divorced mom - 12 year hates me and won't come to my house

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bbl215
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06 Oct 2015, 10:41 pm

I have two sons. The older one (my aspie) is 12. His brother is 11. His dad and I have joint custody and live about a half mile apart. The boys switch houses on Mondays and stay with each parent for a full week. We've been divorced for 4.5 years now and my relationship with my older son keeps getting worse and more of an uphill battle.

This is a very long and whiney story but I'll try to keep it as short as possible. :) The short version is, my ex has alienated my son from me and constantly belittles me and minimizes my role as a mother - along with his wife of 2 years. I initiated the divorce basically because the ex was a very negative person who sucked the life out of life. We didn't do much as a family, he was a good dad but not very engaged, never encouraged the boys to do social stuff or sports or anything. My son was diagnosed with aspergers around the same time, and I realize now that both his dad and I are probably on the spectrum. As a child, I was shy to the point of mutism, really awkward, and I wanted my boys to grow up in an environment where they felt confident and happy and never had to feel the way I did. What ended up happening was quite the opposite. My ex vowed to "get revenge by taking my kids away" and I swear that's what still motivates him. He insisted on joint custody and I didn't have the funds to fight it and would lose anyway since he is not an outwardly bad person, just very belligerent,condescending, negative.

My oldest always did gravitate more to his dad, the younger toward me, but we were still very close. He exhibited some ASD, impulse control and mostly oppositional traits from a very young age but it really escalated when he turned 8 which was also when the divorce happened. He was diagnosed then.

He would often complain or be reluctant to come to my house back then but not terribly so. His dad would do the passive aggressive thing of telling him to go while constantly putting me down and saying things like "it won't be so bad"" etc - like making it something he really should be anxious about. I think his father has made him feel responsible for his happiness, discusses too much with him and has outright lied about the divorce, saying I "walked out" and cheated on him - neither of which happened. The day I left and got my own place the boys were with me for a week but my son doesn't seem to remember that.

As he got older it got worse. Although from the start, once he is here for 15 minutes or so he's fine and even affectionate at times. Last year when he was 11 his dad told him he was old enough to choose where he wanted to spend most of his time. I objected because I never agreed to that! but he still told him again that it was fine, insisted he could have more responsibility since he's "almost a teenager" and finally said that **I** was not giving him any freedom and forcing him to follow the custody agreement. The kid would complain about my apartment, it's too small - it wasn't that small, but his dad would just agree with him. SO I bought a house, which is pretty old, on a somewhat busy road (but set back a bit with a decent amount of property) and a decent size. Of course he has a multitude of complaints about the house and his excuse for not coming now is "your house is just horrible." He was here on schedule all summer but hasn't been since school started. I do think the anxiety of starting school has a lot to do with it so I've cut him some slack.

He's a bright boy but very oppositional, defiant and rude. He generally refuses to do work in school if he doesn't feel like it and will just zone out or put his head down. Homework is torture. Last year he had issues with saying rude remarks out loud with no provocation to other kids. He's mainstreamed but spends some time in the autism resource room. Last year he had a one on one who it seemed did most of the work for him. This year for some reason he doesn't have one, and this year's emergency is that he falls asleep in class, almost every day, since the start of the year, out cold can't wake up asleep. He got into a habit of staying up all night at the end of the summer and I think he can't snap out of it. His father has taken away electronics but he has sneaked into hiding places to take back cords, has hacked the parental controls, etc. At this point I think it's just plain insomnia and not electronic abuse but he said he hasn't asked his dad for something to help him sleep.

He's going through puberty already, is 5'6" and 140 pounds. He has no outside interests and spends most of his time playing war strategy games. He's not so good at proper bathing and grooming and won't take advice about it - at least from me. Supposedly this year he is doing better socially, has some friends and eats lunch with them (last year he refused to eat in the lunchroom.) He went to a computer camp over the summer and did well there.

