Oh, the emails I've been getting from the school....

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This is the first one, my kid had a bad day in the middle of a bad week...he caught a cold and everything went FUBAR it ended with him having a full out aspergian-style panic attack, shouting, drop-kicking notebooks, and shoving desks during the last period of the day (that teacher wanted to spout "Love and Logic" quotes while he was having an anxiety attack- completely unhelpful. Why don't they write a book called "Compassionate and Validating"? Then they could finally stop writing books about how to talk to people.) The funny thing for me is that each teacher only sees their side of it. The emails get worse with each class period that passes) It's like viewing the path of a tornado after it hits.

Dear [Mother of un-named student with autism- A neurological difference which, you will see, I obviously do not know anything about]
This past week I [advanced middle school orchestra teacher] had an issue with [said unnamed 6th grade student-with-autism/violinist of 6 years (but I never mention the autism so even though I know about it it's like the autism is inconsequential to the situation I am about to describe]…on Monday, I set up the classroom so that we could rehearse as an ensemble and asked the students to take a seat in their areas. [This unnamed student] decided that he didn’t want to be in the Orchestra Arcs and moved his chair so it would be in the grid formation. I asked him to move himself to join the rest of the class because that was today’s assignment. He didn’t like it but moved about 10 minutes later. The high school orchestra director had stopped by that day and asked the students to do certain exercises [she means play the same thing over and over again for 20 minutes] to help them fix some intonation and posture issues. He was very hesitant to participate in the exercises [after the first 10 minutes]. I would silently signal to him to participate. She asked [the unnamed student] to move to the edge of his seat to which he replied “I don’t see the point of doing that…” He was then asked to put his instrument away [and sit in the hallway for 15 min.happily, I'm guessing]. I talked to him in my office about his rude reaction to Ms. S, why it was not appropriate, and assigned him lunch detention for the following day [eating alone, such a horror for an autistic student]. We also discussed that if he had any issue with any teacher, he could always talk to them after class. [during the 4 min pass period assuming one of the other 50 kids does not get to her first]
Later that day I talked to Ms. S about his behavior and she mentioned that he has this type of outburst from him, when she works with the violin section, pretty frequently. Monday was the first time I had ever seen [this unnamed student] behave this way towards me or towards anyone else. I hope this type of behavior does not continue in this class or any other.
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The mother's questions: Is is ok to for a teacher to label my child's behavior as rude? I mean aren't professionals supposed to say "socially inappropriate behavior" when they are talking about the problematic behavior of someone on the spectrum or near the spectrum or...anyone who is a human being?

And, really? My kid should be punished twice for asking a question in a socially unacceptable way? And in the scheme of things is it really that bad that he took 10 min. to get used to the room config? I mean seating arrangements are kind of a big deal to autistic people, 10 min seems reasonable to me. Next time it might be five min.

I suppose I'm gonna have to find out what type of "outbursts" my son is having during sectionals. Anyone else with autism play in an orchestra and know what this teacher is talking about? I think they want me to send him with a gag and a big sack to stuff his feelings into and start a fund for the alcoholism he will develop as a adult from a lifetime of making other people feel comfortable around him at his own expense. What's the socially appropriate response for handling frustration during a violin sectional rehersal?

Oh, I forwarded the email to my son's case manager and I'm sure I will discuss it with the school psychologist next week. I only posted it here so I could let it go and won't slash and burn the teacher's fragile ego. My kid will survive another day and may actually keep playing the violin if we can figure out how to make his needs known to this sectionals teacher. Plus, I'm right...Right?!?!?!?!

Thanks for listening, lacklustermom
P.S. No notebooks were actually harmed.

I am sorry this happened, and I understand why you are upset. I used to HATE to pick my son up from school at the end of the day, because every day was nothing but a list of all of the things he did/didn't do that day. If the school's number came up on caller ID, my stomach sunk, because I knew he did something again. If it was a call for my daughter? Forget it, I was probably going to have to go pick her up. I get it. It sucks.

I do have two perspectives I would like to share, however, because they have been extremely important in raising my kids.

