Need your opinon please

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My 7 y/o son has been tested by the public school system and pushed up a grade. The speech path and the school psychologist had a disagreement on their observations regarding my son. The speech path said he socialized and interacted very well with other children. The school psychologist said he did not interact well and made poor eye contact with her. Because of this disagreement, they wanted me to have a independent evaluation. They wanted to know if he has Aspergers. They also said they would only recognize a diagnoses from a pediatric neurologist.

I set up an appointment with a pediatric neurologist in Boston at the children's hospital. After the exam she tells me, she's not qualified to diagnose Aspergers, that I need to see a pediatric neurolicial psychologist. Needless to say, I'm not happy with all of this. I called the school when I returned home from the hospital. The school was shocked by this. So now, I'm back at square one. I have a meeting tomorrow morning with the school to determine what direction to take next.

My main concern is, I don't think he has Aspergers. I'm not in denial all of this has been brought to my attention 11 months ago. I have read as much as I can about Aspergers. He does have a few of the characteristics, but the characteristics he presents with also overlap into giftedness.

I though I would ask you guys to give me a hand in this.

Do your children show emotions for others?? Example, he will cry if his bother cries. He becomes elated when his bother reaches a new level in a game and congratulates him profusely. He does his best to protect his bother from getting into trouble with us. He will even lie to keep his bother out of trouble. He finds beauty in nature. He is very compassionate towards animals.

He is strong willed, argumentative, and his feels get hurt very easily.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

I feel the school is pushing a little too hard on this. I feel they have another agenda, that all of this testing is no longer about helping my son. As you can tell, I'm very frustrated.

Thanks for reading.

I think we need more details. What other AS/ markedly not AS traits does he have? I know that I need more information before I can post an opion, and I'd guess that it's the same for some others as well.

I am far from a professional. So take whatever I say with a grain of salt. I think you should get whatever recommended testing that you can afford.. understanding your child's needs are important. Kids bounce back from parents mistakes pretty well, but as parents we need to learn from our mistakes. Before my son was tested, I tried too many wrong things to make him more like other kids. But my son is not like other kids, he is unique...just like everyone else. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. The earlier you find out what they are, the better.

Many Asperger children are gifted.. my son is a perfectionist (obsessively at times) and a very logical thinker. I have a hard time beating him at chess and he is only 12 (I was a member of the chess club in HS and College)

My son, who has AS, is exactly like this. He is his sister's cheerleader, defender, and protector. The simple things bring him the most pleasure and he is a wonderful "daddy" to his stuffed puppies. He is also strong willed and sensitive.

I think the idea that Aspies aren't empathetic is one of the greatest misconceptions about Asperger's. It is true that some may have difficulties with empathy, but certainly not all. When my son was diagnosed, the first reaction that I got from family was "But he always seems to care about other people." Caring and relating are two totally different things.

I would be completely frustrated with the children's hospital and it is always a good idea to question your school's motives. I would seek out an official evaluation by a pediatric neurological psychologist because I'm a firm believer in "when in doubt, check it out." If you're uncomfortable with your son being pushed up a grade, then you should go with your gut and fight the school. You know your child best and don't let anyone tell you different. Best of luck!

This may not answer your question, but I think it is worth mentioning.

Terms like Asperger syndrome do not accurately describe anybody. I can assure you that I myself am weird, at least weird enough that I do not fit into typical society the way most people do. But yet trying to describe me with labels would be an exercise in futility. I can not be accurately described as having autism, or having AS, or being normal, or anything like that because I am simply too complicated to be stuffed into a yes or no check box.

Likewise, everybody else in the world (including your son) can not be accurately described with just one label. Trying to determine whether or not your son has asperger's syndrome is like trying to draw a line where the ocean ends and the beach starts. The ocean edge is constantly changing due to waves, tides, erosion, etc. Likewise trying to pin down something as complex as a human's personality with discreet little terms wont work.

So, does your son have asperger's syndrome? Maybe, maybe not. The diagnostic criteria is incredibly vague and open to interpretation by the diagnosing doctor. Some people might say yes, others might say no, it really depends on what the diagnosing doctor's criteria is, and how he perceives your son.

What is important here is not what label your son receives, but what you do with this information. If you read about asperger's syndrome, and it helps you to be a better parent, and allow your son to have a more enjoyable and productive life, then who cares what he is labeled with. If getting your son a label helps him out with school then I would say go for it. If getting the label wont help him in school, then dont bother.

Whatever tests you do and labels you get wont change who your son is. He is still the same person no matter what words are written down on his file. So dont worry too much about what those words say. Just try to learn as much as you can about your son, and do what you can to make sure the school treats him right and gives him a good education. If getting a label helps, then go for it, otherwise, dont bother.

As for your school pushing for your son to get labeled, odds are you are stuck in a bureaucratic mess. One person says yes for AS, the other person says no. If the school doesnt label him, then they can get sued for not providing services and failing to meet regulations (which they want to avoid). If the school does label him and give him extra help then it will cost them more, and result in more work for the teachers (which they want to avoid). So rather then making a decision themselves and risk being wrong, they are passing the buck to you. Most likely your school is more interested in avoiding being sued then actually helping your son.