Through the years I've enrolled him in tons of activities - fencing, bowling, scouts, social skills groups...we've been to aspie meetups and I started an aspie meetup. He starts out interested and wants to quit after a month or so and his father won't take him to any of the meetings and kind of puts them down. He's been evaluated many times, we had services when he was younger with an MT and BSE but couldn't find a good fit. We had services again last year after he came to school and told people I was a drunk and bipolar. We had a meeting at school because they wanted to know where he heard those things (which aren't true by the way) and his father admitted that he, his wife and her mother were discussing it in front of him. School recommended counseling, his father refused so I did the 6 weeks of intense therapy with and without the kid and they basically had to stop because they couldn't find any significant problems in our relationship, my parenting, or even my horrible hovel of a house. Dad wouldn't participate and has pretty much refused or sabotaged any attempts at family therapy. He does take him to one "therapist" who isn't very professional and has done more damage than good in the past because she is the only one who hasn't tried to tell him that what he's doing is horrible parenting (others have and he shuts them out immediately.) And now he has a wife who has the same personality as him and hates me even though she never met me. I regularly hear the remarks and subtle put downs about me, my house, my jobs (i work 3 part time jobs to be more flexible for things like 6 hours of counseling a week, I've been at one organization doing tech support for 18 years and work as a bookkeeper at the others, so it's not exactly loser work as they imply.) My son told me last week he doesn't care if he ever sees me again and he hates me. He gives me the finger regularly and curses at me. To be fair, I've had my blowups too, but very very rarely. He has an MT now, the dad allows her to come but won't engage and tells the kid "you have to do therapy because YOUR MOM wants you to". My son tells her he likes it more at his dad's because he doesn't have to do "therapy or family stuff" (they pretty much let him hang out on the computer in the corner 24/7.)

This is long after all. I guess my question is, should I just back off? Besides the constant ache of missing my son, I feel responsible as a parent for a child who seems to not be developing into someone who can function in society, but helpless since I can't do anything about it, probably even if he did come here regularly since he has zero respect for me. I know I could probably get more custody but I'm not sure if that would just make him more rebellious and his father more of a martyr. And I think he should be made to follow a court ordered custody schedule just to know he has to follow SOME rules. To make it worse, his father now WANTS him to come here (I think he's nervous about the sleeping in school thing and starting to see that it's all out of control) and tells him to. The other day I had him for an hour and dropped him off without getting lunch because it was just a constant barrage of insults and telling me how horrible I am and how much he hates me without being able to say specifically why. I was supposed to take him to an eating spot of his choice after that - and he let me know that "he would only stay with me long enough to look at kittens to adopt and get something to eat and I won't go to your house." I decided I didn't want to reward him for that. His dad stood outside and screamed at him for coming home early and not behaving and my heart broke for him because I'm sure it must be confusing to go along with him for so long, listen to the nasty comments about me (just the night before, I called him, he was in an open spot with his stepmother, her friend, and possibly his father present, and he kept insulting me or covering the phone to make jokes about me, and no one corrected him and as far as I can tell they were laughing too...he said they did laugh because "it was funny" but that his father wasn't there.

So, back off and hope he changes his mind later and starts doing better socially and in school without any support? Or pursue it hard through the courts? Or what?



ASDMommyASDKid
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07 Oct 2015, 4:24 am

There is a lot to parse through here, and a lot of it is legal stuff I have no clue about, so I will start by saying what I have no clue about, which is the divorce/legal stuff. Having joint custody and not being on the same page (at all) is a problem, and one that I think it is going to be hard to not legally revisit. I am not a lawyer, and have no direct experience with this, but based on my limited reading, I think courts have a dim view of parental alienation, and if that is what is going on, you may have recourse.

That said, it is possible you have your son over-scheduled. I get that you want your son to be happy and social, but often times an aspie child is happiest not being what is in his mind excessively social. Enjoying a video game is in fact an interest, albeit one that you don't value. Not all kids like sports, and if he is not athletic, the odds are he is not going to like sports, no matter how positively you try to encourage them.

At 12, if he is bad at sports, it is likely not a social plus for him to participate in any more sports than he has to in PE or for general health. I would venture it would be the opposite, because if he is bad at it, the other kids are likely to mock him and possibly resent him if the coach "has to' play him and it makes them a worse team if he plays.

