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Fine. Deleted.

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Can't say I approve of telling us all this. For one thing, it's boilerplate school drama, none of our business and there is no moral distinction between your son and his non-churchgoing friends. Lying never helps anyone, but I think you're jumping the gun here linking it to ASD. The more social pressure is applied to someone, the more they'll direct their emotions and reactions inward. Try acting less scared.

edit: I should add that I can't forsee any social consequences for your son as a result of such hearsay, but there's always the possibility. I'm afraid you may have written enough to infer his identity.

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Of course it's no one's business. Just desperate for help. Deleted only because I'd hate for him to see this. Guess I'll do some reading up. thanks

And let me just say the boy has serious social issues that I'm confident is Aspergers (I can give you a list of characteristics since birth if you like). Regardless....his inability to communicate in the way his peers do is causing some very serious self esteem issues.

What a shame you deleted your post because of one reply that made you doubt yourself. You could have amended/removed any identifying factors and still asked your question, I'm sure other members would have given you some insights and advice that could have helped.

I thought cberg was a little hard on you -- I saw the original post, and while I didn't have advice or time to reply at that moment, and I didn't think it was out of line with the other questions parents ask each other here on the parenting section of the forum. I think the parents here could give the OP some tips on how to view and handle the situation in a way that would be helpful to her son, and the adults with ASD who read this section could provide insight on how her son may perceive things.

I agree with Whirlingmind; I would have liked to see the post, even if I most certainly would have understood if you had looked back and wanted to edit it (general statement; did not see the deleted post). You have about a week for that.

Our members here are blunt, but no one holds the one true answer to any specific situation. I think we all need to see a full spectrum of responses before deciding what most closely applies in the actual situation. Each one is a possibility, but since none of us are party to a situation, they are all just that: possibilities. We all end up learning so much just from the discussion that we can take into different situations with different variables.

I did not see the original post, but I have had a good deal of experience with school drama. From both my daughter's perspective (early elementary) and my son's (middle school). I'd like to help if the OP could reconsider sharing what the issue is.

Sorry I deleted the entire post. I did it mainly because I don't want him to see it...though I don't know how he would. I'm definitely a little emotional right now and since I believe ds is an undiagnosed aspie, I thought maybe I could get some guidance here as to how to talk with him. Back story...he's shown signs of being aspergers since a baby (read by 2, knew countries-composers, capitols, states by 3/4, seizures, alphabetized things, SID, stimming, flat affect, socially a loner, etc) . Had him tested by school, but they found nothing.

Anyway, he wrote to a friend about hurting himself over a girl and just not being liked in general.u I think maybe he thought he and the girl were together when they never were. So he misinterpreted her words, etc (typical confusing teen girl here possibly). Cberg told me to act less afraid, but I totally disagree. I want DS to know that that isn't something you say jokingly, etc. We feel sick over this. He spoke with a therapist (barely) and said that he did mean it, but is fine now. I had NO idea he was distraught. He was doing his usual activities the day he wrote it and seemed fine. He's never liked answering questions about school and is always very vague. He also has some serious trouble with lying (which I thought had stopped)...not only probably to us, but to friends/acquaintances about his life. By the way, I see kids greet him at school, but there isn't a bond. He'll even chat with kids after school, but that's as far as it goes. No one comes over. I think we are a great family. Not perfect, but loving and involved in eachothers lives.

It's hard that he's undiagnosed because he struggles enough socially to stand out. He's the kid that slips between the cracks. I'm not sure if a label would help or hurt not anyway.

Regardless....How in the world do I know if he's ever feeling this way again? I gave him words to say to me (or his dad) if he's feeling bad, so we would know he needs to talk or needs help. I don't know if he'll do it. Since this has happened he's become very cranky and argumentative (understandably so) and I don't know how to know if he's ok.

I get that this post is beyond issues discussed here, but I guess I need to know how to deal with a teenage aspie.
Thanks everyone for being willing to help.

No, I think your post fits in well with what is posted here. My son is much younger than yours, yet is very similar in some ways I think. He has not have had seizures and does not have a flat affect, but everything else rings a bell. Are you sure he is lying, rather than just engaging in wishful thinking or fantasizing? (I didn't see the original post, which based on subsequent commentary seemed to be about the lying incident. Sometimes an aspie's perspective is not accurate and what looks clearly false to us, is not false to them. My son son thinks he has friends, but does not, and calls the kids at school his friends because that is what they were taught in kindergarten. Alternately, f your son lied to other kids and misrepresented himself, he may have imitated what other kids say, to fit in. NT kids do this regularly; they are just better at it. Also aspies with good coping skills, will tell people it school they have weekend plans or other things so they don't look "lame." I would not consider this bad b/c it is a self-esteem thing, and kids ask each other what their plans are, and it is awkward to say you have none. It makes you look bad, and makes you feel badly. I used to lie about that all the time in school, and I am a neurotically honest person most of the time.

If my son's issues did not leek into behavioral issues, I doubt he would be diagnosed or would have gotten any help despite being very socially impaired b/c unless the kid is an issue for the school, they are not proactive, at least not here. So, I can see where you could have a very socially impaired son, who fell through the cracks.

