their comfort level.
I have my meltdowns behind closed doors.
Private adult issues are kept private.
We maintain a united POV with our children.
We take pains to look beyond the behavior for the core issue.
We talk to them constantly so they can understand cognitively their behavior.
And we explain how other people think and feel so they can learn to take another's perspective. (VERY IMPORTANT!)

Living with AS children requires a family adaptation as well as school services. Parents must learn all that you can about AS, including Theory of Mind, and try to think about things from your child's perspective. Parents must provide a consistent and stable home environment to prevent violent meltdowns.

My son was so violent as a toddler, I would have to lock myself in the bedroom with my infant daughter and call my husband to come home from work to subdue him. He would bite me and leave big bruises. That all went away as he matured and his sensory issues got more under control. He hasn't had a violent episode in 10 years and everyone who meets him thinks him well mannered and considerate.

Our minds are wired very differently. Until parents understand the differences, nothing will make sense and few treatments will work.

AS is genetic and that type of rigid behavior is very AS.

I really don't understand why everyone is phrasing this as an attack brought on by the 12 year old. According to the story, the father grabbed him by the throat. That is an assault. He can go to jail for that. How can you portray him as a violent 12 year old when he was assaulted first?


edited to rephrase sentence

Hi KimJ

I agree with you that my husband shouldn't have been goaded into having his melt down which is what I see it as because I am sure he is AS too. My son was swearing at him and saying come on and hit me then, nah you won't will you. My husband shouldn't have taken the bait but unfortunately thats where all my problems started, I have left my husband three times for what I thought was his uncaring ways, his lack of affection towards me and my kids and me having to do everything on my own.

I always came back because I felt sorry for him as he has no one else (he had fallen out with all his family and doesn't contact any of his friends) and I do care for him and now that I realise that he is Aspie too I understand him more.

I was wondering the same thing. Perhaps you should make a list of As characteristics your husband shows. I've had times when I've lost my temper with Z, at the least your husband might bebefit from some anger management training. If he isn't ammenable enter through the back door and keep Family Counselling in mind. Working for the benefit of your son together will give insight into his father's behavior.

After thinking about this, I have to wonder what the meltdown was about? Were you going to a wedding? Perhaps he had problems with doing that (or whatever he was ) and had no way to express it and instead chose a dramatic event to try and get out of whatever it was that made him uncomfortable.

Reading "There's a Boy in Here," would probably give you some insight and hope.

http://www.amazon.com/Theres-Boy-Here-J ... 1885477864