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YippySkippy
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02 Dec 2011, 5:02 pm

I'm so angry right now.
My first-grader just got his report card. He did well in everything except ART and GYM. Yes, that's right, for some reason his art and gym teachers decided to give him bad grades. A six-year-old. In art and freaking gym class.
Let me tell you, my son has an (overly) outgoing personality. He loves school and does everything there with enthusiasm, so I know he's participating fully in these classes. Furthermore, he is kind (sometimes overly) so I know he's not poking kids with paintbrushes or anything like that. I feel he was given these arbitrary grades because his teachers find him personally annoying. I have already e-mailed both of them asking for some explanation, so we'll see what they have to say.
Am I wrong to think that there's no good reason why a first-grader should be given bad grades in art and gym? Is it crazy to think these teachers might be bullying him?



Sweetleaf
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02 Dec 2011, 5:12 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
I'm so angry right now.
My first-grader just got his report card. He did well in everything except ART and GYM. Yes, that's right, for some reason his art and gym teachers decided to give him bad grades. A six-year-old. In art and freaking gym class.
Let me tell you, my son has an (overly) outgoing personality. He loves school and does everything there with enthusiasm, so I know he's participating fully in these classes. Furthermore, he is kind (sometimes overly) so I know he's not poking kids with paintbrushes or anything like that. I feel he was given these arbitrary grades because his teachers find him personally annoying. I have already e-mailed both of them asking for some explanation, so we'll see what they have to say.
Am I wrong to think that there's no good reason why a first-grader should be given bad grades in art and gym? Is it crazy to think these teachers might be bullying him?


Unfortunatly no it is not crazy to think the teachers might be bullying him, but wait and see how they respond.....maybe there is a reason, though I find it hard to belive a 6 year old especially one like you just described deserved to fail Art and Gym. Also when I was a child I had a P.E teacher that didn't like me and sometimes gave me low grades because I was not as fast, flexible and physically fit as all the other kids.....so sometimes I got a accused of just being lazy which was not the case. but she even knew I could not control how flexable my body was or how many push ups I could do before getting too exausted to continue.


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Bombaloo
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02 Dec 2011, 5:38 pm

We got similar for DS in regards to PE class. Which I thought was kind of funny becasue he LOVES PE. They have PE twice a week and on those days, he is really excited to go to school. He just isn't able to follow instructions well so that is what the PE teacher said on his report (they don't actually give them grades until 3rd grade and DS is in K). Are the gym and art teachers aware of your son's diagnosis? It is HIGHLY possible that they have never been told so they just expect that your child is going to behave and react similar to the NT kids and when that expectation is not met, they are just jumping to the conclusion that he is mis-behaving on purpose. Unless I knew for a fact that they were informed about your child's particular situation and had been given proper instruction of what accomodations shoud be made for him then I would be more likely to think that the bad grades are more related to ignorance than to bullying. If you aren't sure if they are informed, that is where I would start.

On the other hand, if they have been informed and are choosing to ignore what they should be doing or are just not competent, that is another matter entirely. If a direct conversation with the teacher doesn't get you anywhere, I'd go to the principal with your concerns. No child needs to get a "bad grade" in anything at that age if they are honestly doing the best they can.



lovemywes
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02 Dec 2011, 5:52 pm

my son used to get NE (needs improvement) in art and gym in first grade and it was explained to me that the grades are based on participation. He was off doing his own thing or not really following directions is why they gave him that grade. I hope you get some reasonable answers back :)



DW_a_mom
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02 Dec 2011, 6:19 pm

I do NOT think "grades" at this age are appropriate, period, because the children aren't able to do the math behind the rubric. And if there is no math behind the rubric to understand then, well, the grade is largely arbitrary, isn't it?

Our elementary only grades on "progressing towards standards," "meets standards," and I don't remember the wording on the others, which are varying degrees of not making adequate progress towards the standards. And you get that mark for every skill subset, so you know EXACTLY what your child should be working on. In grades 4 and 5 they introduce letter grades, but they are more to get the kids familiar with how grades will work in middle school than anything official.