As to the rest of it, we have a thread discussing what is necessary therapy and what is too much, and it is a hard thing to quantify. I agree with those on that thread who say that if the therapy is taking away from a child's needed downtime or playtime, it may be too much. I don't know enough about your son to even come close to commenting on how that may or may not apply to you. I am guessing he needs something (but how much???) to deal with the divorce and to somehow help him accept it and his living arrangements. I don't know how much therapy he needs having to do with his autism and whether all of what he gets is necessary or not. That is a bigger conversation as well.

Going back and forth is probably exceedingly hard for a kid on the spectrum, but if you don't take him for your turn then he will think you don't love him, and I gather your father ex will encourage that perception. So you may have to go for primary physical custody and then that involves legal things I don't know anything about. I would assume if you can prove that his father is undermining your relationship etc. that this would be a viable option.

That said, if your son's ASD matches his dad's he may feel a bond to him that you cannot match and then he will resent you for taking over physical custody. So, again, I don't know what to advise here. If my parents had split up, I would have wanted to go with my dad, even though he was the "worse" parent by most objective measures other than finances, b/c my psychology (undiagnosed aspie) was a better match for his (also undiagnosed aspie)

My mom stressed a lot of things that I felt were unimportant and she was very annoying about it b/c sghe was OCD. I think I benefited from them counteracting each other's worse tendencies. I know that this is the opposite of what good parenting is supposed to be, but I benefited from being able to nullify a lot of what either would have done on his/her own by using the others opposite positions to countervail it. Living with them separately would have been a nightmare because I would have lived under all the bad rules alternately, and would not have gotten to nullify as many the bad rules/advice simultaneously as I ended up being able to do.

I would try to look objectively (even if your spouse and his wife are not) at how what you are doing therapy-wise is either making your son's life easier or harder, weighing actual benefit against the time-suck of it. I would try to parse out the goals that are needed (future career, etc.) vs. things you think are necessary for a happy childhood, that actually are the opposite, in his individual case. Vegging out with the computer is not an intrinsically bad thing unless it keeps him from doing homework, in which case he needs to learn self-control and balance. If it is that you want him to play B-ball instead because it seems more normal, then that is a thought process I would revisit, if that makes sense.

Edited to say I reread this, and I realize it does not sound as friendly as I intend. I think it is hard for an NT to get in the mind of an aspie and I would think if you are an aspie who is a different type than your kid it is also hard. So, I guess my main point is to look at it from your son's point of view also, not just what you hope for him in the future (although it is easy to get bogged down by those worries---but who he is and what he values, and make sure you try to share the things he likes (like video games) even if they seem useless to you. Sharing an interest with an aspie is a way into his world, and if you value his need for downtime also, an aspie will usually appreciate it--although especially in the pre-teen years he may not show it very well.



bbl215
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07 Oct 2015, 7:28 am

Thank you for replying and for reading through my long post.
I agree that therapy can be way too much. I hated the intense therapy too, having people invade our space so often and a lot of it seemed pointless. The mobile therapist he has now is supposed to help with his social skills and it's only an hour a week. He has a hard time having a regular conversation and will talk about things that literally don't make any sense. And he uses an unfriendly tone. I think regular practice would really help. I do think he has to want it himself and I really believe that he struggles with fitting in and really wants some tools to help. I'm hoping one day he'll approach it himself but am just afraid it will be too late. I think he's depressed and should talk to someone, and obviously the family dynamic could use some professional help but I think if we got over the bend we wouldn't need constant therapy.

As far as sports, no no no! I would and have never tried to get him into "regular" sports. In the past he joined a bowling league (he likes bowling) and he expressed an interest in fencing so he took some lessons in that. He was really good at it...he was good at karate as a child too. He's a bit uncoordinated in general but was awesome at the stances and moves in both fencing and karate.

I don't think computer games are totally useless, and I understand how it's an escape for him, and obviously easier to socialize virtually. It's just that I feel like he's addicted, it interferes with homework, sleep, everything. He's always had lots of computer time at my house - maybe even as much as at his dad's - I would just make him take breaks, and the computer was in the living room and not his bedroom so that he could still be sort of part of the family and not secluded in a corner.