You say you are frustrated with the school. I more than understand - I am frustrated just reading about their insistence on this testing. Perhaps the school gets extra funding for "special needs" kids, and they are the ones who would benefit from your son having this label.

I understand the need for testing kids when they are having serious problems, but I think labeling kids with a "disorder" when it is not necessary can eventually be harmful to their self-esteem. I am autistic, not stereotypical AS, but I went through school before diagnoses were made and am so glad I did, because I never once thought anything was "wrong" with me. My advice is that you do everything possible to keep your son's confidence high, and if all goes reasonably well discuss this with him sometime after puberty. Of course, if he NEEDS intervention, get testing done sooner.

Honestly, what difference does a label make?

There are some great observations, above, and I totally agree with what Tracker and number5 wrote. AS kids do have emotion, empathy, and much more; although they will often show it differently or (to those concerned with social convention) inappropriately. What they don't have is the ability to read and follow social cues in a natural or instinctive way, they can have issues with theory of mind (basically, the assumption that others know or should know or are experiencing what you know or are experiencing), and they tend to have severe deficits in some areas, with extreme gifts in others. But diagnosis only matters if the child is experiencing a gap between perceived ability and actual performance at school or in life, or is facing issues of personal confusion that are causing social or interaction problems. Diagnosis was, in our case, a blessed answer to things that were confounding us. But if you aren't looking for an answer, do you need the diagnosis?

Note that it can be difficult to see AS in a child this age if they are very high functioning, as it seems like yours is. It would become more apparent, however, by the time he is 3-4-5 grade. Deciding today that you don't need a diagnosis, should you make that decision, wouldn't mean you couldn't pursue it in a year or two if more issues and questions arise.

A'ight, brace yourself for another strong and totally credential free opinion based upon my whole life along with recent work with my own children, their school, and a danged good psychologist who specializes in working with public schools.

The school has their reasons, none of which, I suspect, have anything to do with good sense or the good of the child. The psych only noticed these traits in one interview, didn't she? My son's write-up (for difficult behavior instead of his brilliance, I'm sorry to say) said the psychologist watched him in class for a whopping 45 minutes as part of her evaluation. It's typical.

You know you don't need a diagnosis for a child who doesn't have a problem. It's ridiculous. My son keeps running away from his class. You tell me where a little reluctance compares to that. Your kid's school doesn't know how good they've got it.

The poor eye contact with the psychologist could easily be chalked down to a lack of rapport. The mistake I've seen in too many school psychologists (in that I've just seen too many of them, period) is that they never consider the possibility that they're just not very likable people. Sometimes we have to face the hard realities and do a little inner searching, but I suppose I could see why they might not want to consider that they're just annoying people that kids don't like to talk to. But strictly speaking, it's their job to learn how to listen in a way that will get a kid to open up.

I guess you have two choices. If there are no other problems behaviorally or academically (that you did not mention) that might make you feel obligated to prove your son is simply acting a certain way because he's just himself (a thing that schools find terribly inconvenient), well, then, you either refuse to get a diagnosis stating that you see no reason for it (the stuff you listed is in my opinion not even close to being enough reason to label a child), or you make nice and find a neuropsychologist and get the tests done to keep the school happy, which can have its advantages, I won't lie. I don't have much concern that they'll find any problems in light of his giftedness, provided they are competent and aren't trigger happy about the Asperger's diagnosis. I think there are too many of us who tend to want to lay claim to gifted people to help show that Asperger's doesn't equal lower brain function. Dang straight, it most certainly does not. But that and a little social hiccup shouldn't be the only factors.

Giftedness can be enough to make a person eccentric, to say the least. I am undiagnosed, here because I have traits which are in line with Asperger's and fall under no other category so well, unless it's a generic "eccentric" heading. I was in gifted class but had a LOT more problems, socially and behaviorally, and still do. If they had regarded my whole gifted class as having something, well, it would have been ridiculous. I was the kid with problems, and that's a unique perspective... it's pretty clear from the outside who is still on the inside. The other students were different, yeah. And they were fine. Some kids even tested high enough to be in the class and opted out. They could see how much baggage comes just with being gifted alone, sometimes. It's a shame they let it scare them away.

I know I'm getting too wordy but I did a quick search and found an srticle on the subject. Yes, a quick search because this discussion is as hot as the AS vs ADHD debate, and there's a lot of info on it. The article I found I urge you to read, and seek more, because this contains a few lines that leaped out at me:

"Highly gifted children may have advanced vocabularies that may in some cases limit their ability to socialize with age peers; however, these same children may do just fine when paired with older students or other children of similar intellectual ability." (So I'm guessing that the school psychologist didn't quite meet his standard.)

and

"Gifted children are often more emotionally sensitive than same-age peers and will respond intensely to the emotions of the children around them."

and

"Since it is possible for a child to be both highly gifted and on the autism spectrum, however, it is important that a student who may be twice exceptional to be tested by a competent team including a developmental pediatrician, an occupational therapist, an educational psychologist and the child's parents. Armed with a complete developmental history and a clear report of the student's strengths and weaknesses, the team should then be able to create an appropriate Individual Educational Plan.