As a mom of 2 kids on the spectrum, I have found it most beneficial to label my kids' behavior the way the world will label it. Yes, I understand my son never meant to be rude when he would argue with the teacher, start yelling, and storm out of the classroom. He was overwhelmed and was responding to an increasing feeling of losing control. But what worked best was for him to understand that while his behavior made sense from his perspective, and although I understood him storming out was a retreat strategy to avoid having an all out meltdown in front of his classmates, it was perceived as rude by others. He's not a rude kid, and doesn't want to be perceived as rude, so we had to come up with another plan. "Socially inappropriate behavior" does not make sense to a kid on the spectrum, because that label means "picking your nose in public," "disrobing," "yelling at teachers," "pushing other students" and a whole host of other things. IMHO, you need to label it what it is, otherwise it is meaningless to the kid. This is important later on (or, actually in our case by your son's age), because at some point your kid will have to decide when he will just engage in behavior that is socially questionable or atypical (like wearing a Pokémon shirt to school every day) because it is important to him, regardless of social norms, and when he will choose to follow the social norm so as not to draw negative attention to himself (like carrying his collection of rocks in his pockets and pulling them out and discussing them with random people.)

If my daughter were a part of something like orchestra, she might try to pull things like moving the chairs out of their arrangements if she didn't want to sit that way. However, she has learned that the classroom does not belong to her, and she is not permitted to just do as she pleases. If the teacher has moved her chair/desk, she needs to sit wherever it was moved to. To move it would be rude and is not acceptable. My daughter has more issues with rigidity than my son does, so these kinds of things have been harder for her. But my expectation is that she attempts to adapt. If she cannot, she has an open pass to go to the school psychologist for help, who will then work with her and her teacher to find something that can work. In second grade, she was still quite rigid, and moving her seat would have caused a problem. She is now in 5th grade, and as long as the "change" is the same for everyone, she can accept it. This is an important progression toward her ability to be an independent, employable adult in the future. I think it is worth the discomfort she has had to endure to increase her flexibility.

When my kids were younger, I thought the world should just embrace them the way they are, quirks and all. The idealist in me still feels this way. There is nothing wrong with my kids and for the most part, the "accommodations" they would actually need from others are minimal. But the realist in me has come to understand that there are rules in society, and no one is going to give my kids an pass to be exempt from following them. I have worked very hard to give them the skills they will need as adults to manage. This means that sometimes they have to do things they don't want to do, things that don't make sense to them, and things they see as pointless. EVERYONE has to do those things. There will be things that they truly cannot help. Those things we will have to be creative and find a way to work around and compensate for (my daughter has selective mutism, for example, and my son has serious EF issues).

I think the hardest part as a parent is to find the line between what they don't want to do or what is uncomfortable to do and what they can't do. When my kids were younger, I--because of my own personality--had a very hard time pushing them. I just wanted to embrace and accept them. I was so sensitive to their plight as an atypically wired person in a world not designed to suite them. But the older they have gotten, the more I have realized that they need to be able to function in the world that actually exists, not in the world I think should be. My role as their mom has switched from "validating and accepting them" to "preparing them for independence." Of course, I still validate and accept them, but I push them much more than I used to. And we talk about why. And their teachers talk about why. And their guidance counselors/school psychologists talk about why. We all talk about why. Why? Because we want them to have the skills they need to do what they want in life. We do not want them to be held back by their differences. We want them to achieve. We want them to excel. We want them to have satisfying/fulfilling lives. They also wan these things, so they are going to have to trust us in helping them get there.

That is what is working in our family. I do recognize that my kids' level of functioning allows this approach. It is not always easy, but over time we have seen heartwarming improvements. I realize that different kids have different capacities. I know there are kids on the spectrum out there who are doing better than mine, and I know there are kids who are not able to do what my kids do, not due to their lack of effort or their parent's lack of trying, but because it is what it is.

My point is this, your son needs to understand which behaviors will be labeled as rude by others and why, because he likely won't be able to figure this out by himself. One of the hardest things for my son at that age was that he was aware he was doing something to p*ss other people off, but he had no idea what it might be. For him, this caused anxiety. For other kids, I imagine it could create anger. From my son's perspective, his reactions and responses always make logical sense, and sometimes he did things like your son did in telling the teacher that "I don't see the point in doing that." He didn't mean to be fresh. He was simply sharing his thoughts. Teachers see that as challenging and fresh, though, so he had to learn not to share those kinds of thoughts. Another big one for my son was correcting teachers in front of students. He honestly didn't get what was wrong with that. From his POV, his teacher should be happy for receiving the correct information. However, once my son understood that this would almost always be considered rude, he stopped doing it, even though he still thinks others should see it as helpful.

