Questioning my judgment vs. NT spouse

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My NT wife makes a number of demands of my AS diagnosed son that don't make sense to me.

I understand that she never gets passionately interested in things (aka obsesses over them) the way I do, but since our son was diagnosed I have been devouring information about AS and parenting for AS. I see that she is frustrated with things that he does that I don't think he can rally do anything about and she tells me that I am wrong--he just needs to be given enough demands, punishments etc. and he will change.

When I say that I don't think it's true because I think the specific issues are related to neurological differences (e.g., his poor motor skills and consequent dislike of sports) she says that I don't understand because my perspective is warped by my childhood and my own issues with my autistic traits. I think she needs to learn more about it, on the other hand, I know I can't monologue to her about it or make her read as much as I have or listen to all the interviews I have collected about AS and autism...

I don't know. I feel pretty sure, for example, that he is just not going to like basketball, ever. She thinks if he spends a lot of time practicing, he will come round and take pleasure in what he now hates. This sounds like a recipe for a very unhappy boy, to me. But I feel unsure. Maybe she is right? I also think of Temple Grandin and Fnord (from WP) and the attitude I see from both of them quite frequently--something like "shut up and deal with it."

I sort of think he would be better off spending more time on programming and animation skills, since he has a passion for them, but I second guess myself. I don't know. Which approach is a better way of shutting up and dealing with it? Concentrating on strengths (computer skills) or struggling to overcome weaknesses (sports).

Does anyone have this kind of parenting issue and self-doubt as they work on parenting with an NT partner?

Yeah, that doesn't work. I was raised the same, and ended up dealing with an enormous amount of anxiety from it. I don't see a love of basketball coming from constant drills in it. What about an 80/20 approach? 80% of developing his natural talents, and 20% having some exposure to other areas? Don't second guess yourself, because your son needs to have that person who "gets" him. Structure and expectations are good, but if your wife thinks she can drill the AS out of him..bad.

Last edited by MjrMajorMajor on 02 May 2013, 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

On the rts,it might just be a matter of finding the right one. Maybe basketball and team sports aren't his thing, but maybe he would like golf or running. Something more solitary. Even swimming where yes, there is a TEAM but you are competing on your own. When I was a kid I HATED all things gym and sport related. Softball. Baseball. Anything. Looking back I think it is because at that age everything is social, everything is team based. When I got older and struck out on my own I came to realize that I LOVE physical activity. I love going to the gym. I love even taking classes. I love running. Looking back the thing that initially got me turned off of it was the social aspect, the team aspect.

If your primary concern is his long term health, which in my mind should be the primary concern when it comes to sports and fitness, try to find something that suits his personality and interests, then use it as a gateway if possible to other things. Ramming basketball down his throat will just push him further and further away from all sports in general. Instead find something he likes. There is something for everyone whether it is weight lifting, yoga, karate, dance, running, or basketball. Lots of options.

My husband is not NT (He is ADD with some Aspie traits thrown in there) but I am not at all ADD, so we do have different styles. We both like sports, though my husband likes them more, because they are one of his very strong special interests. My son is very bad at sports. He has very poor motor planning skills. My son has little interest in sports. We do not make him play sports. We do take him to the park for exercise, and my husband will play catch with him.

We do take him to games so he can learn reciprocity (that other people in the family get to do things they like) but we try to incorporate his special interests (like numbers and math) into it. If he were unhappy, we would stop taking him. We try to make it fun. He doesn't necessarily follow the game, but he wants our respective teams to win, and he likes the scoreboard stuff, and the numbers, and as we get into statistics he might like that.

I don't know if that helps you at all, but I guess what I am trying to say is that making compromises is really important. My husband would love to go to more games than we do, but we try to strike a balance between everyone's interests. We are all very special interest oriented and they don't always line up, well. That is OK. Kids are not supposed to be a parent's "mini-me."

If I may ask, why does your wife particularly insist on basketball? Does she make him play a sport every season? I can understand why she wants him to get exercise. My son is very indoorsy and would stay inside the house all day if he could. We try to strike a balance, just to be in healthy habits, and so maybe he will get better at throwing or something and stand out less for his poor motor skills. But we make it fun.