Middle and high school PE here grade on dressing properly, being on time, and participating. Do all that, you get an A. They want to make sure that kids of all skill levels feel encouraged to keep moving, and don't learn to hate PE just because they are not athletic. I actually feel bad for the athletic kids who don't always get A's under this system, feeling it can be a lot like why my brilliant scientific son couldn't get A's in science in middle school (he'd forget to turn in notes when asked, etc), but it works well for most AS kids.

The hardest thing for my son in PE was getting changed fast enough, because getting changed meant the sneakers had to come off and back on, and he had trouble tying the laces. We bought some of the bungee laces they sell for triathletes to resolve that issue. Do consider if something like that is going on.

As for art - I was really discouraged when my son's middle school English teacher consistently assigned 10% of the points to "artistic impression" for the drawings, etc. she asked the kids to include with their assignments. My son has very minimalistic taste, not to mention a physical issue in his hands, and never could make things "colorful" and "neat" enough to get a fair share of those points. I found that rubric to be ridiculous and told the school so, but never really made good progress against it. We eventually let it go because he was pulling solid B's, and it wasn't like that one change would pull him up to an A, but I still think it is just "wrong."

Definitely find out what the rubrics are and determine if additional supports or IEP items may be necessary.


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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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02 Dec 2011, 6:32 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
. . . I feel he was given these arbitrary grades because his teachers find him personally annoying. . .

You may have hit the nail on the head. He may be participating, just in his own way. If the teachers don't understand it, they tend to classify it as him being "bad."

PS I AM NOT A PARENT. Am a pretty good guy :D and have lived life on the spectrum.



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02 Dec 2011, 8:26 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
... Am I wrong to think that there's no good reason why a first-grader should be given bad grades in art and gym?

In my opinion, yes. The reasons first-graders get bad grades in any class include, but are not limited to: (1) they may not be performing as well as the rest of the students in that class (if being graded "On The Curve"); (2) they may not be performing up to scholastic standards (if being graded "On Merit"); or (3) they may have issues other than scholastic performance in those classes (bullying by other students, performance anxiety, clumsiness and poor dexterity, et cetera).

YippySkippy wrote:
Is it crazy to think these teachers might be bullying him?

In my opinion, no. However, one must not assume that any bullying is taking place before discussing the matter with the teachers, your child, the school's principal, and the school psychologist (if they have one - many don't). Even if bullying is taking place, it may be from the other students in those classes, and not the teachers.

I think you're being a good mom, by the way.


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OliveOilMom
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02 Dec 2011, 8:39 pm

Those are more easygoing classes with easier or no academic teaching from what my kids have had in them. It could be more of a conduct grade than an actual work grade.

Is there an extra grade for conduct?

I always got horrible conduct grades, even though I got high academic grades. I have AS. My kids are NT, but my boys both got horrible conduct grades always. My girls did good in both, my oldest boy did good academically but horrible in conduct and my younger boy does bad in both because he won't do the work. He passes barely by acing the tests but he won't ever turn in homework, and now that he is 16, we can't really sit on him anymore and make him, as he's dropping out in March and getting his GED and going to college.

Maybe he's just overactive in there or won't sit still, etc? Mine have gotten bad conduct reports, or paddeling, etc, for talking back, talking in class, etc. I once failed conduct for sitting with my knee under me in my desk, partially standing up. I felt that it met the criteria for sitting, but allowed me the freedom to hold my body in the position that was comfortable for me. I was wrong.

Those classes also aren't very structured and sometimes they ask you to do your own thing, when you have absolutely no "own thing" relating to that subject. So, it's difficult. Or impossible.

Before you go off on the teachers, find out what they meant with the grades.

I can't see failing gym unless you just refuse to try anything at all, even a little bit, or art because unless you are taking it in college, I wouldn't think it actually matters to any real world employment, like art history majors.

Frances



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03 Dec 2011, 5:33 am

I would think you are being paranoid. Try not to jump to the worse conclusions without getting the story. Only way I can see how a child do bad in PE and art is if they don't participate and do what the teacher says or if they tease other kids and not stop when they tell them to.

