I just don't know how to react

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OK, my bf's son recently got diagnosed with AS (I was suspicious for quite some time). I want to give you some background and get some feedback.

*He is obsessed with hockey. He plays it all the time and it's the only thing he wants to talk about.

*He does not initiate conversation and barely says anything in response to questions.

*He is completely unaffectionate- no hugs, no sitting close, no nothing

*He does not take an interest in anything else that anyone does. He has no interest in watching the other 2 kids doing what they love- soccer, football, dance

Here is my problem. I read these boards and I keep reading that people with AS really don't want to have small talk. They really don't feel for other people or get interested in what makes other people happy. So by reading that, is it worth it to even try to talk to him? I don't want to annoy him.

I feel its very important for people to take an interest in other people's joys. If he isn't capable, I don't want to fight that. The other 2 kids in the house get tired of having to act excited for him, when he doesn't reciprocate. I want everyone to be fulfilled and happy.

So what can I do? Talk to him, even if he doesn't want to? Hug him, even though its very awkward? Asking him what he wants only gets once response: "I don't know."

Anything you can offer up as advice or experience?

It's not worth while talking to him unless you have something to say. If you have something important to say - "we're selling the house and moving, any thoughts on what city we should move to?" - yes, talk to him. But don't talk to him just to make small talk.


I think it's very important for parents to take an interest in their children's joys. I don't think it's realistic to expect children to take an interest in parents' joys. It may be nice for children to take an interest in their siblings' activities, but I think we should expect them to focus more on their own activities. Living through others isn't generally healthy.


Hug him occasionally - maybe a couple times a day - but don't necessarily expect him to reciprocate.

Hockey is good. Could be worse.

Hugging teenagers when they don't want to be hugged and getting emotionally zapped is universal phenomenon. Also read somewhere all T's are wired up to be selfish and not see anyone else's point of view.

Eventually they get BF/ GF and begin to create less egocentric model of world.( Think it's when they discover sex/love together.)

Still bring washing home, eat your food, run out of cash , lie in bed, lie in bath , scatter clothing /wet towels -though less dispersed, come in late and clatter in kitchen etc.

Seem happy enough though.

What is actual point, if any , of small talk? It sounds like blabbering most of time, and when you try to reciprocate NT blabber you often get consequences more negative than not making small talk. Might be a survival thing. One near NT neighbor of mine, very good small talker, hated me on sight, and all my attempts at scripted small talk with him totally failed. Very angry man-has had heart attack now. Who is best suited to survive this world?

Well, here is an example. When the other 2 get home, we talk about their days, what happened at school, what was good, what wasn't, etc. Since they are away from home for so many hours, I like to be involved in what they do at school all day. That doesn't seem possible.

It also feels strange to talk to the other 2 so much and "leave him out." Maybe he doesn't feel like that, but I feel like he is being left out.

I don't think it's realistic to expect children to take an interest in parents' joys. It may be nice for children to take an interest in their siblings' activities, but I think we should expect them to focus more on their own activities.

Well, with the other 2, they are happy with the other one does something great-- wins a competition, makes an awesome play, etc. He wants people to be excited when his hockey team does well and wants to talk about it, but has no interest in hearing about what the other 2 do in regard to their hobbies. Is this normal? I guess I don't know. I don't want to force him into stuff that he is incapable of doing, but how can I expect the other 2 to take interest in his activities if he can't reciprocate? Does that make sense?

Not at all unusual. At least you know how to get him to talk about something.



It's important to know that silence on the part of an autistic does not mean that they are entirely disengaged, or so withdrawn from the dialogue that they're not listening. Most of the time it means only that we just don't have anything to say that seems worth saying aloud - often because we don't feel our opinions really matter to the other conversants.

Sometimes we're not sure if what we say will be appropriate in the context - remember that socializing is always awkward for us, and sometimes it's just hard to know when it's appropriate to interject a thought - the rhythm of conversation is a foreign dance to us - or whether what we say may sound stupid or out of place. Nothing teaches you to keep your mouth shut like those awkward conversational pauses and looks of disapproval. Well, there is one other thing, and its the biggie - what really teaches you to keep mum is the brutal realization over time that anything you do say is likely to be misinterpreted in ways that you can't foresee and rapidly devolve into an argument you can't win or an angry lecture about just how completely wrong you are to think that way. Seriously, this is an everyday occurrence in the life of an Aspie. Its our first major life lesson: STFU, or else.




