Raised by Aspergers parent

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Nah, you're not too bad to use it as a whipping boy. Just run across it often-- "good Aspie" traits are AS, "bad Aspie" traits are NPD.

I've gotten a bit into reading up on NPD because it fits my stepmom's witch of a sister to a T (and I'm probably going to go over to The Haven and bawl about that-- it's Mom's birthday next week). I see the resemblances and the confusions...

...and also how, no, ASD doesn't explain or excuse outright sh***y behavior. Does it explain and excuse MAKING mistakes?? Yes. Does it explain and excuse REFUSAL TO MAKE UP FOR THEM?? No. A responsible Aspie has to be willing to explain what s/he meant, apologize for misunderstandings, and remediate hurt feelings. An adult that is functional enough to marry and bear children is functional enough to assume that responsibility.

Holy social skills-- that might be my solution to the "I must approach life from the view that I am broken and bad and always to blame" dilemma. MY responsibility is to try to avoid those mistakes, to follow the above-listed protocol when I inevitably make mistakes...

...and then what?? Is that maybe the end of it??

More importantly for the purposes of this thread, how does this apply for Jenufa or LMT?? How do we work AS/NT issues backward for the NT/AS situation?? Is that even pracitcable??

Is "practicable" even a word??

My husband would practically kiss you for the statement about not everything an Aspie does being related to ASD. Me-- well, I might argue. I see my whole life through that lens, have for 15 years now. I think I'm being honest; he thinks I'm looking at the world through poison-tinted goggles.

For Mister Edison's sake I guess I had better figure out which one of us is right, or who's right to what degree...

...but that is outside the scope of this thread.

Heh---yeah. I read about NPD occasionally b/c I think my M-I-L may have it. Reading over it, again, I realize I forgot how well it seems to fit her. So, if there is an anti-NPD bias from my end that would be where it comes from, as she drives me completely batty. (We need a bat emoticon )

Getting back to what is and isn't AS, I don't know how to work it backward, either. Maybe the reason I view this thread in a different light than the main part of the parent board is I am not sure it matters. I thought about it, and I view the necessity of knowing your kids is AS (or AU) as fundamentally different from knowing a parent is. I tried to think about why I think that, and I think I figured out how it works in my own head.

To parent an AS/AU kid it really helps to know the kind of kid you have. You need to know these things in order to raise your child, how to discipline, what to challenge your kid with, what it is OK to let them avoid, all that kind of stuff. Sure ASD is a spectrum, so it still only gets you part of the way there, but uou need an official (TM) term in order to talk about your child to teachers, school districts and when needed, professionals. Like it or not (usually I don't) you need the label to get your kid help.

With a parent, for good or ill, your parent is who he/she is. That person is not going to change, barring some statistically unlikely happenstance. You are stuck with that person. Knowing how she works might help you navigate landmines--knowing what subjects should be off limits (for your own sanity if nothing else), having realistic expectations for how they will respond to things etc. The label doesn't help b/c the short cuts are insufficient anyway. AS is a spectrum, and your results will vary, regardless. I also think it is statistically unusual for an adult to go seek help based on these kinds of observations from their grown children. At least with a kid, if you think he needs help, you can bring him to the proverbial water even if he won't necessarily drink from it. A child (below a certain age, anyway) will also generally listen to you, and try to do what you say when you ask.

A parent of an adult child? Generally parents have what my husband would call "powdered butt syndrome." They changed your diaper and think they know better then you, forever. Are all parents like that? No, but I think the ones that need an intervention are -- almost to a person. Even if they did agree to get help, what help is available for adults?

Based on what I have read here, not much. It is hard enough getting someone competent to deal with a kid, much less an adult. So pragmatically, where does that leave you? No where. You still have to operate based on the specifics of your parent. What does the label get you?

So maybe my AS brain is having trouble wrapping itself around the point. Blaming this and blaming that vs. just saying this person is who she is. I don't see what peace of mind that brings, unless it is the child's way of proving to herself it is not the child's fault. It is the parent's fault either way, disorder driven or not.

HI all, I haven't disappeared, just busy...working and thinking. Thanks for the tips and feedback.