Also, it might be helpful for your son to understand the teacher is the maker of the rules in the classroom. He/she decides where the chairs will be, what will be played, etc. As a former school musician, I understand that doing the same exercises over and over again or playing the same things repetitively is not fun, can be boring, and can get downright tedious. That being said, it is part of the experience. If this is something your son cannot learn to participate in, despite not wanting to, perhaps it is time to find something more suitable for him. I don't mean this in a mean way, honestly I don't. But I am assuming he is in Middle School now. Starting in Middle School, these types of activities only get more structured and more stressful. If he can't tolerate it, maybe now is the time to find something else for him. It is part of being in an orchestra. If he can't do it, then he really isn't part of the orchestra, and if he is not part of the orchestra, what is the purpose of it, except to antagonize him, his teachers, and his fellow students. For me, personally, I would ask him if he wants to be in the orchestra. If he said no, then that would be the end of that. If he said yes, then he would have to understand, and abide, by some rules. 1) you sit where your chair is, 2) you listen to your teacher, and 3) you play what you are told to play. Those rules are not unreasonable. And if they are, then perhaps it is not the right place for the kid.

I hope you are not taking offense to what I am saying. But I have learned a lot between 6th and 9th grade with my son. Things don't get easier. More and more is expected from the school and from society. It isn't easy. But I push him to try. He is now doing very well at school. This does mean I have to "go easier" on him at home sometimes because his capacity has been exhausted, but he is doing more than I ever thought he could. And because we have kept the dialogue open and he knows exactly why I am doing what I am doing, and because we share the same goal (to have him be able to live on his own), we struggle through the hard times together. He has to trust me. If I am pushing him, it is because I think he needs to be pushed. And I have to listen to him, if he tells me that something is honestly too much, I need to back off. It is a balance, but it has been well worth it.

Good luck to you.

Well, it's nice to know I'm not the only one who gets these type of messages, and thinks the same things you think in response.
Allow me to add my own version of the Uh-Oh email:
"Your son does X autistic behavior, which for some reason shocks me even though HFA is written right there in his file. Please stop him being autistic in the future. I, the educational professional, cannot figure out how to manage my own classroom, but that's your fault and your responsibility to fix remotely from your house. Thanks."

I am going to speak both as a mother and as a teacher (specifically as a music teacher who runs an orchestra for middle & high-school students.)

First off, as a mother. My son exhibits some autistic behaviors (he is not diagnosed, so you can take this with a grain of salt.) When he was younger, he said and did things that were disrespectful toward me, but I knew they were not intentional. Instead of punishing him or calling him a bad kid, I just said matter-of-factly "that is disrespectful. You may not talk to me that way." Other times, he would freak out and I would say "It is OK to be angry, but that is not an appropriate way to express it." Then I would tell him how he could express his anger more appropriately. I would also give LOTS of warning about what he should expect and how he was supposed to act in certain (mostly new) situations ahead of time. Etc.

I'm sure you all do these things, too.

I mention this because it affects how I teach. I treat my students the same way, for the most part. I think it is general "good interaction with kids" because it acknowledges their autonomy yet reinforces my authority. If a kid is disrespectful to me in class, I will say "that is disrespectful, and that kind of talking is not allowed here." If it keeps up, THEN I know the kid is being purposeful in his/her disrespect and needs some kind of discipline. I would give notice ahead of time in changes to how the class would be structured. Tomorrow, so-and-so will be here and we will do such-and-such. In addition, if I got a "challenge" from a student like "I don't see the point", I would take that as an opportunity for a teaching moment for the whole class. Instead of interpreting it as a threat, I would say, "Class, why do we do these exercises? Does anyone have any ideas?" And then we would discuss the importance of warm-ups, why we do them as a group, and why we might need to repeat them a lot even when it is tedious. I see the complaint as a hidden question and a GOOD question, just expressed wrongly/awkwardly.