Would your wife be amenable to changing from basketball to something physical that he might like, that you could tie into a special interest? Is she insistent on a team sport for socialization and teamwork? If so, I would try to convince her that finding something organized and interest-based (Like a Mindstorms club or something, depending on interests) would be more likely to result in real friend acquisition as opposed to just hanging with kids who like sports when he doesn't.

When I started with upper basic school (Age 10-14) I was one of the worst in gym in my class. I went to additional to our normal gym lessons once a week to a basketball group and a acrobatic group. So after 4 years of this I still was one of the worst in the basketball group and the acrobatic group and in my normal gym class I made it to be average. (Upon my classmates who did not visit basketballgroup and acrobatic group.)

The thing that makes me think, what your wife does is useless: I went to basketball and acrobatic group out of my own because I had fun doing so. (Our teachers were luckily not much into competition.) So yes, if you train your physical skills they will get better, but in comparison to others that train as much as you, you may always lack skill and it will cost you more time. Being able not to suceed ever is absolutely ok if you are doing the sport out of fun. But if you are forced to do something, where everyone else always will be better and you will always suck in comparison to others, it sounds horrible to me.

I mean I approve, that if your boy lack physical skills, that you work a bit with him on that, for his own advantage. But there are thousend possibilities to do sports, so why does it have to be something he dislikes?




From my experiences: Noone will ever give a weirdo that can do a job "acceptable" when he can hire an NT, that can do the job well. So when it comes to school and job, I would concentrate on strenghts. Doesnt mean, you should totally ignore your weaknesses (so as example I am engineer and from now and then I am forced to crawl on ladders .... and its good to have at least a basic feeling of balance to do so) but I have focused on my strenghts, and had good experiences with it. Socially I am horrible. Luckily my computer is not interested in it.

Last edited by Schneekugel on 02 May 2013, 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

I was the same way, CWA.

The one physical thing I liked was biking, and later swimming, but not athletically--not bike racing, not swimming competitively. Not at all. And the truth is, whatever I tried, I sucked at. I was the last chosen for every team, always, and with good reason.

I began to like physical things when I was in my late twenties and I took a martial arts class because I wanted to have some ability to defend myself. I was surprised to find that I loved it and was good at it. I think this was somehow because my motor skills continued to develop--this was a developmental delay and I was getting at 26 what other people had when they were in elementary school... or possibly this was a case of my body learning ways to workaround my weird neurology and find alternative pathways that allowed me to be reasonably good at physical things and take real pleasure in them.

I don't know if I could possibly have enjoyed the same activities when I was younger. I tend to think not. I just would have sucked at another thing.

This is the opinion of a very bitter person. Please bear that in mind. It may be right, it may be wrong.

Swallow any opinion you have and go along with your wife. However much you and the child may hate it, she has his best interests at heart.

Take it from an autistic woman who was not diagnosed or treated until adulthood, who grew up with the perception that she was perfectly OK, just different, and allowed (at least from 12 on) to be herself within the bounds of reason.

I'm not any happier than the younger folks that were diagnosed in childhood and put through ABA and forced to conform.

I've achieved more in my life than most of them will ever be encouraged to try...

...and I bitterly regret most of my achievements.

Whether that's because autistics really should be forced to conform and encouraged to lead very rigid, very narrow, very restricted and limited lives, or whether that's because I still managed to internalize the "You are broken, you are bad" rhetoric from childhood bullying and trying to read up on high-functioning autism back in the late '90s, I cannot tell you. There is no control group...

...but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that my life and relationships were fraught with problems even when I liked myself, and have no reason to believe (based on high school and college) that I could ever have handled stress and conflict well enough to hold more than the most menial of jobs.

No, it really isn't that she insists on basketball at all--I think she likes it, and wants to share that pleasure with him, so that's part of it, but he also has done soccer, fencing and capoeira. Now he does capoeira and enjoys that, though he often says he does not and complains about it. The thing is, he is happy when he comes back from class, so that's fine. But she wants to keep trying with basketball, when it is clear to me that he tried, enjoyed playing with the ball, found that he could not enjoy playing with teams and wanted out. I just don't see that changing ever.

