Private Schools?

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Does anyone have any experience with private schools? I am hoping to find a way to protect my daughter from being tormented and scared to go to school. She is 6 and is begining to show serious signs that she REALY has a problem at school. I dont want to wait until more dammage is done before looking into this.

I went to a private school for two years, it was the best two years of my life!
It was a school for LD's, although all of us seemed a little socially stunted too!

I think the important thing in a private school is to see what the tone of the school is. Is their mandate one of acedemic excellence forsaking everything else? Are the students encouraged to be overly competitive? Do they have kids that struggle acedemically or socially, and if so, what is done to help them thrive? How effective is it?

If I possibly could, I would send my son to the one I went to in a minute!

In talking to the schools, be very candid about your daughters strengths and weaknesses, see what they can offer, if they are still interested in having her as a student. Ask how they handle certain things, really listen to what they are both telling and not telling you!

Btw, can you pull her out for the rest of the year? I would not leave her in a hostile enviornment, one that she does not feel safe in, or want to go to for genuine reasons!

Btw, can you pull her out for the rest of the year? I would not leave her in a hostile enviornment, one that she does not feel safe in, or want to go to for genuine reasons![/quote]

I am siding toward it, however it is not solely my decision. My wife wants to work with our behaviourist and the school. Having our daughter home is emotionaly draining and my wife takes the daily brunt of it.

Heres a question for you that will likely look like a stupid question by the time Im done writing it:
My daughter had a major melt down last week and undressed herself completely peed on a table and was sliding in her pee when my wife arrived at the school. (how she was allowed to get to that stage and to be seen this way by all her peers I dont knwo but intend to ask at our meeting tues.) My wife calmed her down got her to get dressed and left without a major incident.
Here comes the question, this is obviously an event that will stay with her throughout her school career and will be easy to target for any kid wanting to put her down later on. Is this event something so big that she might not be able to get past?
One thing to know and I think here is where I answer my own question, is that she is a very physicaly abled kid and very pretty. Most kids usualy want to be friends with her and her charisma draws them to her. These are great advantages for her. They also act as a mask for how scared she might be. She is a very good actor and likes to think that she knows everything, this show of confidence has people (even her parents) thinking that she is OK when she really is hurting inside. I've only been learning about AS for less than a year now but I think I am starting to understand my daughter more and more. Its hard to know where she is at when she is unable or unwilling to verbalise it. (I am trying to use stories with animals that mimic her and her life and she tells stories this way, its only been a couple of days, dont know if that method will stick or not.


Am I on the right track here? Sory for the cofusing path my brain doesnt always work in a straight line.
Also, someone suggested that me or my wife come to the schoo to talk to the kids about my daughter. My first reaction is Idiots! we are not autism sensitising experts. This could easily do more harm than good.
I really feel like I should take her out until there are real things in place to protect her and help her. How do I talk to this 6 year old who is acutely aware of her differences? We did a bedtime story about a cat that was different (a sphynx cat she chose) and that cat was in a class of tabi's (her words) even the teacher was a tabi. I told her one day there would be other sphynx cats that this sphynx would meet and be friends, but her idea was that one day the sphynx cat would begin to grow stripes. (like the tabi's)

Wow.

Last edited by Chris72 on 20 May 2007, 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sounds like a "major incident" to me--peeing on a table, undressed. This was at her school? This sounds very radical. How/why did this happen?

I would investigate. Does she do this at home, too?

Chris72, I'm not too sure about the Behaviorist, does he deal with just behaviors or does he also delve into the psychology behind them. Z, our 10 yr old has seen a psychiatrist and clinical psychologist since he was three. These children have as much difficulty getting in tune with thir own feelings as they do with someone elses. Also we have found that family sessions have helped to take some of the strain off other members of our family and you and your wife might find them helpful.

Can your daughter get over this incident aty school? Sure she can but it will take some help and she sounds as if help will be needed to learn to control her severe meltdowns. It will be a long process so be prepared.

The story idea sounds like a great way to help her get in touch with her feelings. Just from the "tabby" story you can see that daughter sees her differences and wants to fit in with the other people around her. Not a bad thing but try directing a story so she can see that differences can also be accepted when they are understood.

Z's classmates may be an exceptional group of kids, but they know him and understand his unique behaviors and have come to my wife or myself and told us that he is "doing better this year". Kids are amazing creatures and adults all too often tend to underestimate there intelligence and level of understanding. Z tells me some of the kids in his class know about his dx bit he doesn't like talking about it, so he doesn't. Maybe something to consider when thinking about addressing your daughter's class. You are right this could do more harm than good, I'm not sure. I just asked him when thinking about this and he also said it might not be a bad idea, so I really haven't answered that question. Good luck with it.