There are a few things that bother me about the forums and posts I've seen in which NT's and ASD's don't seem to be able to get past. Basically the details get focused on as a specific issue of right or wrong (is it an AS trait or not? could it be some other diagnosis?? or just poor character??), rather than validating two things - one: what did the person mean by what they said, and two: how was is understood. And that goes both ways.

My main issue I have (and I'll just speak about my parents, not generally) is the lack of recognition of my perspective. Misunderstandings are to be expected in any relationship, but when I specifically says "this is how I see this" and without a second thought am told "you're wrong" it is hard not to feel that the conversation is a right/wrong argument in which only one perspective is correct. That is a situation that is always going to leave at least one person feeling bad, hurt or like a failure.

I can't remember where I saw it but someone with AS did a brilliant job of explaining how the world looked to him - he explained it as being a driver doing the speed limit on the freeway, and other drivers being annoyed because he wouldn't go faster, but he wasn't breaking the law, so the problem was really theirs. (I hope if anyone's seen it I've interpreted that accurately) . I guess from an NT perspective the issue isn't the speed, but the lane - move over and let those who want to pass, pass! It's not your job to control/restrict another's actions. That and there is the assumption that the "driver" can change speed - which to me didn't really fit with a full understanding of how AS impacts him.

It made me think how I could explain how this looks from an NT perspective without it turning into a good/bad issue. The best thing I could think of is height. I'm short 5'2". That means some things are difficult (that's the "negative") for me to reach, and I have to find ways to adapt to access them (ladder, steps, etc), other things I need to bend down to get (that's a "negative"), if something is at my height it takes no effort (a "positive").
When dealing with someone who has AS it is like they are in a full body cast and find it difficult to bend or stretch, so instead insist on what they interact with being made to fit their height. So a AS who is 5 foot, is going to want things adjusted to be convenient to 5 feet, and someone who is 6 foot, is going to want things to be adjusted to 6 feet. But put the two together and then there are really big issues of inflexibility (especially if neither are diagnosed or have poor self-awareness!!).
This is where I see NT's feeling stressed, frustrated, used and even abused by those with AS. As it seems that NT's in relationships with AS end up constantly trying to find ways for the AS person to access those things that are too high/low, and therefore difficult to reach, but it never seems to be enough, or recognized.

I read what's been said about NPD, I don't think it really fits with ASD, but I've understood ASD to be in part an emotional developmental deficit - so the emotional response is often childlike, and that comes across self-centered. That might be seen as accepted behaviour in a child, and part of their development, but in adults would be interpreted as narcissistic, even if it is not. Particularly if followed by a dismissal of validating the impact on another person.

The other thing that crossed my mind since joining this forum is about self-worth in relation to self-awareness. I keep thinking about the "Serenity Prayer" God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Knowing who we are, and then finding a way to live in peace with it is hard. But it's important, trying to change things we can't is disheartening, but failing to change things because we didn't try means we potentially miss an opportunity to grow and succeed at something new. There are a lot of limits put on me by my parents that I have had to question, and then risk defying. Some were legitimate, others were not.

I think one of the things that NT's have that AS's don't (or struggle with), is that NT's are capable of hiding aspects of themselves better than those with AS. We aren't better or worse, in the sense of when you add up all the attributes a person has, but we are able to manage the self-disclosure in away that protects our vulnerabilities and weaknesses better, and are usually more effective in doing that for others - ie. I didn't mention to a friend of mine, who says she wants to lose weight, but is now having her third slice of cake, that she shouldn't have had any! (this happened recently).

BuyerBeware wrote:

I also wanted to say to BuyerBeware - have you thought about how important a name is? I'm curious as to why on a forum where I would expect you to feel safe you use a name like BuyerBeware? I had depression a few years ago and one thing I realised was how many negative things (and names ) I used to tell myself. One of the nicest things my friends did was make a bookmark for me where they all said something about me, I ended up with this - ...is a joyful, fun lady to be around who has the ability to light up the room with contagious laughter. She is a courageous and determined go getter and inspires others... I certainly didn't see myself that way, but on bad days I read it to remind myself of the good things others saw in me.