I just think he has a lot of potential, he's very bright, and can be really funny and witty. I just want him to reach his potential and learn to follow rules to avoid more trouble later as a teenager/adult.



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07 Oct 2015, 10:17 am

bbl215 wrote:
...I initiated the divorce...he was a good dad...
Your kids probably will never forgive you for this. If there was abuse or a good reason for divorce, you'd have something, but you gave up on the family. You took your kid's family away from them, forever, without a good reason. Your ex-husband isn't doing this to you. You did it to yourself.



bbl215
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07 Oct 2015, 10:43 am

He was a good dad in that he wasn't really a "bad" dad. He read them stories and helped with bath time. Beyond that, there wasn't much. He would come home from work and get on the computer to play games, take a break for dinner and then get back to the computer until it was time to get them in bed. We didn't do stuff on weekends and didn't do vacations - like, his father was a Disney lover and wanted to take us all but the ex was anti-Disney.

There really wasn't much "family". I felt like there was plenty of emotional abuse, but I guess that doesn't count. My family, friends, the doctor who delivered my son, the neighbors, our doctor and some others always assumed there was abuse and were glad I got away. I just planned on taking my kids full time.

Although, from the beginning I have thought often (briefly) about trying to reconcile. It would have been kind of difficult since his girlfriend moved in pretty much the day I moved out.



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07 Oct 2015, 12:20 pm

Ok...

Let's parse this out.

He has ASD, so that means his coping skills are much younger. He's having a tantrum ala 8 year old.

BUT there is a whole heaping of s**t, manipulative teen brat behavior going on here, stoked by your ex (supposedly). My niece went through the same thing with her parent's divorce.

The minute that little charmer swore at me or gave me the finger, his happy little ass would be right back with dad and his wife. Don't scream. Don't get upset. Don't show any emotion.

"You are picking this choice to go to back." That's it don't elaborate.

I would be so unemotional. You just give choices. Want to come or you want to stay? Stay? Okay. Talk to you later. Love you. Then leave.

It's in your ex's court. If he is talking s**t about you, a few unscheduled time with Captain Unhappy Underpant will certainly change. You don't think they enjoy their along time? You think they want a raging 12 year old back, screaming and caring on? Oh hell and no! Lol....

Whether he forgives you about the divorce, that's his choice. Forgiveness is something you give yourself. He has to work that through himself.

My SIL did the choice/unemotional deal with her daughter. Her daughter was heavily invested in being the angry, wronged teen. When my SIL stop the fighting, pleading and carry on, it blew her daughter's mind. After all, you treat people with respect. Swearing and being a pill is not respectful to anyone. If your child can act decent to a strange, he can act civil with you.

Worse case scenario is this all gets dragged back to family court, and your son and ex can pleaded their case to the judge.

Treat me like a dog, and expect me to take it? Nope. Maybe your son needs to voice his issues to the judge, and let everyone rehash the visitation out.



bbl215
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07 Oct 2015, 2:30 pm

Thanks for replying! I do try to be more unemotional lately, versus the begging or asking why why why do you hate me, or getting angry and frustrated myself. But he really doesn't want to be with me, so going back to his dad's is a win for him. He doesn't have tantrums exactly either, he just won't get in the car. With the other stuff, he is pretty quiet, little insulting quips or just saying he hates me in a conversational tone.

Tawaki wrote:
It's in your ex's court. If he is talking s**t about you, a few unscheduled time with Captain Unhappy Underpant will certainly change. You don't think they enjoy their along time? You think they want a raging 12 year old back, screaming and caring on? Oh hell and no! Lol....

He hasn't been here in over a month, so they already deal with having him unscheduled time. He sits in his room in front of the computer for hours on end, can get his own food and stuff so I don't think he interacts with them all that much. They hang out in their bedroom and watch TV.

I don't think he mouths off at his dad. From what I hear his dad is kind of ramping up discipline lately, so that could change. He has told his stepmother f*** you, when there was some sort of big family fight. The stepmother said to his dad, aren't you going to do anything about that and his dad said well you ARE kind of being a b****.