Communication is tough for them anyway, and then add to that the tween/teen years and it is rough. It sounds like you laid a good foundation with him, so that is a plus. I would not undervalue that. Can you have conversations with him about emotions? (My son resisted that for a long time, will do it, but hates it, and will probably not want to when older, is why I ask) If your son allows this, I would be honest and say that you are worried about him, and you would like him to try to remember that you are there to help him, whenever he has a problem, no matter what it is, and see if you can engage him. Beyond that, I don't know what else you can do. I don't know how you found out about what he wrote to his friend, but evidently you do have an avenue to get information. Use it wisely, as you do not want him to not trust you. It could be he was being melodramatic. It could be that he did feel like that. It could be he still doesn't know how he felt.

Hopefully parents with older ones who have traveled this way will post and give you more specific information than I can.

I agree with ASDMommy...I don't see the content of this post as any different than a lot of the other things we have shared with each other.

I'm still not exactly sure what the original post was, or what specifically might help, so I'll just share some thoughts that came to mind...

I'm not sure what was going on with the lying, but from my experience, there are two things that I would like to share. One is that until the past few months, my son almost never lied. Sometimes the things he would say would potentially sound untruthful, but they were truthful to him. He just has a hard time interpreting other people's intentions and so he can have inaccurate impressions of what is happening. The second thing is that he has recently started lying, but for him, it is not the same as lying in other kids (at least I don't think it is). For example, he might tell his teacher that he did his math homework but left it in his locker. The truth is that he didn't do it, but he is embarrassed because he forgot to do it and he doesn't want his teacher to know he forgot, so he thinks the best solution to the problem is to tell his teacher it is in his locker and his plan is that he will do it during lunch and then bring it in. He isn't trying to get out of trouble. He is embarrassed. He is embarrassed because he feels he should be able to do the things that the other kids his age do. So he tries to cover it up. Honestly, I don't fault him for that. He is trying to find a way to survive and since the deck is stacked against him, I actually approve of the fact that he is trying to find a way to work within the constraints given to him, even though I don't approve of the fact that he is lying. But he's trying to find a way...and he needs to do that to be successful in life. That's what I've done...found a way to work within my neurological constraints...and that's what all atypical people need to do.

Actually, this sense of embarrassment is causing him more and more problems. When people approach him about something that is missing or done incorrectly, he has developed a tendency to blow up at them, which is totally out of character for him. For a while I couldn't figure it out, and he couldn't explain what was happening. He just said he felt filled with anger and sometimes he had a hard time keeping it in. Then one day he realized he was angry at himself. He knows he's supposed to do his homework. He knows he's supposed to write his assignments down. He knows he is supposed to turn things in. And when these things don't happen and someone questions him about it, he feels anger/rage. At himself. Because he gets "sick and tired" of himself and gets overwhelmingly frustrated that he repeatedly does not do what he knows he is supposed to do. It makes him feel even more different from his peers because he sees that they all do these things consistently. And he gets mad because he tells himself he will do better/try harder/etc. yet he still keeps having the same problems. The thing that is tough for him right now is the explanation that he has executive functioning deficits that are not his fault and not under his direct control is not working as well anymore. Because this makes him even more angry because he wishes it was something that he could fix by simply trying harder, and he realizes that although he can learn ways to cope, he will never be "fixed." He will always struggle. It makes him mad. So his behavior is much more explosive and his previously even-keeled temper has taken a hit.

Regarding how to get him to talk to you: I don't know what your relationship is like with him, but what has worked with my son is telling him that it is my job to help him as his mother. Sometimes I cannot tell when he needs help. And if he needs help and I am not giving it to him, then I am being a bad mom. He cannot stand the thought of me being a "bad mom" so it motivates him to tell me, even when he doesn't want to. Some might feel this is manipulative and I suppose it is, but I do think the end justifies the means. He needs to tell me when he needs help. If he is doing it just so I don't look bad, I don't care. At least I know when he needs help. The one outstanding issue is that sometimes I don't think he realizes he needs help when he needs it. I think he can get so caught up in his own...I don't know....internal state?....that he fails to even consider that he should tell me something.

Please stick around. This forum is a really good reference point.

Thanks so much for your responses. The original post wasn't too far off from this one.

I guess I'm wondering how to help him not misinterpret people (specifically girls), how to not feel so devastated with rejection and how to share with me (or someone safe/an adult) about his feelings. I found his message via a text he sent to a friend. The good thing is, he did share his feelings. Bad thing is, it was with a teen girl who could've easily shared that throughout the school and beyond. He was an open book, just potentially with the wrong person. Hope that makes sense and, regardless, I'm glad I found it.

As far as lying goes...it's more about his reality. He's lied online in a forum about his entire life. He didn't make it sound better. If anything, it was much worse. He's lied to a teacher (when he was younger) about my career (again, making it worse), said his grandmother had died, etc, etc. All done with a straight face. All of this I thought he'd outgrown until I read the text that said his cousin had committed suicide. No one in our family (or extended family) has done such a thing. He does say he lies occasionally at school because his life is boring. That would make sense to me. Not the other kind of lying. I hoped his comment to hurt himself was just an attempt to get sympathy, but he said he actually did feel that way at the time.