One more thing , it's good to see more dads here taking an active role in their childrens' lives. Stick around, Wp is a good place to be.

Chris, I just noticed that you are in Ottawa Canada, I am in Hamilton, Usually I don't give advice like this, becuase people are in the states, but I have a little understanding of how our school system works, because certain things are provincial.

Your daughter needs an EA. Does she have one? All day, everyday that she is there. With the problems that she is having, I can't see how she possibly could not be entitled to one! Don't buy into their BS about how they don't have the funds or the blah blah blah, you push as hard as you can to get her an EA. I would also strongly push to get her transfered to another school next year, if not to a private school. I don't think she will get over that one. If it was a one time incident, and otherwise she was a normal friendly social little girl, then yes, she MAY be able to get over that, but as she is, constantly probably in the spotlight with odd behaviors, no way, I think you are right, she will be haunted by that forever. Kids don't forget.

She needs an EA, that is trained in Autism, or at least really working towards that, who can read her well enough to know when to remove her to calm her down, and set firm rules in the class that other kids are not to bug her or tease her.

I do not think coming in to anounce what her problems are (ie, autism) is a good idea at all. I think what needs to happen is a school official, like the VP or principle needs to come in and say "you are not allowed to tease her insult her, or treat her in any way that you yourself do not want to be treated, if you have a problem with her, see a teacher or myself, don't get mean with her". These kids need to know that she is not free game as far as bullying and tormenting go. They need to know too, that if they are bugged by something she is doing, they have someone else to go to about it, other then attacking her.

The fact she got that distressed, shows that something is really really wrong in that place. I can't help but think you need to get her out today (or on Tuesday when school is back in) I know it is hard on your wife, and I am not suggesting homeschooling, but I don't see how this is workable with so much still in the air, no real firm plans or accomidations made (if that is indeed the case). I pulled my son out for 3 weeks back in March when things came to a head with bullying and the school not moving on accomidations. It worked wonders, they understood I was serious about change, and was not going to just do what they say or buy their excuses anymore. We now have the best IEP we could hope for, and my son has the support of the VP who got the bullying under control. He does not need an EA for behavoir, so that was not a part of it, although he sure could have used one when he was younger, only we did not know he had AS at the time. I ended up pulling him out for 4 years, he only went back last September. I remember walking away from the school, thinking, "if you can't help him, then send him home, I can't do any worse, there is no point in torturing him anymore". I wish I had a label and could have gotten the help I needed in the system, I understand your wifes position, still though, sending her to a place that is ill equiped to handle her and damaging to her psychy is a horrible idea.

I worry with your daughter, that I private school would not be able to handle her, as they usually have small class sizes, but not one on one support. It really sounds like she needs that now.

Also, is she on any meds?

The one thing with your wife saying she is stressed, is what can you do to help more then you are now? Can you make some accomidations at work to let them know you are having a rough time with your daughter right now, and may need a few more phonecalls from home? Can you work alternate shifts? At home can you do more to help with the house, and send her out or go out yourself with your daughter to give her a break every day? Is there someone that she can go see for a weekend to get a break? I have found being able to trade off with my husband, a huge help.

I was just wondering too, how is she doing acedemically? Is this also something that on its own may be bringing her to the melting point? The noise level in the class and social aspect just sending her over a cliff?

I really think that you need to get to the bottom of what is causing her the most distress and work towards a prevention methodology in her IEP / With an EA. Maybe even just 1/2 days or a 4 day week too may help for now, this is not homeschooling, just part time school! My son did that when we where getting him into school after being out for four years. It was great for allowing him to transition. Now he has a fairly liberal attendance policy, if he really puts his heals in and does not want to go, I just call it in and he stays home for the morning or whole day. I trust his instincts much of the time in regards to wanting to stay home, be basically gets a card to pick one day a week where he can do this, I have learned from experiance that sending him off when he really does not want to go can just send him into overload, and then I am the one dealing with the aftermath at the end of the day!

Sometimes I make him go, and it is fine, it depends on the day, how many days off he has had, and if he can explain why he does not want to go, and if I think that he can "recover" from that reason just by being there.

Having a child on a less then 5 fully days schedual is not that unusual here! Especially when they are young, it is just too hard on them to put in 5 full days in a regular class!

Also, I am hesitent to suggest a segregated class, if they are available (I would think they should be in Ottawa) but I have known some kids that have greatly benifited from one. You just need to make sure that any class they suggest does actually look like it will help her, and not just "store her away" from the mainstream kids. If she is put into a class with kids who are worse off then her, that will not be a good thing!