I think emailing them asking for an explanation was a good move.



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03 Dec 2011, 11:00 am

League_Girl wrote:
I would think you are being paranoid. Try not to jump to the worse conclusions without getting the story. Only way I can see how a child do bad in PE and art is if they don't participate and do what the teacher says or if they tease other kids and not stop when they tell them to.

I think emailing them asking for an explanation was a good move.


and sometimes they are the one getting teased and just aren't very good at the activities required for P.E class, I mean its certainly not good to just jump to that conclusion........but that was my experiance I would get lower grades regardless of how much I participated because I could not do as much as the other kids.


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03 Dec 2011, 12:22 pm

I think its insane as DW says that they are grading art and PE at that young of an age, is this a public school?

Also League girl I understand you have a young baby (your first) and you are being told not to worry about things and trying to pass this on to others but its not nice to call a mother paranoid. We get enough of that from doctors, overbearing mothers (and mothers-in-laws or other nosy and know-it-all family members) and even some teachers. It is our job as parents of children with special needs to stick up for them, not to freak out but to definitely ask what is going on. My son is very hard on himself and he is 9, if he got bad grade in art he probably would never draw again. We already went through major issues in his last school because he has dyslexia and dysgraphia along with his Aspergers. He had an aide and instead of trying to help him she would just do his work for him so the other kids were calling him stupid and picking on him. He is doing so much better in his new school this year that is geared for kids with ASD's and other LD's.
I would definitely ask (not email, let them see your face) what a 6 year old could possibly do to get a bad grade in art....color out of the lines? Please! Also what could he be doing in PE not kicking the ball right? This is nuts! As you say he does not have discipline issues so something does not sound right to me. Also I was bullied by teachers, especially by PE teachers due to the fact that I was not athletic and I actually couldnt kick or catch a ball. I have that problem that when people throw things to me I cover my head or put up my hands in defense. My Psychiatrist explained that to me he says it has to do with the way my eyes track moving objects.
Even when I was a kid (Im 44) we were only "graded" as participating or not in art, PE and chorus. We were not graded until Middle School.



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03 Dec 2011, 1:39 pm

Fnord wrote:
YippySkippy wrote:
... Am I wrong to think that there's no good reason why a first-grader should be given bad grades in art and gym?

In my opinion, yes. The reasons first-graders get bad grades in any class include, but are not limited to: (1) they may not be performing as well as the rest of the students in that class (if being graded "On The Curve"); (2) they may not be performing up to scholastic standards (if being graded "On Merit"); or (3) they may have issues other than scholastic performance in those classes (bullying by other students, performance anxiety, clumsiness and poor dexterity, et cetera).
.


You may not be familiar with the current emphasis on organization and follow instructions (as in, putting your name on the paper EXACTLY where the teacher said to, even if it ruins your picture) so I'll add:

(4) Makes changes to assignments that seem logical and acceptable to the child, but are not what the instructor was looking for (in PE that could be skipping instead of running; in art it could drawing a real dinosauer instead of copying a sample).

(5) Doesn't turn things in on time and gets zeros, and this, to my shock, includes things done in class that the teacher saw get done!

Which is why I say grades are unfair if the child is not old enough to understand the math in the rubric. When that crap is 30 to 50 percent of a grade, as it often is, you can do all the work and have a good grasp of the material, and yet still fail the course.

I think talking to the teachers, asking how grades are derived, is very important.


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League_Girl
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03 Dec 2011, 2:14 pm

liloleme wrote:
I think its insane as DW says that they are grading art and PE at that young of an age, is this a public school?