Tawaki wrote:
After all, you treat people with respect. Swearing and being a pill is not respectful to anyone. If your child can act decent to a strange, he can act civil with you.

Most of the time, he doesn't act decent to strangers though. It's been an ongoing problem in school, his disrespect. One reason I think he needs to be here more. If he was doing well in school and showing respect, I'd honestly let him have more space and not keep trying to get him to be here.

Tawaki wrote:
Worse case scenario is this all gets dragged back to family court, and your son and ex can pleaded their case to the judge.

I do think I am going to either petition for custody or file a contempt complaint. Or at least threaten to if we can't get on the same page. I'm just worried about making it worse. I think he might run away to his dad's house, it would be hard to enforce rules or good behavior when he doesn't listen to me. The police here have told me that they won't do anything to force him to come to my house. I am at the point where I need to either do that or just give up though.

Also we never actually went to family court. We went to a mediator to hash out the details and he insisted on half, equal custody. I told him I wanted them with me more of the time, but they could stop by whenever. That was a no deal for him. I was advised that a judge would most likely agree with him.

Thanks again for listening. :)



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08 Oct 2015, 7:19 am

I was trying to think of something additionally helpful to advise, but I think unfortunately your next step is probably a lawyer, and I honestly do not know what else to advise in addition to that.

From your additional descriptions, i think your son is acting out against the divorce, and when he can't use you as the whipping boy, he goes after the new stepmom there. I think he is trying to blame everyhbody else but his dad (because they are alike???) but it may be that his rage won't be able to stay out of his direction forever.

Divorce and change of any type is harder on someone who is predisposed to need more stability than other people. That does not mean the divorce was a wrong thing, but only that he needs more time and help to adjust to it. More so then other kids, he really needs all the adults (not just one) to act like adults and not have his other set of parents act like mean girls at the popular lunch table.

I don't know how you get that fixed, which is why you need an actual lawyer to tell you the options and the probabilities. I don't think your son is acting like a brat---trying to leverage parents to get his way-- so much as he is hurt and angry. I would also try not to take what he says personally, b/c he has emotions he probably has little idea how to direct properly.

Try to hang in there, and good luck.



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10 Oct 2015, 4:55 am

First off, wow Anachron that is a completely uncalled for statement. And I think you've completely got the wrong end of the stick. You don't know what it's like to live with someone who is excessively critical and negative and just sucks the life out of you. Some people may be able to deal with that, but for me (and I've lived with this) it led to a completely miserable experience, depression, anxiety and crumbling physical as well as mental health. But even if you haven't and you're 100% correct (you're not) how is that comment helpful?

Also - this guy doesn't SOUND like a 'good dad' to me. He sounds like a lazy, self-absorbed dad who wants half time custody so he can avoid child support or out of some sense of 'equity'.

But OP - I have to agree with others here that the son is probably overscheduled at your house.I get that you may be overcompensating because dad doesn't do socialisation or make him do homework or activities or whatever. I'm in a similar position to you, although my son is NT and he likes going to activities, etc and is a bit younger.

I suggest that you go back to mediation and see if you can agree a parenting plan that includes activities and homework, etc as well as physical custody so that there is a balance between houses. My ex doesn't do any activities with my son and became verbally abusive when I asked him to do *some* of the homework with my son - not only so that I didn't have to do it all, but also because it's time to crack down at school and he needs to know that both parents value him doing well academically. My ex wants him to do well, but didn't want the struggles of making him do homework. We now have a system where my ex does the easy bits of homework with him and I do the hard bits, the bits our son really hates doing. Is this fair? No. But it's better than before.



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10 Oct 2015, 12:38 pm

I was separated from my husband for 2 years, but we managed to keep it civil, so I have no first hand experience for you. A close friend of mine went through hell with his ex-wife, though. In his case, the lawyer deemed it "parental alienation" because his ex was acting a lot like your ex. I don't know if it is different in different states, but brining that term up in court stopped some of the behavior.