Concur with the chorus here. We're not prone to giving hugs, because it's awkward - we never know when that social moment is right. Plus, it seems alien and somehow 'wrong' to assume that much of someone else's personal space. Social hugging is just incomprehensible. That does not mean, on the other hand, that we don't need or appreciate the occasional hug as a demonstration of affection. Everybody needs to feel loved. We just don't know how to help other people feel loved. By that I mean, we know how (in theory) - we know what the methods are, we just don't know how to implement those methods correctly. See Sheldon on Big Bang Theory for visual demonstrations of just how awkward these moments are for us.



Yeah? So?

Sorry if that seems glib, but this is how we get the reputation of being robotic and unemotional. In some respects we can be very much so. I can't really explain nor defend this, it simply is a part of the hardwired Aspie mindset. We are every bit as puzzled by the NT 'obsession' with what others are doing. Personally, if I lived to a thousand, I will never comprehend the appeal of reality television or spectator sports. If it doesn't directly involve ME, why the hell should I care? Not to be egocentric, I just have a very strong sense of minding my own damn business.

Playing a sport is one thing, if that's what gives one pleasure and excitement, but to waste time sitting idly by and merely observing as others play - WHY. for gods' sakes? Unless there's some technique to be learned for self-improvement, it's just letting minutes of your life go by for no reason. And I'm quite happy that you're excited by your own accomplishments, good for you - but if you expect me to jump up and down and high five you - well, there's that awkward social rhythm again. Besides, it just looks silly, and we spend enough of our lives looking weird.



I understand how that can be frustrating. I sincerely wish we had a manual we could hand out that explained how to know what's the right thing to do when, but the truth is, we often don't know ourselves, until we're already in the moment and doing the wrong thing. You don't want to stop talking to him, that would make him feel despised and worthless. If he's really not in the mood to interact, he'll seek out space of his own and withdraw - and its important that he be able to do that. Interacting with other people takes so much concentration for us, that we need time to decompress and come down from the tension, or we become impossibly disagreeable and eventually melt down.

I don't know if this will mean anything to you at all, but here's a real-life analogy: When a person decides to get an elaborate tattoo, that's certainly a proactive choice - you know going in that's it's going to involve a significant degree of discomfort, but you make that choice because it has value to you. After the first few minutes, the brain starts to release endorphins and the discomfort becomes minimal - you may be able to endure the discomfort for three or four hours or more, and it's okay because you're getting something you value out of the process. Once it's all finished and you get up from that chair, it hits you like the proverbial ton o'bricks - you're physically exhausted, even though you've been sitting still the whole time. That's because that entire time, every muscle in your body has been partially contracted as you unconsciously steeled yourself against that constant pricking pain. Most people just go have a beer and put their feet up, some may go home and collapse in bed and sleep for eighteen hours. Socializing has a similar effect on us - we're tense the entire time, even though a lot of that is only partially conscious, so when it's over, we just gotta seek solitude and relax.

That's why small talk is kind of irritating - it's just usually more effort than it's worth. All that strenuous verbal dancing over the weather or a television show? Puh-leeze. But that doesn't mean we want to be ignored. If we really don't want to talk to you, we'll just go somewhere you aren't.

Speaking of knowing when to talk and when to SHUT UP, aren't you glad I'm late for a lunch date now? Gotta Jet!

Last edited by Willard on 02 Apr 2010, 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Please note, we actually make small talk here.

Yeah? So?

Sorry if that seems glib, but this is how we get the reputation of being robotic and unemotional. In some respects we can be very much so. I can't really explain nor defend this, it simply is a part of the hardwired Aspie mindset. We are every bit as puzzled by the NT 'obsession' with what others are doing. Personally, if I lived to a thousand, I will never comprehend the appeal of reality television or spectator sports. If it doesn't directly involve ME, why the hell should I care? Not to be egocentric, I just have a very strong sense of minding my own damn business.

Playing a sport is one thing, if that's what gives one pleasure and excitement, but to waste time sitting idly by and merely observing as others play - WHY. for gods' sakes? Unless there's some technique to be learned for self-improvement, it's just letting minutes of your life go by for no reason. And I'm quite happy that you're excited by your own accomplishments, good for you - but if you expect me to jump up and down and high five you - well, there's that awkward social rhythm again. Besides, it just looks silly, and we spend enough of our lives looking weird.

I appreciate the bluntness of this. Where I get confused, however is right here: WHY in the world would we then be expected to hear about his hockey and expected to get excited about it? If there is no point to getting excited about someone else's accomplishments, how can one expect someone to get excited about their own? I am not at all trying to be argumentative, but I just can't quite grasp that.

There are 2 other kids in the house who also don't understand this (and I would like to be able to explain it to them so they don't get resentful). Is it impossible or unimportant to teach a child with AS to share in the excitement of others or don't expect it in return? As adults, we can share in the excitement of children without needing the reciprocation-- but I don't think children are capable of that level of maturity. That's what scares me. If he isn't expected to change his actions (because he doesn't see a point in being happy for someone else), how can I expect the other 2 to change their actions (not having interest in him, because he shows nothing for anyone else)?