Also League girl I understand you have a young baby (your first) and you are being told not to worry about things and trying to pass this on to others but its not nice to call a mother paranoid. We get enough of that from doctors, overbearing mothers (and mothers-in-laws or other nosy and know-it-all family members) and even some teachers. It is our job as parents of children with special needs to stick up for them, not to freak out but to definitely ask what is going on. My son is very hard on himself and he is 9, if he got bad grade in art he probably would never draw again. We already went through major issues in his last school because he has dyslexia and dysgraphia along with his Aspergers. He had an aide and instead of trying to help him she would just do his work for him so the other kids were calling him stupid and picking on him. He is doing so much better in his new school this year that is geared for kids with ASD's and other LD's.
I would definitely ask (not email, let them see your face) what a 6 year old could possibly do to get a bad grade in art....color out of the lines? Please! Also what could he be doing in PE not kicking the ball right? This is nuts! As you say he does not have discipline issues so something does not sound right to me. Also I was bullied by teachers, especially by PE teachers due to the fact that I was not athletic and I actually couldnt kick or catch a ball. I have that problem that when people throw things to me I cover my head or put up my hands in defense. My Psychiatrist explained that to me he says it has to do with the way my eyes track moving objects.
Even when I was a kid (Im 44) we were only "graded" as participating or not in art, PE and chorus. We were not graded until Middle School.



Well I used to get paranoid thinking people were treating me a certain way because I am different but I have learned to not jump to conclusions. Maybe it's all in my head, maybe they are just jerks and they treat everyone that way, sometimes I still think I am being treated a certain way because I am different but I also consider I could be wrong and I am just being paranoid. It's common in people who are different to assume they are being treated a certain way because they are different.

Like I say, it's good that she emailed the teacher. You don't want to jump to conclusions thinking he is being bullied or singled out. It's easy to make that assumption when you are special needs or your child without getting the story first. She did ask for an opinion and I gave it to her.



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03 Dec 2011, 4:18 pm

When I was in elementary school (late 80s/early 90s), we got "graded" on art and PE with either "satisfactory" or "unsatisfactory."

I usually got "unsatisfactory" in art and PE.

Here's why:

In PE, I wasn't good at catching balls. When we were forced to do gymnastics (walking on a balance beam, performing handstands, attempting flips) I couldn't do most of the activities, or I did them poorly on account of lousy motor control. On a few occasions, I refused to try because I knew I couldn't do it and would only end up hurting myself. I also had trouble following verbal instructions and remembering the rules of whatever games were playing. The PE teachers decided that I just wasn't trying hard enough and was therefore not "participating."

In art, the goal was to follow instructions and make your project look exactly the same as the others. It also involved a lot of cutting and pasting, which is tedious and sticky. Let's just say I preferred to do my own thing. :wink:

I think it's time to advocate for your little guy. He's getting screwed.


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03 Dec 2011, 5:09 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
When I was in elementary school (late 80s/early 90s), we got "graded" on art and PE with either "satisfactory" or "unsatisfactory."

I usually got "unsatisfactory" in art and PE.

Here's why:

In PE, I wasn't good at catching balls. When we were forced to do gymnastics (walking on a balance beam, performing handstands, attempting flips) I couldn't do most of the activities, or I did them poorly on account of lousy motor control. On a few occasions, I refused to try because I knew I couldn't do it and would only end up hurting myself. I also had trouble following verbal instructions and remembering the rules of whatever games were playing. The PE teachers decided that I just wasn't trying hard enough and was therefore not "participating."

In art, the goal was to follow instructions and make your project look exactly the same as the others. It also involved a lot of cutting and pasting, which is tedious and sticky. Let's just say I preferred to do my own thing. :wink:

I think it's time to advocate for your little guy. He's getting screwed.


I agree!!

I told the art teacher that the reason he hates art is that she expects the outcome to be perfect and look just like hers, and that the projects were too advanced for the age group anyway. Not to mention the smells, gooey, sticky stuff. Forget about it!

PE is torture for a kid with physical planning issues and poor visual-spatial skills. Why torture them?!



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03 Dec 2011, 5:20 pm

Children should learn as soon as possible that the work they do will be graded according to the standards that other people accept, because this process will affect every aspect of their lives until they retire, and maybe even beyond. The longer the experience of being graded is delayed, the more objectionable the first instance will seem.

Children shouldn't remain children forever.


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