My beloved, intelligent, beautiful and caring wife has actually acknowledged that, and thinks maybe he should try fencing again, because that is not a team sport--but I remember that he hated being beaten by younger kids with more skill and more aggression... so I don't think that will work, either. She is rightly worried about his general health, having seen that he is completely capable of spending nine hours in front of a computer, if we let him. I am thinking I need to get a bike and just go for rides with him, that would be good for both of us. I don't see that getting a kid to coach him in basketball practice is going to do anything but frustrate him. I think she is thinking along the lines of CWA, though--if she can just help him find the pleasure in it, he will flourish.

He has an amazing muscular response to exercise--doing capoeira twice a week last spring gave him six pack abs! A family first! But the coordination thing is still there, and he is angry that other people come into class and in a short time can do things that he still struggles with.
I think it will all work out in time--because of my experience sort of growing into my physical being, waaaay late.

So it is a special interest of your wife's then? I see. It may take her a little time. I think my husband grieved a bit knowing that my son will probably not ever want to play organized sports. (My husband was not a big jock on campus, but it was a way to satisfy the PE requirement and it was an experience he enjoyed)

The way you describe your wife, I think she will come around. It may just sadden her a little because it is something she would love to share with him.

I am the (mostly) NT one of the parents in our house and oddly enough, I am the one who constantly reads about AS, parenting kids with AS, how to survive IEP meetings for your kid with AS, etc. I have found myself thinking that my DH (undiagnosed but definitely Aspie) should just suck it up but I don't think that about our son with AS. I am starting to realize that I should give my DH more allowances like I do with our son and that I should try to be more understanding of the fact that, just like with our son, he cannot just suck it up sometimes. You are facing the same dilemma that many of us face which is the question of when/how much to push our AS kiddos and when to back off. From what you have said, I think your wife is pushing too hard.

On the one hand, AS kids have different limitations than NT kids do and what sometimes appears to be "won't" is actually "can't". That needs to be respected. Pushing a child to do something that they simply cannot do is damaging. period. Of course sometimes "can't" is "can't yet" not "can't ever". Something that we think our kid should be able to do at his current chronological age, he is just not ready for yet. I would suggest, try it and if you meet a lot of resistance set it aside for a while and try again in 6 months or a year.

On the other hand, if we never push our AS kiddos, they are not likely to ever venture out of their comfort zone on their own. I think strong encouragement is needed sometimes. Gradually working up to some activity by taking little steps towards it seems to work for many kids. We've tried some sports activities with DS (now 7 yo) and none of them have worked. Unlike some of the other posters, he is fairly well coordinated and seems to like the concept of participating in a sport, he just cannot tolerate the execution (yet?). I think that the way to support expansion of the comfort zone is by using preferred activities to balance out the anxiety that might be generated during a non-preferred activity. It need not be an either-or thing. For example, if he spends 5 minutes practicing dribbling the basketball (or any physical activity he chooses), then he gets 45 mins of time to spend on the computer, programming and doing animation. You can gradually increase the amount of time spent on the physical activity and the skills involved in it.

I guess after saying all that, the message that comes through for me is that we all need to find a balance between doing things we like in our comfort zone and pushing the boundaries a little bit. For our well-being, we need the comfort zone activities and for continued growth, we need to push or be pushed a little to do new things. AS kids, well my AS kid anyway, needs that balance to be more heavily weighted in the comfort zone area so that he can maintain and cope with the non-comfort zone activities.

Curiously, though I have read enough of your posts now to have some idea that your initial disclaimer is important, and I am generally more optimistic about many aspects of life than you seem to be, this is my general approach.

When in doubt, I assume that she is right.

This rule has served me well. However, I am pretty sure that there are cases with our son where she just does not want to see that he is up against a wall. He can't do more than he is doing and she tells him to "suck it up."

"I hate that phrase," he said to me. He meant it, too. His tone was angry. "It's disgusting."