Hi Michelle, what I've come to learn is that many people on the spectrum do not or cannot "put themselves in another's shoes" and do not or cannot even understand that other peoples' minds are different than their own. This is called theory of mind (TOM), you can read about it on Wikipedia. One adult I've corresponded with said it took her 40 years to realize that other people have minds of their own. So it may be just as confusing for the child to understand how in the world anybody else could possibly NOT share their own special interest.

As far as socializing in the home, we frequently have "family meetings" where everyone gets 5 mins to talk uninterupted about whatever they want. The purpose of these meetings is to discuss ways to make the home a happier place. The message to the children is, "everyone living here has responsibilities, and one responsibility is to help make the home a happier place." This has definitely made our home happier, and it has also helped our son learn social skills and has helped him take an interest in other people. Best of luck!

Why in the world could we possibly be excited about your blabberings when there is HOCKEY!

Dontcha get this?

No, I can't quite grasp it. I do my best to accept it, but still need to learn how to react to it when there are other children in the house.

Imagine the best film or play you have ever seen in your life . When it ends and the credits come up you kind of feel satisfied and want move onto something else . ( I'm married to an NT) . Some of us, me included, could watch that over and over and over without feeling the need to move on. I can watch clips of my favorite stuff tens twenties of times and still feel like I was seeing it for maybe not the first but second time. We just don't get why you wouldn't want to do this and get bored . Maybe same with hockey.

Yes, my son has trouble accepting that there is a quid-pro-quo (if I spelled that anywhere near right), where-in he is supposed to show interest in his sister's accomplishments in exchange for her showing interest in his.

The thing is, she feels genuine excitement for him, and his being interested in something can spark an interest in the same in her. But the reverse never happens. When they were younger, my daughter didn't really notice and he got away with it. But, now, she does, and it is creating problems.

I am attempting to teach him to act it. I've told him it is the socially required response and if he wants people to take interest in what he likes, he has to take interest in what they like. It's similar going to the store to buy something: you've got to bring the right currency, or they feel ripped off. I accept that he doesn't feel what we feel, but that doesn't change the expectation.

Now, here is where it gets complicated: to him, that is lying. He feels I am asking him to lie. So I'm splitting hairs on trying to teach him enough to be able to give a decent response while not feeling the response is a lie. I don't want him to do something feeling it is a lie, or he will give up on the concept of truth forever (some AS do, because social rules like this make them feel the whole world lies all the time so why try).

LOL, we're kind of stuck on it right now.

Yes, this is exactly it. It's so HARD! OTOH, I am trying to explain to the other 2 that they need to be patient and still act in a way that is appropriate.

memesplice- I can get that, but I could accept someone who wants to watch it over and over. What I don't understand is why the reverse isn't true?

DenvrDad- I appreciate your experiences. I would love to try something like that. What happens if one won't talk though? That's really the difficulty I have. The AS boy won't talk at all.

Its a long term process. There have been plenty of times when one son or the other has said "I have nothing to contribute." But in time, both kids have contributed plenty. At first it was like structured conversation, but has evolved into a give-and-take conversation. Would the child with ASD diagnosis like to talk about Hockey?

Well, this just points up one of the fundamental differences in the Autistic thought process - I don't know about your boy, but personally, I don't care whether others get excited about my accomplishments or not. I know when I've performed up to my own expectations and when I haven't and I set my own bar very high. So praise from others often seems pathetically insincere to me, if whatever I'm being complimented on is in my opinion less than it should have been.

If it's a good example of my best work, I don't need the approval of those I don't think really grasp the standard of excellence to begin with.

All the years I spent entertaining audiences as a broadcaster, I didn't need or expect listeners to call me on the studio line to tell me when a bit I did killed - I had my own sense of what would work and what wouldn't, and comedy is a rhythm I do understand, so if something worked, I knew it worked and when it didn't, because of a stumble or a misfire that blew the timing, I knew that, too (the hard lesson was learning to let the failures go and not beat myself up about them for hours or weeks afterward). The proof that my gut was on target were the quarterly ratings. If my sense of what worked had been consistently wrong, my ratings would have been sh*t and I'd have been in serious trouble. As many times as I got canned in my life, it was never for being bad at my job, or failing to keep an audience - it was generally my inability to live by other people's rules and accept the edicts of authority without challenge.

The point of that is, my sense of accomplishment was not fed by pats on the back, but by solid tangible achievement. So I suspect that if the young man's siblings don't praise him on his triumphs, he'll barely notice.

Last edited by Willard on 02 Apr 2010, 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.