BUT, I don't think a lot of people automatically know how to interact this way. "Normal" people are used to "normal" people, so they interpret things as how they would be meant coming from a "normal" person. Just knowing that someone is autistic doesn't mean that someone knows how to interact with that person or can anticipate what situations might bring about a less-than-desirable reaction and be able to do things that may prevent it.

Neither am I saying that I know everything there is to know about teaching kids with autism. I can only say that I've had relative success with my own son and with some piano students I've had. I also believe I am on the spectrum (not diagnosed), so I treat the kids the way I'd like to be treated. And, frankly, being very specific with ALL kids and giving them ALL extra preparation for new things, etc. does them NO HARM, and at the same time will help the kids who actually are autistic.

I have a degree in education, and I got no training at all as an undergrad on how to interact with autistic students. Anything I have done has only been what is natural to me, and based on how *I* would like to be treated with respect as an autonomous individual.

First of all, the title of this thread made me laugh and roll my eyes: I so absolutely know what you mean! Org.

My son quit orchestra in 6th grade, largely because he had this sort of teacher in 4th and 5th grade and even though the 6th grade teacher actually had a clue, he couldn't MAKE HIS INSTRUMENT PERFECT and we just decided it wasn't worth the battle since he was doing so well everywhere else.

I do regret it slightly, because it denied him the opportunity to be in band in high school, which is where some nerdy kids become socially successful...but I am realizing that it was probably inevitable. I'm still mad at that teacher (he didn't set his lesson schedule until 5 minutes before school started and he expected kids to magically stop what they were doing and jump up to get to lessons without a prompt. And then during lessons he constantly told my son he had to play "perfectly," after years of us trying to remove the word "perfect" from my son's very literal vocabulary (we now say "practice makes improvement. Because we have to.) We spent every morning in the principal's office trying to reset his alarm watch to go off when the lesson was scheduled...I hope someday that guy gets a full understanding of what all that meant to a kid on the spectrum.) ARGH.

I hope you don't wind up having to quit orchestra, but I'm also not certain that educating the teacher is feasible. Clearly, the teacher needs educating. Is there an alternative? Can the school offer private lessons with a different teacher until this teacher figures it out?

While I wouldn't let your son completely off the hook (he at least needs an explanation of how his behavior appeared from the outside,) you might try finding a resource to explain pragmatics and how kids on the spectrum tend to be overly literal. I used to go into IEP meetings with this PDF http://www.casenex.com/casenex/cecReadi ... ntTips.pdf

This one is also good: http://www.aspennj.org/pdf/information/ ... ndrome.pdf

Sometimes the kinds of teachers who frame our kids as "rude" respond better to official-looking documents from educational organizations rather than common sense feedback from parents.

It was so hard for me to read your post with all the parenthesis and words in them because it takes my focus away from the picture in my head I am trying to create with your words so I have no clue what happened in it. It would help if you used fictionalized names because I know that not everyone wants to use real names which is why people use fake names for real people online. I even tried skipping the words inside the parenthesis but it was still hard to concentrate because it was too long.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the teacher's email, it seems to me that your son was in the wrong with his behaviors. The teacher gave instructions to sit in certain configuration, and your son didn't follow instructions for 10 minutes. That is a long delay over the course of a class. I don't think it is ok for autistic students to not have to follow instructions and what the rest of the group is doing in an obvious group activity like orchestra. The student needs to adapt in this case, as they are voluntarily participating in a group activity in which seating is important, esp for performance later. Also, why is it ok for him not to participate in the practices after 10 minutes? Perhaps he doesn't see the point of it, but others may see the point, and the teacher may have a purpose to fix intonation and posture issues.

I have found some music teachers to be amazing. However, you can't assume they are aware of a child's special needs or how they may affect the child in their class.

They do need at least to accommodate a child. If you can identify something small that would help like being preset about expected changes that would be doable if they want to. They should but you're depending on them to do the right thing.

Actually, Waterfalls, that reminds me - we found out that DS's 504 (back when that was all we could get) had not been shared with any teachers outside of his homeroom. When he had an enormous, screaming, freaking out meltdown over "trash talk" in gym, we found out the hard way (his poor gym teacher had no idea!)

In re-reading your letter, it's possible that this teacher may not even know he has an IEP.