We speak very openly with him about everything and have given him the opportunity to speak. He doesn't really say how he feels much, but lately has mentioned being very tired (could be depression or hormones or maybe he is just tired!). He was VERY tired and strange acting the day after we discovered the text (probably embarrassed or still working through it all).

Lastly, I wonder if we should've pushed somehow getting a diagnosis. Your right that the school said it's tough to get a diagnosis if his symptoms don't interefere with school. However, he knows he's different. Would a label help or make it worse?

Again...thank you.

Overall, I would say the label has helped us. We are at an awkward stage now where I think he feels anger for having a diagnosis, but it's not the diagnosis he is angry with. It is the knowledge that he will always have to work harder, and probably not experience as much success. My son has actually shared with me that he thinks I should tell my daughter her diagnosis. He does think it is better that way. She has yet to realize she is "different" so I am holding off for now.

It won't necessarily make it harder to get him a diagnosis, btw. It is just usually harder to get them help at school if they are doing OK without it. But getting the diagnosis is the first step to putting the school in a position where they have to help.

If he is awkward talking about his feelings don't approach it from an emotional perspective. He is more likely to respond to a logical approach. Treat it matter-of-factly and say something like "Right, what bothered you today - anything? I will help you find solutions for it. I can give you options and you can choose which one you feel best with, and if you need me to, I can explain why they are solutions and how they will work." If you get all endearing, plaintive, showing emotion in your face he is less likely to engage if he finds that type of approach awkward. Let's face it probably most teenage boys would be embarrassed at talking about touchy-feely stuff with their mums.

If he is on the spectrum, he may also have trouble identifying his feelings (alexithymia) so may feel awkward because he is unable to do so.

Regarding suicidal threats, it's always safest to take those seriously. Ask him directly "I know things can feel overwhelming and frustrating at times, they do for many of us, what makes you feel better when it gets like that?" or "have you thought about ways of letting out your frustrations and anger before they make you feel down? Let's go through what might help." And tell him there are always solutions and steps to take to improve things, no-one needs to feel alone or desperate or like there is no other way. You could also suggest that if he feels low and can't bring himself up, he could try medication to get him through.

It might help to buy him some social stories for teenagers or explain to him people can mean other things than what they say, and sometimes it's hard to know when people are joking or teasing. Give him some concrete examples of answers he can use on others and examples of types of things others might say to him and what they might mean. All he needs to develop is a critical perspective, not necessarily understand every single comment from others. If he has a critical perspective he will learn to automatically question what someone has said and whether they mean what it sounds like they mean. It's tough, but that's what it's like for us people on the spectrum. It is mentally exhausting and this is probably what his tiredness is about, all social contact is exhausting, the more people are involved the more exhausting it is. Conflicts are even more exhausting, and feeling down is exhausting too.

If he hasn't already got time-out strategies for himself such as going off to his room listening to music (or just sitting quietly zoning out) to be away from others, that would certainly help him de-stress from daily existential stresses.

I wouldn't be scared of a label. If you want to get him help and for him to be able to understand himself better a diagnosis will be very useful. But he needs to understand what it's about first, he is a teenager and needs control over it too, so I wouldn't push him into it even if you think it's best for him. If he's resistant, get him some information to read and let him think about it.

Ignore some of my comments I wrote on your other thread. Obviously your son wants to date, and I wrote a more general answer. I will edit when I remember.

Anyway, regarding the girl: I would tell him that he has to be careful about who he says what to. These days there is a lot that has to be said about oversharing, between Facebook and cell phones with cameras. Unfortunately he may not listen. Aspies are logical, as stated earlier in the thread, so I would try to approach it logically.

1) It is hard to know someone's true character.
2) Anything you share with any peer is more than likely going to be shared.
3)Once information is shared it can be spread far and wide.
4)Do not share things you are not comfortable being spread around.

This is a trial and error, thing. It always has been, even back when all kids did was pass notes in school about such and such liking so and so. Some of it is only mildly embarrassing, and some of it is worse.

The other thing is, he has to understand that liking someone doesn't mean the person will like him back. it is not the end of the world, and he shouldn't want anyone who does not want him. Kids have been not understanding this for time immemorial, too. So the only other thing is to tell him it will hurt, but he has to trust it will be OK. Also hard--even for NTs.

Regarding the lies: So he is lying to make it sound like his life is worse? I agree that it sounds like he is looking for attention and sympathy and not knowing how to get it. It is the only thing I can think of. Maybe try to ask him what he is trying to get out of it. "Boring," is usually a generic answer given even when there is something else behind it.

As a middle-schooler trying to fit in, he may reject a diagnosis b/c it will make him feel weird (although he may embrace it if he thinks it is "interesting.") but I don't necessarily think he can't get school help, even if they do not want to give it. If he is having organizational and sensory issues as well as social issues, you might get something. He also may need pragmatic language help.