I really hope your MIL didn't call you ret*d?! That's uncalled for, and shows a lack of understanding for both your intelligence and feelings. Can I suggest that you ask your family and friends what they like about you so you can remind yourself on bad days? No-one is all bad, or a total failure, having strategies to build your own resilience that incorporates truthful things about yourself can be very empowering. I bet your kids can give you a long list if you ask
Maybe a real challenge would be for you to make lists of positive attributes you value in them, for them?

ADSMommyADSKid wrote:


I think it is pretty obvious that Jenufa's mother's behaviour is inappropriate, and maybe she would be like that if an NT. But there seems to be enough evidence to point to her being AS - and part of AS is the EXTREMES of behaviour - I don't think there is much room to question that her behaviour is extreme, and that is an AS connection.

ASDMommyASDKid wrote:


Most people don't want to live near landmines. Isn't that part of the issue some AS's have with relationships? We can't confine then to their room, or withdraw privileges! Unfortunately the only way to deal with someone who behaves in this way is to interact with them like I'm wearing full body armor!

I completely disagree that AS is defined as behavior to extremes. I am not going to tell you what your personal experiences have or have not been, but AS does not equate to this. There may be stronger feelings about things but it does not automatically lead to extremes in behavior. Sometimes we are the opposite and do nothing when we are not sure what the correct thing is to do.

Do AS people often feel unsafe around situations they cannot control? Yes. I don't know that this means that AS people as a rule want the power to ground their kids even when they are adults. In my case, if my son is ever able to live on his own and make his own decisions I will be ecstatic and proud. Yes, I know you were careful to qualify your statement with "some" and the courtesy is appreciated. It may very well be that AS parents may have a harder time letting go. I would not dismiss it out of hand.

As far as needing to interact with your parents as though you have full body armor on, that is how I feel a lot of time about the NT world, as a whole. That is what happens whenever anyone does not understand the rules of the game. It requires caution.

I am not discounting anyone's horrible experiences with parental units. Toxic is toxic. I personally, have little tolerance for toxicity of any neurological stripe, and live my life accordingly, when I can. I do think that some people are too quick to label everything that is toxic as AS.

Maybe that is a quibble to you, but as someone with AS it is not.

If someone is going slow in front of you even if they are going the speed limit, why not go in the next lane yourself and tailgating them isn't going to make them go any faster, in fact they may just drive slower just to piss you off because you are being so rude and lazy to go in the next lane. If people want to go fast because they don't want to go the speed limit, be my guest but I am not going to break the law for you. I will either keep going the speed or go in the next lane just so you can pass because you refused to do it yourself.

I think it is a matter of considering how the term "extremes" can be applied. I've noticed that people with ASD aren't "average" at very many things, unlike the "average" NT. They tend to either be particularly good at something, or particularly weak at it. NTs are more likely to carry an even skill set, and that is one of the reasons ASD individuals can be so confusing to them; they want to assume that if you are good at X, then you must be good at Y, which is an assumption that really can't be made with someone who has ASD. And the IQ tests - why do they do them on ASD children as part of the diagnosis process? Because the scores tend to scatter, unlike the pattern with NTs. So if I were to say ASD tends to be a condition of apparent extremes, that would be why.

DW_a_Mom,

I do not disagree that there are often extremes in strengths and weaknesses. The poster was talking about extremes in behavior, and I don't think that is necessarily so, specifically with the AS portion of the spectrum. People with AS may have extremely strong emotions but usually people on the AS part of the spectrum have figured out coping skills. Even if they vent in unusually strong ways, they don't necessarily act in extreme ways. AS people tend to think things through, value logic over emotion, and often are subject to "paralysis by analysis" and fail to act as a result of spending so much time trying to get the proverbial lay of the land, not to mention trying to figure out how NT people will respond to various actions.

I will concede that AS parents probably feel safer letting their guard down around their kids, but I don't think that as a general rule it is fair to say that AS behavior is characterized by extremes. (I am pretty sure there is another disorder for that one) Even my son, who is HFA but very impaired socially and emotionally doesn't get too "extreme" unless something (usually predictable) triggers it. AS adults are going to be significantly less impaired than that.

LMP, those are excellent and interesting questions. Unfortunately I am going to have to get back to the really good ones some night when I manage to outlast my kids in a reasonably good frame of mind (sort of hard to come by just lately-- we're Having Issues with DS6 and at odds over how to deal with it).