BTW, our school gave us some trumped-up BS answer when we went to them to ask why the 504 plan hadn't been shared with specials teachers - something to do with "not being able to share the 504 outside the classroom unless we signed a privacy release." Don't let them say that: a 504 or an IEP applies no matter where the kid is in school and no matter who has charge of him or her.

I'm sorry but I also think the teacher is in the right even with the autism in play. Your sons behavior was unacceptable and disrupted the rest of the class. He didn't follow instructions, on purpose. It's not that he didn't hear them, couldn't understand them, or couldn't remember them... he just refused to follow them. That is something that he needs to work on and he IS capable of mastering the skill of sitting in the formation required by his music teacher. Had the teacher not sent this letter, it's entirely possible you would never have known that this occurred (don't know about your DS but my DD certainly doesn't tell me about this sort of thing, I rely on the teachers to tell me) and you need to know so that you can reinforce at home the idea that in order to participate in orchestra, he must follow the instructions.

Learning to follow instructions and not be disruptive in settings like that are life skills that must be learned, granted they are much harder for our kiddos to learn... which is why we have to be vigilant in perpetually reinforcing the fact that this sort of behavior is unacceptable for the reasons X,Y,Z and if the behavior occurs again A,B, or C will happen. My daughter has done these sorts of things and there have always been consequences for her when it was a matter of her clearly not following instructions that were heard and understood. If she persists, we remove her from the activity entirely if it's an elective and tell her she needs to show us that she wants to do it before we will put her back in. If we don't draw a hard line in the sand on these issues now it will be way too late when she is in her 20's and trying to hold down a job. She will be too set in her ways and it will be way harder to change.

Perhaps he needs to be told why he has to warm up in band. I used to not understand why we all had to warm up in choir but I still did it. My mom told me it's to get our vocal cords started or else they will get sore quickly when you sing and she was right. It's like how some people like to warm up before they exercise because it gets their body started so they won't get as tired during the work out. It's the same with sports too for the same reason.

With autism, kids with it like to know the reason behind things or else they think it's stupid. Normal kids think this too but I think the difference is they just go with it like I did and kids with autism might not do it at all because they don't know the reason behind it.

Maybe sitting on the edge of his seat is uncomfortable for him. "I don't see the point..." could be his way of asking for an explanation, and not meant as a rhetorical question or a refusal. Maybe he just wanted to know why he was being asked to do something uncomfortable.
My son has it in his IEP that he can sit or stand however he likes to do his schoolwork. He finds sitting still on his butt really difficult. Even at home, he usually sits on his feet and gets up a lot. It's very distracting when we try to watch a movie. He's in band now, and so far it hasn't been an issue.

For some people, taking a hard line works. Don't conform, and lose privileges is what they do and they feel their children, or they themselves, are more successful for it.

Other children aren't successful with this approach and their parents know it and it would be inappropriate to get in a power struggle and escalate the child and, in all likelihood, themselves. OP you know your child and can best decide whether there is any utility to a hard line.

As far as what the law is, I know that schools are supposed to make activities available to all children able to participate but have no idea whether they need to provide aides and supports or just accommodations. If the teachers are able to understand and be supportive the band might work out. It they don't want to try then he might be better off dropping it. Whatever the law says.

My daughter was interested in band but the teacher was too negative and she did not want to be around that. You can't force staff to change their entire teaching style. (Though sometimes I've wished I could.) But I think what to do here would depend whether your child really wants band and whether the teacher is willing to adjust some.

IEP applies in band, which is typically a "special" class like art or music, within the school day. Afterschool programs are a little compicated http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/sec504.a ... abtree.htm

Thank you Momsparky. I wasn't sure though think it should be that way. I feel that we (the parents) need to let go and not try to insist our children conform at the point there is a school (societal) decision they cannot (yet) and need support. Unless we think they are wrong. But it is not good to play it both ways. If a child needs to be preset and have special treatment and that's the decision for how school is to go, it makes no sense to say band is available, but only if the child does what everyone says the child cannot manage yet for language arts and social studies and math. It would be setting that child up to fail to place him or her in band knowing the demand is for behavior he or she is not consistently able to engage in anywhere else during school; and we (the adults) should set children up to succeed.