I went to a private school in high school, and liked it. It provided the academic challenge I needed. I am a self-motivated, hard-working type and that environment was a good one for me. After the expulsion of a bully from my old public school enviornment, life became a lot better for me. I was treated as a person, with dignity, rather than as a psychological experiment. My only regret is that I didn't do it sooner. I was stupid not to transfer in seventh grade, instead of ninth. However, I'm glad I did.

Does not do at home. She feels very iscolated and doesnt comunicate feelings well but she said something about showing the kids what it was like to be grossed out or freaked out. Something to that effect but it was unclear. We have a meeting Tue morning but I am advocating to take her out for the year. Also looking at the option of private schools first thing next week. She was quite happy by the end of the 4 week period after we took her out of her last school as we felt the language issue was an added stress(french school). When she started she really liked it and it seemed like things were going to go well but after less than 2 months she is recognising how she is different more now than ever and the kids are starting to have some issues with her and she does not know how to handle it. She is unwilling to show weakness and unwilling to tell teachers if things dont go well (with other kids).

Last edited by Chris72 on 20 May 2007, 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[quote="EarthCalling"]I was just wondering too, how is she doing acedemically? Is this also something that on its own may be bringing her to the melting point? The noise level in the class and social aspect just sending her over a cliff?

She has an EA though not full time and the EA is NOT trained in autism and I dont think she will be able to help her. My daughter is a little behind academicaly but not much as she is really inteligent only she doesnt evr admit not knowing something so she will spend more effort pretending that she either doesnt want to do it or that she is misbehaving than to admit she doesnt know.

Its clear to me now after more reflection that I have to make a change. She has to decompress. I hopr there are private schools able to handle her without needing 1 on 1 every day. If so I am ready to go for it. My wife sees our psychologist wed, and will bring up all the issues metioned in this thread including private school recomendations. My parents agreed to pay half her tuition in a private school if that would help so it becomes a finacially viable solution for us now. I only hope that it will not end the same as this. I have to beleive that a smaller class, with more help available when needed that it will make enough of a difference.
Ill write more later tired now, its all we've (my wife and I) been talking about all week.
Not that it isnt always the most popular subject.
Thanks for your advice I value it as you seem to have a fair bit of experience and a unique perspective that I appreciate.

I know you love your daughter, that is very evident. I know you want what is best for her, that is very obvious too. I also know that you will stop at nothing to do what you need to for her to have the best life. The thing is, I really don't think you know how to do this, or what it is she needs.

I don't know what she needs either, I don't know you, I don't know her. But what I am hearing, is a very young girl, who is extremely distressed, and very out of touch with what is and is not socially acceptable. This is causing her more distress, and teaching her these life skills, is crucial for her well being, equally complicated though, is how?

Do you have social skills classes in Ottawa? I really think she could benefit from this.
I agree, she does need to decompress, any child that is doing the things she is, and threatening to harm herself or others, cannot be kept in the environment that she is in.

She needs a full time EA if she is to stay in a regular school. She cannot be denied that. You go to the highest official you can at the school board, you go to your local MPP if you have to, but she has a right to a full time EA, someone who can handle your daughter. Ottawa is big enough to have someone like this, if they don't they can hire someone! I would go into a meeting and tell them you are not leaving until you are told you can have one, if indeed you don't pull her right out. (of course, this school year is a write off, I am talking for next year unless you have her going to private school, this year I think it is best to keep her home)

She needs someone who is in the class all the time, perhaps not known to the other kids as "her EA" there are enough other kids in the class that need some support too academically that I am sure she could be kept really busy and it would not be obvious who she is there for. But your daughter has a right to not ever be found again naked dancing on tables in her own urine. It never ever ever should have gotten to that point. I still don't understand why your wife found her in that condition, surely a teacher or SOMEONE in that school could have ripped a damn curtain off a window and enshrouded her in it and tackled her if they had to! I don't give a damn about the "rules" in place against touching kids, she is a 6 year old girl letting her continue in that fashion is unacceptable, and you should be very angry about it!

Ontario is dumping a lot of money into training EA's to know how to work with autistic children, they can find someone, your daughter is entitled to it, and if they say she is not, you ask them how dancing on a table and threatening to kill herself and all her classmates is not urgent enough!