Regarding your son's behavior, while I understand your heart must break because he is in a set of circumstances that he did not create and cannot change and is simply dealing with it in a very ineffective manner, I have to agree with Tawaki. Do not tolerate it, but do not get emotional about it either. Set limits and stick to them. Make sure he knows you love him regardless of how he treats you, but that you--quite frankly--have no intention whatsoever of being treated with blatant disrespect. Empathize with him. Tell him you know this is hard, it's not fair, and that you know he is struggling. Tell him you understand it is tempting to make fun of you when it gets laughs, tell him you believe that deep inside he knows it's not right, but you understand how hard the situation is for him. Acknowledge that you know it must be confusing to him to have to live with two parents who are not on the same page. Apologize for that, because even though you may have little control over it, it is both you and your ex's joint responsibility to continue to parent appropriately, and in that regard, it is your failure, together. Never disparage his father. Ever. Under any circumstances. And say that in your home, everyone deserves to be treated with respect. Even his father. Outline what "respect" means to you...no name calling, no middle finger, no cursing... whatever, but be very concrete and be very aware that you will need to hold up your end of it, too. If YOU break the rule, immediately acknowledge it, own it, and model whatever behavior you expect from your son. Develop some kind of "time out" rule. Not as a punishment, but as a right to seek escape when necessary (this is critical for me and my kids).

Try to have conversations about these things when you are not already heated. Ask him what respect means to him. I firmly believe that how you respond to all of this will shape your future. It may take a long time to get there, but if you consistently treat him with love and respect, while setting appropriate boundaries, and model the behavior you expect of him, eventually you will "win." By win, I don't mean come out on top of his dad. By "win" I mean establish a mutually respectful relationship.

I think if I were in your shoes, it would kill me. I think how I would survive is by focusing on doing what is best for my son and his continued moral development, and not focusing on how I felt. For all of the pain, this could actually teach him more about what it means to be a person of integrity than he would have learned otherwise.


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Anachron
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10 Oct 2015, 11:08 pm

elkclan wrote:
First off, wow Anachron that is a completely uncalled for statement. And I think you've completely got the wrong end of the stick. You don't know what it's like to live with someone who is excessively critical and negative and just sucks the life out of you. Some people may be able to deal with that, but for me (and I've lived with this) it led to a completely miserable experience, depression, anxiety and crumbling physical as well as mental health. But even if you haven't and you're 100% correct (you're not) how is that comment helpful?
An unfiltered bucket of truth is not for everybody. I thought this was about the Son. Nope. It is a selfish pity party with self-centered guests. I relate to the Son because my Mother did the same thing when I was 8 years old. My Father never raised his hand or voice to my Mother or us kids. She ruined several lives thinking only of herself.
Yes, I am currently suffering a soul-sucking marriage so bad that I hardly remember the last time I lived through a day without thinking about killing myself (because of my spouse). I suffer for my children because no matter how messed up it is, this is the only family they will get. What is worth taking it from them?



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10 Oct 2015, 11:32 pm

bbl215 wrote:
I have two sons. The older one (my aspie) is 12. His brother is 11. His dad and I have joint custody and live about a half mile apart. The boys switch houses on Mondays and stay with each parent for a full week. We've been divorced for 4.5 years now and my relationship with my older son keeps getting worse and more of an uphill battle.

...I initiated the divorce basically because the ex was a very negative person who sucked the life out of life. We didn't do much as a family, he was a good dad but not very engaged, never encouraged the boys to do social stuff or sports or anything.\


But YOU chose him when (and if) you were dating.

My sister recently divorced her husband of 13 yrs., after dating for 7 (1995-2002) and THEN taking another 4 yrs. till they had their first kid in '06.

I don't really LIKE her husband and vice versa. We never "connected". He's a clinical type - a Dentist, and my sister is a Dental Hygienist...so I figured maybe the reason he's so "quiet" is because he's an NT.

Why do people pick the "wrong person" to marry, and why do some people (usually the women) give such a feeble excuse for divorcing?

This has caused ME to become more depressed than ever, and suicidal.