I agree, and I feel a deep harmony in me with what he is saying. I hate being told I am not trying hard enough when I have pushe myself to exhaustion.

But I do doubt myself and I do give her the benefit of the doubt, whenever there is a question.

[edited to add:]



I don't think she is imagining that she can drill the AS out of him (or just a little bit), but I don't the she has really gotten to grips with what AS means.

It's small things--for example, last night I was helping my son with a writing assignment upstairs and she called from downstairs wanting me to come and talk with her--it turned out that all she wanted was to tell me that she thought our daughter had not had enough to drink that day and make sure she had a glass of water. She did not understand why I was upset that she had interrupted the writing exercise in order to pass trivial information... We talked about it again this morning and I explained that when I am in the middle of a long multistep explanation with my son, and I get interrupted, it takes a long time to get back to where we were--neither of us is good at that, so the message about the water ended up putting a 10 minute hole in our work on the writing assignment.

This is a thing she does not really understand about me or my son. We are just not that flexible in that way.

I'm an NT mom with a relatively aspie hubby and clearly aspie son. I'm the researcher of the family, plus the chief handler of my son - including homeschooling. As much as I know about what he is like, what works well, and what is Aspergers, I cannot hold his perspective and think like him all the time. It is quite difficult. My husband can't either, BTW.

So I think that BECAUSE it is so difficult to think like you and your son, it is extremely important for your wife to meet in the middle a bit better.

I actually have a similar problem but the other way around, I'm the NT parent and I am trying to parent my AS DD5 differently to allow for her problems but my AS husband still wants her to just get over some of her problems. For example she is getting more anxious about going to visit family, I think we should lay off her a bit and not make her go if she doesn't want to, family should respect this and make alternative arrangements, but husband just thinks she's being ungrateful and continues trying to convince her to go :/

I would think if you and your son have AS in common you should be considered a window into his frame of mind, you are an adult with similar issues so your wife should be listening to you and your thoughts on how your son may be feeling. If she thinks she is going to change your son, and possibly you too then she will have a real battle on her hands and its only going to make her more stressed. She needs to relax about it for her own sake as much as everyone else in the family

I hope you find a way around this problem.

More experiences:

When I was a teen I was obsessed about computers. I could spent whole nights programming, I didn't use commercial programs or games, I did my own ones.

Then my father decided that I had to focus in my weaknesses and overcome them. I wanted to do a degree in IT. That was forbidden. I even regirstered secretly. I was punished because of that.

So, years later, which is the outcome of all this?. I never highlighted in my career, since NTs are obviously better. I have been dealing for years with lots of anxiety, trying to be good in something I was never meant to, and at the same time knowing that time is passing and I had talent that was underused, seeing how people much less talented were overunning me.

I could have had a great professional degree and a wealthy economical status. I will never have them.

Of course, your kid needs a minimum of socializing and sport, just because it's unhealthy not to. But let him focus in his strengths, be good at them, be happy with them, feel fullfilled doing something he loves and make money because how good he'll be at it. Let your wife know that if she keeps pushing, your kid won't be only unhappy, he'll be unhappy and poor.

You cant force a person to like something they aren't interested in whether they are AS, NT or otherwise. Its just not going to work. I'm sure its much more productive to allow him to concentrate on something he enjoys like computer programming which will probably end up his career.

If there's one thing I've learned from parenting an Aspie, and parenting in general, it's flexibility. Team sports in youth serve an important purpose, but if your child hates basketball, I don't see more basketball as turning it around. I can just imagine how it would go down with my kid

Someone asked before, but what is it about basketball? Is there another sport he can try? Or maybe he can do something else to get the benefits? My kid is learning a lot about winning and losing from the chess club, and he likes to run so he gets his exercise from that (and stimming LOL). Key for him is that he needs to succeed on his own and never feels invested in any team.

Sounds like your wife needs to do some reading about autism. Do you have a pediatrician or therapist you like? Might be worth posing the question to that person, that way it's less wife vs. husband and may help her see it more clearly.

Good luck,