Can children with Aspergers still lie / manipulate?

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Yes, we are humans. We're not automatons, or exemplars of perfection.

The best thing a person can do is acknowledge weaknesses (and acknowledge strengths, too). And work from there.

Thanks for the responses! Just to clarify, it is not that I think people with Aspergers are perfect, I had just read on many websites (you know those lists of Aspergers symptoms that may or may not be accurate) that people with Aspergers can't really lie/manipulate. I actually also read a website once that said people with Aspergers are always well intentioned. I guess this was referring to mistakes in social areas...but not necessarily to the fact that they are literally always well intentioned. So this clarifications helps.

I guess sometimes my son will do all three sometimes then: honestly making social mistakes/manipulating or trying to get his way / being a "smart alec"

Here is an example of something that happened recently:
1. He has been told during school time he needs to stay near the homeschool table, while I go to the office to switch books.
2. He follows me inside the office when I go to switch book.
3. Me: "Remember you're not supposed to follow the teacher around." (Sometimes I refer to myself as "the teacher" to help him understand a rule better or kind of joking around...but not often.")
4. I start leaving the room and he just stays inside.
5. Me: "What are you doing? Why are you standing there? Come on, leave the room."
6. Him: "You said not to follow you."
7. Me: "When someone says that, they mean to leave the room and go back to what you were doing, not to stay in the room you weren't supposed to be in."
8. Him: "Hmm, interesting"

So he was taking me literally, .not following me by staying in the room when he shouldn't have been there. OR he was playing me and he was being a "smart alec." I wish I knew!

Things like this happen somewhat often and my husband and I can't always tell if he serious or "playing us." But it could be both?

I'm afraid so; there really is no way for us to know for sure.


His behaviour is consistent with the kind of literalness which is often associated with autism, but just calling it "literalness" can be a bit deceptive. For example, I understand figures of speech and metaphors pretty well, in fact, they rather fascinate me and I "collect" them. When I see "raining cats and dogs", my brain has no trouble recognising that bunch of words as a single concept that isn't what the individual words literally mean, almost as if it's just one long word. I understand what linguists call the "semantics" of those phrases.

However, I can still be caught out by being asked "can you do X?"; I still often answer the question "do you have the ability to do X?" and forget that it's a polite way to say "please would you do X". This is known as the "pragmatics" of language; the ways that words change their meaning according to the intentions of the speaker. My ability to spot another person's intent isn't so good, though I can often work it out if I put my mind to it for a while; but if I'm particularly rushed, or stressed out, or my mind is focused on something else at the time, it's easy for me to miss the signs and I'll just give whatever answer comes immediately to mind; I sometimes barely register that I have even answered at all (that kind of inattention could be why he didn't follow the rule in the first place, too - could be!)

I'd say to keep doing just as you did there; when he misunderstands, ask him what he understood you to mean, and explain to him as clearly as you can how and why it differs from what you intended. If these corrections aren't really necessary because he's being a "smart alec", he'll tire of them soon enough, I imagine. The "hmm, interesting" made me smile, it's one of my favourite exclamations when I've just discovered something new that clarifies the world a little - I say it rather a lot!

More likely than not, at his age, the problem is that he is taking you literally. You were not speaking precisely, and the joking around you were doing probably confused him. As his data base gets larger he will be more able to understand what you mean, but he is still really young and you have to assume that he does not. You need to learn to speak PRECISELY.

"We are done with this lesson, so you can leave this room now, but remember not to follow me into the office."

The one I used most often with my son:

"Did you wash your hands JUST NOW?"

Speaking PRECISELY will make a HUGE difference in how he follows instructions. The proof that he needed it will be in just how much you nearly instantly notice that difference.

Will he eventually discover that he can play off that understanding to pretend to follow you precisely even when he knows exactly what you meant? Probably. But my extremely bright son, considered only lightly affected by his ASD, didn't do that until he was older (at least 9 or 10, if I recall correctly). Even then, he still needed precise language for most things, and on the few he knew how to play he isn't a great liar, so I could usually see it in his eyes. By then we were more likely to take it as a joke and both laugh (much more effective than getting mad).

Better safe than sorry. Speak precisely until he has PROVEN he can understand the banter for EACH situation (that is the other frustrating thing; ASD children can't extrapolate from one situation to another, even when they seem similar to us).

ASD is a spectrum so there are going to be levels in all this, but when deciding which way to err, think about what is worse: a child playing you on occasion, or a child growing up unable to trust because you assume negative motives when he is honestly and truly confused? I've seen a lot of the disastrous fall out from the later on these boards so I think the answer is clear: it isn't that big a deal if your child plays you on occasion. Don't let the world of NT parenting overcome your child's needs; we get to turn everything upside down when we're raising ASD kids, and realizing that worked wonders for our family. My son is now an amazing, honest, trustworthy, helpful and HAPPY adult.

When kids don't know how to communicate, their actions may seem manipulative. Fear of parent's reaction tends to foster manipulation on the youngster's part. I personally feel that your child is too young for a diagnosis. Education should be streamlined to your child's symptoms. Concentrate on your own child's symptoms. Don't read too much into the diagnostic label. Focus on his individuality. He is very young. Give him all the love you can no matter what his reaction is. Don't read too much into his behavior unless it is serious. If you get dragged into all the data you will go mad. One day at a time.

This is great sharing here! Another aspect to consider is the simple fact that many times an Aspie does not think about things the same way you or I or "regular" people think. For instance, I remember when my Aspie was like 7 or 8.... she informed me that she didn't have to drink water anymore because apple juice was like medicine and that's all you'd need to drink. I remember blinking a few times when I heard that and then I had to break down where it was coming from... at first glance, it might look like some manipulative fibbing is occuring so that she can have apple juice with dinner instead of water... but in reality, they had watched Johnny Appleseed during class and somehow the message came across her brain that apple juice being healthy was an absolute. And since it was an absolute, everything else wasn't necessary.

Then there was the time that she was convinced that dragons were real because someone showed her a video that they were real and she would adamantly argue if anyone implied she was "making it up".

These are two of the more obvious examples, but over the years, there were plenty of times that it was really the perspective and belief of my Aspie that conflicted with my expectations. Now, with that all said, yes, of course an Aspie can lie and can manipulate The motives might be different, their skill at doing it might be different... but anyone can tell a fib