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10 Oct 2015, 11:40 pm

bbl215 wrote:
Thank you for replying and for reading through my long post.
I agree that therapy can be way too much. I hated the intense therapy too, having people invade our space so often and a lot of it seemed pointless. The mobile therapist he has now is supposed to help with his social skills and it's only an hour a week. He has a hard time having a regular conversation and will talk about things that literally don't make any sense. And he uses an unfriendly tone. I think regular practice would really help.


...to you.


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11 Oct 2015, 11:01 pm

ASDMommyASDKid wrote:
I was trying to think of something additionally helpful to advise, but I think unfortunately your next step is probably a lawyer, and I honestly do not know what else to advise in addition to that.

Thanks! I do think I am going to go the court route. And so nice of you to spend time thinking about this. :)
elkclan wrote:
Also - this guy doesn't SOUND like a 'good dad' to me. He sounds like a lazy, self-absorbed dad who wants half time custody so he can avoid child support or out of some sense of 'equity'.

Exactly...which is why it's such a struggle to make a decision. If he was in a good or even good enough environment, I would back off. I just don't think he is, but then I start to second guess my own opinion.
elkclan wrote:
But OP - I have to agree with others here that the son is probably overscheduled at your house.I get that you may be overcompensating because dad doesn't do socialisation or make him do homework or activities or whatever. I'm in a similar position to you, although my son is NT and he likes going to activities, etc and is a bit younger.



I think I didn't explain the activities properly. :) All that stuff was over the course of 4 years. I would like to do one therapy session and one activity a week.

Anachron wrote:
elkclan wrote:
First off, wow Anachron that is a completely uncalled for statement. And I think you've completely got the wrong end of the stick. You don't know what it's like to live with someone who is excessively critical and negative and just sucks the life out of you. Some people may be able to deal with that, but for me (and I've lived with this) it led to a completely miserable experience, depression, anxiety and crumbling physical as well as mental health. But even if you haven't and you're 100% correct (you're not) how is that comment helpful?
An unfiltered bucket of truth is not for everybody. I thought this was about the Son. Nope. It is a selfish pity party with self-centered guests. I relate to the Son because my Mother did the same thing when I was 8 years old. My Father never raised his hand or voice to my Mother or us kids. She ruined several lives thinking only of herself.
Yes, I am currently suffering a soul-sucking marriage so bad that I hardly remember the last time I lived through a day without thinking about killing myself (because of my spouse). I suffer for my children because no matter how messed up it is, this is the only family they will get. What is worth taking it from them?

Actually this did help. I was looking for responses from people who might feel like my son, so it does make me consider more the idea that like his dad says this is all my fault, he will never forgive me and I should just walk away now.

And that is horrible. It's sad to know you feel that way. If it really is that bad it's great that you can even function as a family - I didn't feel like we could which was one of the reasons for the divorce. If I was a child, I wouldn't want my parent to feel like that because of me.

LilZebra wrote:
But YOU chose him when (and if) you were dating.
Why do people pick the "wrong person" to marry, and why do some people (usually the women) give such a feeble excuse for divorcing?

This has caused ME to become more depressed than ever, and suicidal.


True, and in darker moments I do think I deserve what I get for marrying him in the first place. I didn't think he was the "wrong person" though and we were together for 5 years first. He became insufferable after the marriage and even more after kids. I think he resented having them even though we'd agreed we wanted them.

I don't know why it would cause YOU to become more depressed and I hope you're joking.
LilZebra wrote:
bbl215 wrote:
and will talk about things that literally don't make any sense.


...to you.


No, seriously. To anyone. I'm not ridiculing him or wanting him to change, I just want him to be able to function better and I know that he can.