One thing I don't understand, and maybe it is just you are not thinking in this aggressive fashion, but I know if it was one of my kids, my husband would have been in that office the same day, if not 8:00 AM demanding to speak to the Principle, NOT waiting for the next IEP meeting, and our child would NOT have attended another day in that school until we where reasonably sure the school was on side with what our child needed. I know what it is like to be going through the "motions" and working the Vogon
Bureaucracy, but there are certain things that are a stop and drop everything, a "do not pass go" until things happen. This and the suicidal / homicidal threats are examples of those things! You DO NOT NEED a meeting scheduled to talk to a principle, that should happen at any time there is a crisis. It is by getting things quickly dealt with that you prevent escalations.

Your daughter will not self advocate, that is a very common problem in aspie children. My son could not at 6, only now at 12 is he starting to! That said, she needs daily coaching and you need daily feedback from the school. The teachers see things, they know things, they need to be actively helping her and communicating with you. They NEED to be running interference. Now you may like them very much, and they may talk a good talk, but the fact she is in so much pain, means that somewhere along the way, the ball is getting dropped.

I would find out if there is somewhere that she can go for recess where she can have some "down time". With an EA she should be able to be escorted out of the class if she is about to have a melt down. She will have a set of eyes, that even if the person is away from her, will be on her anticipating that she needs some sort of help in socializing or a break from the class.

I think a private school may work, and I don't know her, maybe in the right environment she does not need a full time EA, maybe the right teacher can help her on their own. It sounds like there is a great school in Belleville, but this is too far away unfortunately. I will keep my fingers crossed that you find the right place. However I would be very upfront about what exactly your concerns with your daughter are and make sure the school is going into this knowing what potential problems may occur, you don't want to find yourself in a position where the school is saying that they are in over their heads or can't deal with her anymore.

I would also find out if Ottawa has an ASD clinic, I don't doubt you feel like she has been seen by every professional known to man, and that you have talked until you are blue in the face, but if you have not been to an ASD clinic, that too may be an idea.

I may be misreading you, but it seems that your family has been somewhat passive with many of the people you are dealing with (ie the school). I think that you really need to get in the faces of some people and demand help.

However, giving her the next 5 weeks or so until school is out, probably is the best idea of all!

One final thing, I belong to an Ontario Autsim group. They don't seem to be really good at the "support chat" like here, but you will get all the provincial government news relating to autism rights, and schools.

There is a new PPM 140, which is outlining ABA therapy in schools. May be of interest to you;

Anyway, the website is here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AutismOntario/

Most of the parents have severe Auties, so you need to tread a little carefully in complaining about your "problems" as a lot seem to have the attitude of "if your child can speak, and does not wash the walls in feaces every day, I don't want to hear from you!" But, the bulletins and activisim updates are really good!

[quote="EarthCalling"]
and you should be very angry about it!

Am very.

We are far from passive beleive me. We are tireless advocates for our daughter and dont take no for an answer. You must have us confused with some other people that are this way.
uNFORTUNATELY i HAVE A HABIT OF WRITING ONLY ABOUT THE MOST CONFUSING ASPECTS ABOUT WHATS GOING ON AND NOT NECCESARILY WHAT WE ARE DOING ABOUT IT. (Sorry unintentional caps lock)
As for my daughter's language, when she gets mad that I want her to clean up her toys before her next activity I can sometimes get "I hate you I wish you were not my dad, you are mean you are a bad father, I dont want to live with you!" Followed by "I'm sorry dad you are a good dad" about 5 min later.
So that needs to be taken into account.
She says things like "Im gonna poke your eyes out and prut(fart) in your face and prut down you nose and .... I say thats not very nice and she looks at me like Im stupid and says "I'm only joking dad." "Its just a joke" ...... You just have to know her to get it.
She is extreme in every way including extremely beautiful.
Hard to understand through text sometimes.

Something about that incident on the desk at school sounds unlike anything I can imagine a young kid on the spectrum would do. I see a person with asperger's taking off their clothes because of sensory issues and maybe having an accident in their pants due to anxiety but intentionally taking off their clothes, getting on a desk and urinating for the purpose of wanting to gross out her peers sounds too socially aware or something, manipulative maybe. I can't quite put my finger on it. I would think it would be almost impossible for her to recover from that incident, though. Hope you find a solution.

Are you sure she just hasn't had enough and this was her way of acting out to the extreme so that she wouldn't have to go back to school? You must also remember that there are many other conditions that are comorbid with asperger's and autism. We are trying now to figure out if the symptoms my son suffers with are all asperger's or a combination of different disorders (social phobia,bipolar)with asperger's as his primary dx. You may very well be dealing with more than one condition and will need to treat each. I am by no means sure, I just wanted to share my thoughts. I feel for you and your daughter and hope that you can get the help she needs.