I can answer the personal ones. The screen name has a dual meaning: 1) "caveat emptor" seems to be a pretty applicable motto for how to deal with life, and 2) at the time, it was taken from a Blues Traveller song ("I don't care/Buyer beware of me/cause it might get rough") that signified a decision to stop approaching life from the perspective that my condition automatically means I'm always wrong and always at fault. I'd lived that way for about seven years because it kept the peace, and I was scared witless of the level of conflict that treating my own point of view as valid was going to cause.

Self-deprecation is, basically, my favorite defense mechanism. I don't know if it's a good one or a bad one, but I figure that anything I can laugh at isn't likely to land me back in the hospital.

I know. It is pretty stupid that you are supposed to go with the "flow of traffic" even if the flow of traffic is breaking the speed limit. If does not make sense that the speed limit is sometimes a guideline and sometimes an enforced law.

This may not be interesting to you, but here is a link that compares traffic to fluid dynamics:
http://www.smartmotorist.com/traffic-an ... -jams.html

One of the interesting points in there, is that when a motorist is acting unexpectedly, and is moving slower than the traffic as a whole with a good amount of space between his/her car and the one in front, it helps prevent traffic jams b/c there is room for cars to go through, change lanes and so forth.

I was pretty excited to read that b/c counter-intuitively it means my "odd" driving habits actually aid the flow of traffic!

Actually in a way it does make sense at least to me. It is because it is not totally about justice or keeping the streets safe. It is about meeting quotas and bringing revenue in. In essence you weren't just pulled over because you broke the law or violated some ordinance it is because the police have to meet quotas.

In cobb county, my wife told me them putting up the traffic cams and they worked very well. The cams served their purpose but guess what? They were taken down because they worked to well. Revenues dropped because the cameras worked to well. It isn't just about justice or safety. It is about revenue as well.



League_Girl, my wife did the speed limit one time on the express way and guess what she was pulled over for impeding traffic. Yes, there is a law against impeding traffic. The cop pulled her over to warn her. By her following the speed limit she was still breaking the law and it is up to the police officer's discretion. Drive with the flow of traffic first and then the speed limit. Even then a cop may pull you over and issue you a ticket just to meet their quota. Sometimes there is no avoiding the ticket. I can tell you in Atlanta people can't drive worth a crap and there are accidents all of the time especially on the part where I-75 and I-85 meet.

I also read you can get pulled over for going with the flow of traffic, happened to me once, and you can also get pulled over for not gong with the flow of traffic. It's so confusing. I wish they would have signs up saying "Go with the flow of traffic" or "don't go with the flow of traffic" like they do with speed limits. That would make it so much easier. Also they have slow lanes where you can drive slower which are the right lanes and slower traffic is supposed to keep to the right.

I hate staying in the right lane unless I am going to get off the highway soon, because then you have to worry about cars entering and exiting the highway. Although supposedly they are the ones responsible for doing so safely, I have not found that to always be the case. It is very nerve-wracking for me. Also sometimes the right lane turns into an exit only lane and -has- to exit the highway. If you do not know the area (or forget) and have to hurry up and move to the left so you don't have to exit that can be stressful, too, at least for me.

I also hate the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" driving rules that make no sense. They shouldn't be allowed to that just so they can make quota.

I hate highway driving!

I hate it to and it is nerve wracking for me as well. Do you have problems switching lanes. Make sure you can see the vehicle's headlights and bumper that would be behind you if you to that lane. To do this speed up a bit. Do not look behind you. This was what I was taught in my driving course when I had to go to get points deducted from my license. This course helped me a lot.

By the way, if your state has a point system and if you accumulate a certain amount of points with tickets your license is automatically suspended. Guess what, they do not feel obligated to tell you this. I am glad I had an instructor who told us all of this.

You know what, that is an excellent idea. You're brilliant. Write to your congressman and the Transportation Department as well. I seriously mean that. They really should have signs like that in which they can state the status of what to do. It would make it easier and I bet it would decrease traffic fatalities.

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Last edited by turnthetide on 24 Jan 2014, 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.