InThisTogether wrote:
Regarding your son's behavior, while I understand your heart must break because he is in a set of circumstances that he did not create and cannot change and is simply dealing with it in a very ineffective manner, I have to agree with Tawaki. Do not tolerate it, but do not get emotional about it either. Set limits and stick to them. Make sure he knows you love him regardless of how he treats you, but that you--quite frankly--have no intention whatsoever of being treated with blatant disrespect. Empathize with him. Tell him you know this is hard, it's not fair, and that you know he is struggling. Tell him you understand it is tempting to make fun of you when it gets laughs, tell him you believe that deep inside he knows it's not right, but you understand how hard the situation is for him. Acknowledge that you know it must be confusing to him to have to live with two parents who are not on the same page. Apologize for that, because even though you may have little control over it, it is both you and your ex's joint responsibility to continue to parent appropriately, and in that regard, it is your failure, together. Never disparage his father. Ever. Under any circumstances. And say that in your home, everyone deserves to be treated with respect. Even his father. Outline what "respect" means to you...no name calling, no middle finger, no cursing... whatever, but be very concrete and be very aware that you will need to hold up your end of it, too. If YOU break the rule, immediately acknowledge it, own it, and model whatever behavior you expect from your son. Develop some kind of "time out" rule. Not as a punishment, but as a right to seek escape when necessary (this is critical for me and my kids).

Try to have conversations about these things when you are not already heated. Ask him what respect means to him. I firmly believe that how you respond to all of this will shape your future. It may take a long time to get there, but if you consistently treat him with love and respect, while setting appropriate boundaries, and model the behavior you expect of him, eventually you will "win." By win, I don't mean come out on top of his dad. By "win" I mean establish a mutually respectful relationship.

I think if I were in your shoes, it would kill me. I think how I would survive is by focusing on doing what is best for my son and his continued moral development, and not focusing on how I felt. For all of the pain, this could actually teach him more about what it means to be a person of integrity than he would have learned otherwise.
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This is REALLY helpful. I've had most of the limits, time outs, respect discussions before, and I've apologized for the divorce but never for being in the middle and parents who can't work together. I didn't really want to acknowledge it and seem like I was blaming his dad, but this seems like a great idea. I think I will do it via letter. He shuts out these kinds of conversations and I'm not sure when I will get to speak to him again. I took my younger out tonight, told him to ask his brother to come out to say hello, he didn't. He took out the trash so I waited but he just ran back in the house without acknowledging me. But he did have his first couple of good days at school and his first week without sleeping in class. I am going to wait a couple of weeks to see if he continues to do well, pick him up from school when I can - that is the only thing that usually makes him come over - and pursue this in a more legal way depending on how school goes. I think. :)



elkclan
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12 Oct 2015, 2:13 am

@anachron

Quote:
An unfiltered bucket of truth is not for everybody.


Whose truth? Yours? Are you sure? Do you think you fully understand your mother's perspective? You certainly don't understand OP's perspective.

Truth in these circumstances is not objective. Your truth is not THE truth.



momsparky
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13 Oct 2015, 6:00 pm

Just one suggestion, and my experience with it is only that I have a friend who IS a lawyer and went through an initially ugly custody dispute: have you tried mediation? Your state may have a mediation system set up that allows you to have a professional and neutral third party help you through these issues - if not, you can usually find a mediation service.

I admit I didn't read your post carefully, and therefore might be missing some pieces - but did you say your son wasn't receiving services at school? I believe you have rights there as a non-custodial parent as long as custody is shared, and you might want to call the school district and ask. It may be beneficial to wait to actually do anything at the school until you get through mediation/legal custody agreement stuff, but you can gather information.

FYI, to the folks who have posted about staying in bad marriages - if I could go back in time and grant my parents a divorce, I would do it in a heartbeat. While figuring out which parent to stay with would not be something I'd want to have done, saving myself the years of misery as my parents (probably unconsciously) used me to make each other miserable would be worth it. Watching my parents try to smother and hide their hatred for each other (and to constantly talk about how paramount it was to "keep the family together") was something that negatively impacted my life and my ability to have relationships well into adulthood.

I can't speak to divorced families because I didn't have one, but from what I see around me, divorce is something that people are able to move on from and heal from, and what I grew up with stayed exactly the way it was until my parents finally figured out that they needed each other to survive; they were well in their 80s before that happened. I see lots of my divorced friends getting remarried and having successful blended families.

YMMV, but I am a living example of a child who would have preferred that my parents got a divorce and did so from the time I learned what divorce was - and as a middle-aged woman, still feel that way.