Since teachers are rarely trained in diagnosis of spectrum disorders, it is never appropriate for an educator or school counselor to make a diagnosis."

Read more: http://giftededucation.suite101.com/art ... z0RIBEP7Pr

Thank you everyone!! I appreciate all the replies.

I will try to give you a better picture of my son. The reason all of this is in question, is because of his behavior at school. I requested to sit in his class for a day last year to see for myself, but the school wouldn't allow it. They did accommodate me by placing a camcorder in class. I have to say to my astonishment, I was appalled at what I saw on the video. He was very upset about something that happened early in the morning before class started. He was supposed to get out of his winter gear and put it away. He stood next to his desk and had a temper tantrum, slamming stuff around and being disruptive. After he calmed himself down he rejoined the rest of the class and continued with the class routine. From what the teacher says, this is frequent behavior. I am so puzzled over this. He does not act like this at home, it's simply would not be acceptable.

He did not like the school psychologist and refused to answer her questions. Did I mention he's strong willed? The faculty at the school feels he is gifted, but he scored 127 on the IQ, because he refused to participate. Thank goodness the psychologist put the participation part in the report. He did very well on all the academics tests. All levels were 98% to 99.6%. He is also very artistic. He loves to draw.

We went to the meeting with the school today. I still can't make up my mind, if I want him to be tested again for Aspergers. On one hand, I'm so afraid someone is going to misdiagnose him. On the other hand, if he does have it, I want to be able to give him the support he needs.

On the bright side, the school will be giving him accelerated work. Maybe he wont be board this year. Boardum was a big problem last year. Also the teacher he has this year is a great fit. Last years teacher was too young and inexperienced. He has been trying his old tricks from last year and this years teacher has been putting him in his place. I guess time will tell.

Thank you again for all your input. I enjoyed reading everyone's opinion.

Just as an aside really, I have found myself quite frustrated with a succession of therapists who become quickly enamoured of my son's intellect and want to spend the sessions playing chess and having smart exchanges with him rather than spend a few uncomfortable moments working with us about how to allow him to keep from melting down and destroying things 3 times a week.

"Yes, he's smart, but he doesn't need help with that part!" Arrgh!

I would like to know what your child has to say about his behavior at school. He is a smart child; have you talked to him about it? Start out very open minded, be sure that he knows you are looking for his thoughts on it, and won't judge him on those thoughts regardless of what he tells you. It can take a while to find the real issue, but that is where your start: what he is seeing, what is he feeling?

I would like to know what your child has to say about his behavior at school. He is a smart child; have you talked to him about it? Start out very open minded, be sure that he knows you are looking for his thoughts on it, and won't judge him on those thoughts regardless of what he tells you. It can take a while to find the real issue, but that is where you start: what he is seeing, what is he feeling?

Funny, I had this discussion with him last night. For one, being disruptive got him out doing some work he didn't want to do in class. It also gave him the option to leave the class room. I asked him what he thought of his teacher this year and if he thought he would be able to get away with it in her class. He thought for some time and finally said "no, I don't think it's going to happen. She's really strict" He also likes his teacher this year. He didn't like last years teacher.

Today when he came home from school, I asked how the day went. He had an awesome day. He's learning rapidly, that he's not going to get away with it any more, and he's having better days.

I think my son has finally met his match, and he now knows it.

The best part is, I know this teacher from last year, my other son had her last year. So we already have a good re pore. Plus, I warned her before hand.

It's a little difficult for him as well. His highs are super high, but his lows are super low. He is a very intense child, even his teacher recognizes that after 2 weeks of school.

Since you've asked for opinions, here are some of mine:

1. Its a diagnosis, not a label. A diagnosis is something a medical doctor makes in order to recommend treatment.
2. AS and ASDs fall on a spectrum with overlapping symptoms and characteristics, therefore there is no "proper" diagnosis and the specialists will disagree. Learned this first-hand.
3. The best place to get a diagnosis for your child is from your trusted pediatrician. If you don't like the advice you're getting from your pediatrician, switch doctors.
4. I view my son's diagnosis as a tool to get him academic support and other services. Because of his diagnosis, we have an IEP with strong accomodations. I selected AS as opposed to PDD-NOS because there is a lot of information and resources regarding AS, but very little regarding PDD-NOS. This is especially important in educating my son about his diagnosis.
5. The diagnosis is also a tool that allows me to focus my information gathering. Without this focus, there is an overwhelmining amount of information to sift through.
6. Assume all school personnel are overworked and underpaid, and that they have to cover their butts in every decision they make.
7. The school must honor a diagnosis made by a licensed MD. The school's statement that "they would only recognize a diagnoses from a pediatric neurologist" seems bogus to me...the school would take on huge risk and liability if they ignore a diagnosis from your pediatrician.
8. My son is very empathetic and caring, he is just not able to communicate it that well. And sometimes, he communicates very poorly and appears to be unempathetic.

Hope this helps.

Thank you DenvrDave. My husband and I talked about it in great detail. We have decided to have him tested, but not with a pediatric neurologist. We want to be on the safe side, if he has it we want to give him the help and support he needs.